DCC changed to CDC, and DCS to CDS

[Eclipse]

This alludes to my point about being asinine.   The SUI should be more focused on the fact that we have a competent individual doing the program not that he is a) appointed in writing and b) that his title on the org-chart is "deputy commander for cadets".

No argument there, but as someone who is in the military, you know these inspections are almost always around the objective
staff appointments, reports and other administraitvia, and rarely about the subjective of actually doing the job.

The entirety of both the SUI and CI falls into this category.   Having read reports from all over the country, not to mention my own and my wing's,
it's utterly disappointing how much credit people who do nothing, and have zero program get for filing a report that says "no activity", since the report
and not the activity, is the question.

[lordmonar]

This alludes to my point about being asinine.   The SUI should be more focused on the fact that we have a competent individual doing the program not that he is a) appointed in writing and b) that his title on the org-chart is "deputy commander for cadets".

No argument there, but as someone who is in the military, you know these inspections are almost always around the objective
staff appointments, reports and other administraitvia, and rarely about the subjective of actually doing the job.

The entirety of both the SUI and CI falls into this category.   Having read reports from all over the country, not to mention my own and my wing's,
it's utterly disappointing how much credit people who do nothing, and have zero program get for filing a report that says "no activity", since the report
and not the activity, is the question.

Yes......even in the big military we have a lot of asinine stuff we have to wade through.......but the bloody Number Air Force Commander did not have to sign off on a squadron commander's decision to move his Satcom Maintenance Office out of the Radio Branch and into the Networks Branch (SCD to SCE).  Nor did he have to get permission if he wanted to change the job title of one of his officers.

That the asinine part.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

In the same guide there is a requirement for an assigned Communications Officer. Would this discussion be different someone said we like Wireless Officer better?

In the same guide there is a requirement for an assigned Supply Officer. Would this discussion be different someone said we like Quartermaster better?

I suspect the Coast Guard Aux and the BSA don't have this issue.

[jimmydeanno]

The SUI guide does go on to ask if the assigned person does have a rating in said specialty. 

But I think the title could be argued both ways.

A unit needs to have someone who supervises the senior program & staff.  20-1 says that person in the CDS. 

Another unit has the same need for the stuff to get done but calls the person a "Chief of Staff."  Why doesn't squadron #2 just call their Chief of Staff the CDS and call it a day?

Also, why can't someone use the abbreviation of DCC for Deputy Commander for Cadets?  Just because the office symbol is CDC doesn't mean it can't be abbreviated DCC...

[Luis R. Ramos]

Also, why can't someone use the abbreviation of DCC for Deputy Commander for Cadets?  Just because the office symbol is CDC doesn't mean it can't be abbreviated DCC...

Because it causes confusion. It is far easier for me to refer in communications and type official correspondence if we use one and only one abbreviation for a position. It is much easier to train someone that may use or refer to that function in what amounts to be a part - time occupation. I have a Master rating in Admin and about ten years as Admin Officer. I would not be able, with all this experience, to remember "Ohh, I am writing non-official correspondence, so I'd better use DCC..." or "Ohh, I am writing official correspondence, now I have to switch to CDC."

Flyer

[UH60guy]

Also, why can't someone use the abbreviation of DCC for Deputy Commander for Cadets?  Just because the office symbol is CDC doesn't mean it can't be abbreviated DCC...

On that front, the problem is the military has too many acronyms as it is, many of which trickle down to CAP. When you use non-standard or unexpected ones it just gets even more confusing. At least this way there's a common reference for what they all mean, and I don't have to ask the author or speaker every time one is used.

[Eclipse]

In the same guide there is a requirement for an assigned Communications Officer. Would this discussion be different someone said we like Wireless Officer better?

In the same guide there is a requirement for an assigned Supply Officer. Would this discussion be different someone said we like Quartermaster better?

The 30's called, they want their terminology back...

In your example, the function is not changed, nor are their systemic issues, not the case in the XO vs CD question.  Different roles.

[Eclipse]

Also, why can't someone use the abbreviation of DCC for Deputy Commander for Cadets?  Just because the office symbol is CDC doesn't mean it can't be abbreviated DCC...

Because that abbreviation is in use elsewhere.

Plus, it's just a matter of what is proper - if yo don't know better, so be it.  Once you do, to insist on using incorrect terminology is either childish or lazy.

[lordmonar]

The SUI guide does go on to ask if the assigned person does have a rating in said specialty. 

But I think the title could be argued both ways.

A unit needs to have someone who supervises the senior program & staff.  20-1 says that person in the CDS. 

Another unit has the same need for the stuff to get done but calls the person a "Chief of Staff."  Why doesn't squadron #2 just call their Chief of Staff the CDS and call it a day?

Also, why can't someone use the abbreviation of DCC for Deputy Commander for Cadets?  Just because the office symbol is CDC doesn't mean it can't be abbreviated DCC...

The abbreviations for Deputy Commander for Cadets.....is DCC.......his OFFICE SYMBOL is CDC.

Again.....about the job titles.......If Squadron #1 has a Deputy Commander For Cadets....and Squadron #2 has a Cadet Programs Officer......you ask, why does not Squadron #2 just call him the Deputy Commander for Cadets......I humbly ask....why CAN"T he call him His Lord High Pubah....and Why must a squadron commander ask the Regional Commander for permission to do it? 

But I also am pointing out 20-1......is not just about duty titles....but also about organization.

Even if we keep the titles.......what happens when Squadron #2 wants to put his Admin officer under his Deputy Commander for Seniors?  Or his Character Development Officers under his Deputy Commander of Cadets instead of under the Chaplain? 

You have to ask the Region Commander for that?  Really?  And we are in danger of being a rogue unit out doing their own program and causing the end of the world?  Really?

Another question.   Some wings have groups and some don't.......it seems that 20-1 leave that up to the wing commander.
So a wing commander can create or disband on his own authority several units and greatly change the organization of his wing with out seeking permission from anyone.

But a squadron commander can't use a different organizational structure for his squadron with out Regional Commander Authority.
ASININE!

And let's look at the org chart.

The Commander of a Composite Squadron has direct Supervision over no less six offices/officers (assuming that some offices may be filled by the same officer.
But could have direct supervision over those six and up to Seven Special Services Officers.
Now.....standard rule of thumb says that that is too large of a span of control.

But we can't deviate.  We can't move some of those offices around on the org chart and we can't create new positions.
So we just regulated us into an asinine position.

Do you see my point here?
We should rule the org chart.....not the other way around.  The Regs by all means should be telling us "You will have an XYZ officer" but how the squadron commander organizes this should be up to the commander.  And the commander should be able to create new job titles and duty positions to fit their needs.....such as moving the Special Services Officers and the Admin Officer under a Chief of Staff/Executive Officer.

Again looking at a composite Squadron vs a Senior Squadron......in the absences of the Commander it is clear that in a Senior Squadron that the Deputy commander is in charge....the lines show this direct relationship.  Who is in charge of a Composite Squadron when the commander is gone?

At least six people are next on the list and maybe upwards to 13 people.

As I said before Asinine

[Eclipse]

You're confusing deviation with making up titles and roles from whole cloth.

The role and title of XO and CS does not exist below Wing, therefore can't use them.

Reorganization of the structure, within a small margin, is allowed for by 20-1, that's quoted above,
and further, beyond those appointments specific by reg, not all roles and staff are required - CDs
are one of them.  Nothing says a small unit can't simply have appointed staff officers and forgo
CD.  However, a prudent Group or Wing CC would not allow that because it does not allow
for smooth transition in the absence of the commander.  CDs do, staff officers, XOs and CS' don't.

You just can't make things up.

[Private Investigator]

Do you see my point here?

Your concern from and inspection point is not about "are you all doing the Cadet Program right" but "Do you have all your I's dotted and T's Crossed and does it look nice and neat".

I am not saying that attention to detail to the I's and T's is not important.  I am not saying that we should not be doing the jobs we need to be doing.  But what we call the guy who oversees the squadron's cadet program/squadron staff/emergency services operations/et al is less important than having someone overseeing the squadron's programs and doing it "right".

Usually if a Unit can not dot the "i" and cross the "t". They are likely not doing anything correctly.

Before we had eservices and everything was paper. I inspected a Squadron and I already had a tip they did not bother doing safety briefs. So I was looking at the "documentation" and since they meet on Mondays I found it interesting that year the 4th of July was on a Monday. According to the paperwork they had a Squadron meeting and a safety brief with 100% attendance on Monday, July 4. While they had 'pencil whipped' all their safety paperwork in a careless manner, I found numerous errors. Alleged meetings on Thursdays and Sundays and a February 29 that did not exist that year.

I think some people know the motto of the Forrest Gump Composite Squadron, especially since they failed and was grounded.   

[Brad]

In the same guide there is a requirement for an assigned Communications Officer. Would this discussion be different someone said we like Wireless Officer better?

In the same guide there is a requirement for an assigned Supply Officer. Would this discussion be different someone said we like Quartermaster better?

I suspect the Coast Guard Aux and the BSA don't have this issue.

Have you ever looked at Coast Guard Aux office symbols?  They're somewhat intuitive once you understand them, but it takes a bit, especially the fact they have number designators and letter designators. Example: CG-BSX-1, which is the Auxiliary Division of the Office of Auxiliary and Boating Safety, CG-BSX, can also be referred to as CG-5421, the Auxiliary Division of the Office of Auxiliary and Boating Safety, CG-542.

Then there's distribution lists which is a whole nother ball of wax.

DISTRIBUTION – SDL No. 139

	a	b	c	d	e	f	g	h	i	j	k	l	m	n	o	p	q	r	s	t	u	v	w	x	y	z
A	3	3	3		3	3	2	2	1	1		1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1		1

Does that all the way down to row H.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Also, why can't someone use the abbreviation of DCC for Deputy Commander for Cadets?  Just because the office symbol is CDC doesn't mean it can't be abbreviated DCC...

It's not logical. A DCC would be in communications. Anyone who has a first-letter C in a functional address symbol is in a command section. It's why a chaplain is an HC and not a CH. But if we followed the "why can't it be DCC," then here are some conundrums for you:

CO: Communications Officer. Confused easily with "commanding officer," an Army term.
CH: Chaplain. Like the radio guy, not part of the command section.
SO: Supply Officer. Could be Safety Officer, too. Don't LGS and SE make more sense?
LO: Legal Officer. Not to be confused with liaison officers.
FO: Finance Officer. Uh, sure. Flight Officer, or an endearing gesture that ensures motivated teamwork and esprit de corps.
And here's one you see flying around Florida Wing — DCSS, which is supposed to be "deputy chief of staff for support." It's actually supposed to be CSDS — Chief of Staff, Deputy, Support. Florida has three, they oversee different areas, and I just randomly picked one. A DCSS could be a communications directorate function that's seriously broken down into bits.

Since a squadron commander is the "old man," why can't a deputy commander for cadets just be called the "big kid" or (with apologies to Dustin Hoffman) the "little big man"?

[Private Investigator]

Also, why can't someone use the abbreviation of DCC for Deputy Commander for Cadets?  Just because the office symbol is CDC doesn't mean it can't be abbreviated DCC...

It's not logical. A DCC would be in communications. Anyone who has a first-letter C in a functional address symbol is in a command section. It's why a chaplain is an HC and not a CH. But if we followed the "why can't it be DCC," then here are some conundrums for you:

CO: Communications Officer. Confused easily with "commanding officer," an Army term.
CH: Chaplain. Like the radio guy, not part of the command section.
SO: Supply Officer. Could be Safety Officer, too. Don't LGS and SE make more sense?
LO: Legal Officer. Not to be confused with liaison officers.
FO: Finance Officer. Uh, sure. Flight Officer, or an endearing gesture that ensures motivated teamwork and esprit de corps.
And here's one you see flying around Florida Wing — DCSS, which is supposed to be "deputy chief of staff for support." It's actually supposed to be CSDS — Chief of Staff, Deputy, Support. Florida has three, they oversee different areas, and I just randomly picked one. A DCSS could be a communications directorate function that's seriously broken down into bits.

Since a squadron commander is the "old man," why can't a deputy commander for cadets just be called the "big kid" or (with apologies to Dustin Hoffman) the "little big man"?

I concur.

And that last line is so funny too   :clap: