The Secret To Success In CAP

[Eclipse]

During a forum in 2005, the question was posed to Herr Jobs and Gates "...what would be the single most valuable piece of advice you would give us to even attempt to create some of the value that you guys have done in both your very impressive companies?"  We all have our opinions on one platform vs. another, but no one can argue that both men are literally at the top of their field and know a thing or two about building a team.

Bill, as might be expected, answered more in terms of business practice than emotion or team building, but Steve provided some insight which is just as relevant to success in CAP as it is to building a business.

"...Yeah, people say you have a lot of passion for what you are doing, and it's totally true and the reason is because it's so hard that if you don't any rational person would give up.

It's really hard and you have to do it over a sustained period of time.  So if you don't love it, if you're not having fun doing it, if you don't absolutely love it, you're going to give up.

And that's what happens to most people, actually.

If you look at the ones that ended up being successful in the eyes of society, often times it's, the ones that are successful love what they did so they could persevere, you know, when it got really tough.

And the ones that didn't love it, quit.  Because they're sane, right? Who would put up with this stuff if you don't love it?

So it's a lot of hard work and it's a lot of worrying constantly and,  if you don't love it, you're going to fail.

So, you gotta love it, you gotta have passion.

And I think that's the high order bid.

The second thing is, you've gotta be, you've gotta be a really good talent scout because no matter how smart you are, you need a team of great people.

And you've got to figure out how to size people up fairly  quickly, how to make decisions without knowing people too well and hire them, see how you do, and refine your intuition, and be able to help build an organization that can eventually just build itself.

Because you need great people around you."

http://www.purchase.com/blog/entrepreneuriship/bill-gates-steve-jobs-me

[FW]

Success in CAP is much more than building a good team, finding great talent, loving what you do and, passion.  It's a good start though. 

The major difference between Microsoft, Apple and CAP is this.  And, knowing this IMHO, is the secret to success in CAP.  That difference is in how we motivate our membership (team) to continually perform our missions well.  When CAP realizes our motivators do not totally corelate to the "for profits", we can start understanding what success really is. 

And, to start the process, I would suggest looking more to the BSA, American Red Cross, and other similar organizations to look for potential answers. 

[Eclipse]

The motivators are a huge factor - in business it is usually money, in the military it is many times "because I have to", and in public service it is a combination of the two.

But in CAP it is mostly dependent on strong, knowledgeable leaders setting a proper tone and direction and then collaborating with their staff on reaching those goals, while recognizing since neither livelihood nor force of law is requiring people to participate, they need to enjoy and look forward to their service at least 1/2 the time to keep those that are actually assets coming back for more.

Ego about being "right" or "in charge" needs to be checked at the door.

A course charted that looks reasonable and attainable, while filling people cups will engender follower-ship with little effort.  A rudderless ship simply reacting to the shiny/noisy stuff will grow the same in your people.

This is something which I have had limited success with, but not nearly what I had hoped, owing in some part to the reality of time and resources, and in some part personal blame in the articulation and follow-through of my plans.

[JeffDG]

Money is a horrible way to motivate people in business...can't cite the source, but IIRC, a salary increase motivates an employee for about 2 weeks, then it's just the new normal and has zero impact.

Identifying what motivates your people, and then making use of that knowledge, is critical in both the business world and in volunteer management as well.  There are no easy answers in either space.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Money is a horrible way to motivate people in business...can't cite the source, but IIRC, a salary increase motivates an employee for about 2 weeks, then it's just the new normal and has zero impact.

Identifying what motivates your people, and then making use of that knowledge, is critical in both the business world and in volunteer management as well.  There are no easy answers in either space.

End of the year bonus? Stock options?

The better the profits, the better the take!

Or so they tell me in my Business classes...

[Eclipse]

One would think it is that simple, but anything less than life-changing money tends to fall into the background, get eaten by taxes, and forgotten by your third 12-hour day.  Certainly it is important to pay people appropriately, but my personal experience is that many people view respect and acceptance of their ideas to be just as important as money, especially in middle management and small business situations which are akin to typical CAP operations.

[FW]

^I agree however, in CAP, motivators also include the ability to function in their position without undue burden(s) placed upon membership.  Leaders must balance the needs of the mission with the needs/wants of members. CAP's performance is based on a membership willing to do the work.   Whether we lead or follow is not really an issue for success.  Shared vision to a common goal, working together to establish workable objectives and, ahearing to an ethical standard in achieving them is the key.  "Respect" is not just another word.  For an organization such as ours, it is the most important element in keeping CAP successful.  Without respect for our fellow members, our other core values collapse and failure follows.

[JeffDG]

^I agree however, in CAP, motivators also include the ability to function in their position without undue burden(s) placed upon membership.  Leaders must balance the needs of the mission with the needs/wants of members. CAP's performance is based on a membership willing to do the work.   Whether we lead or follow is not really an issue for success.  Shared vision to a common goal, working together to establish workable objectives and, ahearing to an ethical standard in achieving them is the key.  "Respect" is not just another word.  For an organization such as ours, it is the most important element in keeping CAP successful.  Without respect for our fellow members, our other core values collapse and failure follows.

Everything you just said is equally applicable to the business world.

[dwb]

The secret to success in CAP: Be useful, and don't be a diva.

[jimmydeanno]

Generation Y and X will turn over significantly more pay for a job they enjoy and are inspired to do. 

In my opinion, if CAP wants to be successful, they are going to have to adapt their business practices to accommodate the generational differences of Gen X&Y vs. Boomers and Traditionalists.  Perhaps this transition will be naturally occurring as those generations take over, maybe not.

Those two generations see no value in doing things, just for the sake of doing them.  They need to see value in their efforts.  That means to get the upcoming generations of CAP members to fulfill the mission, there needs to be efficiency and value to their work, or else they will leave and CAP will become obsolete to those organizations who better adapted.

[FW]

All true, however, the need for "respect" in the "business world" is not the prime motivator.  Many employees, even gen x and y, fester in their job year after year for that paycheck every week.  Their bosses are among the ogres of society yet, they keep working.  It's one of the reasons unions are in existence. 

CAP's success is based more on intangibles.  We need almost constant ego stimulation to keep going.  The best way to do this is by examples Eclipse mentions. 

[coudano]

sort of depends on how you define success eh?

personal success?  success of the unit?  success of the organization?
is success rising to the top of the corporate chain?
is success helping a wayward teen on a better path?
is success taking a squadron from 4 members to 60?

the answer may depend on the conditions.

[lordmonar]

On a personal level....it is to have fun.

If you are not having fun then take a break.

We have so few movitator.  No pay increase, no bonus, no extra time off, no junkets to Vegas, no company plane/hotel/spa.  All we got is ribbons and a pat on the back.

As leaders....we have to use situational leadership technicques to get the most out of our folks.  They don't have to be here so we have to find the thing that makes them pop.

We need to find out what makes CAP fun for them and make sure we get it to them.

Telling people to check the EGO and forget about the bling....is not good situational leadership.

If a pridy ribbon and a should cord long enough to choke a pig is what gets your people to perfrom...then use it.

If "being in charge" is what gets a talented team member to perform better....give him a title.

All too often what happens is that the good people end up doing all the work...and it becomes work.  And so they quit.

On the other side we get new blood who are neglectited and they fade away...because CAP was not fun.

We make a lot of noise about the "flying club mentality"....but if that works...I'm not going to loose any sleep over it.  Some places want to be basic training all over again.....again if it works I don't care.

One of basic laws of leadership.....if it stupid...but works....then it is not stupid.

[JeffDG]

no company plane/hotel/spa. 

Well....we do have quite a few company planes!   

[Майор Хаткевич]

no company plane/hotel/spa. 

Well....we do have quite a few company planes!   

I have seen there company planes you speak of, and they lack the comfort of the learjets!

[JeffDG]

no company plane/hotel/spa. 

Well....we do have quite a few company planes!   

I have seen there company planes you speak of, and they lack the comfort of the learjets!

Can't argue with you there, but I'll bet we have more company aircraft per member than any company has per employee!

[lordmonar]

But we don't have the option to just borrow one for the week end and jet off to vegas. (I guess prop would be a better word )

[Майор Хаткевич]

But we don't have the option to just borrow one for the week end and jet off to vegas. (I guess prop would be a better word )

Well, PRWG gets to visit US Islands near by at times.

[Short Field]

But we don't have the option to just borrow one for the week end and jet off to vegas. (I guess prop would be a better word )

Just sign your daughter up in CAP, then take a multistate multi-day cross-country "proficiency flight" so you can watch your grandson graduate from basic training.  Or sign out the squadron aircraft for a week so you can take it TDY.  True stories and not in the ancient past.

[Major Carrales]

IF one is not having a good time doing CAP, it is time to take a break.  CAP, which takes away from work, family and the like; has to be rewarding.   I am saddened when good CAP officers become over-burdened and then en dup hating it.

Motivation for volunteer work is internal...the drive must be there, or it falls apart.

[FW]

Joe, motivation for volunteer work is only internal to the extent we actually join up as a member.  To keep motivated, we need all sorts of external factors.  It is these external factors which drives an organization with "happy" members. 
I am saddened when good CAP officers who, even after good rewarding work, feel unappreciated, unheard and, marginalized for any number of reasons. Our "drive" can veer off a cliff if we let our members feel trivialized. 
The key to success "for" CAP is in the value we place on our members, the missions we perform and, how they are performed.  In our case, when we are successful with this, we please not only ourselves but, our external customers, donors and contributors.
YMMV 

[EMT-83]

As this thread has drifted over to motivation... remember the power of a simple "thank you" to your members.

A few years ago, my department was dispatched to a house fire on a bitterly cold winter night. It was a crappy, smoky fire that beat the snot out of us, and then our gear froze where it got wet. You guys that have been there know exactly what I mean. We put the fire out, return to quarters and get everything thawed out and back into service. Just as the sun is starting to come up, we head for home to get ready for our real jobs. As we're walking out the door, I dropped a quick "thank you" to the guys for a job well done.

I thought that one of the guys was going to burst into tears. He couldn't believe that while I was the one calling the shots, and led my crew through a pretty tough situation and gotten them home safely, I would thank him. He felt that he should be the one thanking me instead. Of course, it was a team effort that led to our success. The moral of the story isn't that I'm God's gift to the world as a fire captain, because that certainly isn't true. The real lesson is in motivation and loyalty. To this day, that guy would walk through fire for me (pun intended).

[RADIOMAN015]

And, to start the process, I would suggest looking more to the BSA, American Red Cross, and other similar organizations to look for potential answers.

Yes they (BSA & ARC) do have "respect" for their volunteers were CAP Inc is only interested in CYA of the corporation with all the various "certifications" members have to sign and the kicker of it all "privilege to remain a member, not a right".   Example is members that have accidents and are judged "neglegent" (hint this is whatever CAP decides) and have to pay for damages to aircraft or vehicles.   NO volunteer member purposely gets in an accident (Definition --- An accident is a specific, unexpected, unusual and unintended external action which occurs in a particular time and place, with no apparent and deliberate cause but with marked effects. It implies a generally negative outcome which may have been avoided or prevented had circumstances leading up to the accident been recognized, and acted upon, prior to its occurrence).  Comparision -- the American Red Cross (local chapters) that have vehicles, realizes that volunteers (regardless of who caused accident), and carry appropriate collision/vehicle damage insurance to cover the potential for accidents.

The bottom line is CAP is NOT the best organization to be an unpaid volunteer in for an individual IF somethings goes "astray" (and with all of CAP regulations one has to know, it's somewhat easy to get stuck in an astray!!! ) -- and as I advise all new senior members, take a very good look at what you are signing and be sure you understand the potential personal financial ramifications to you and plan accordingly.   
RM 
     

[Short Field]

Yes they (BSA & ARC) do have "respect" for their volunteers were CAP Inc is only interested in CYA of the corporation with all the various "certifications" members have to sign and the kicker of it all "privilege to remain a member, not a right". 

I was on a ARC Disaster Response Team and we spent at least two 4-hour sessions in some type of certification or re-certification program each month. I had to carry a binder in order to store all my certification cards.  CAP is not near as bad.

Example is members that have accidents and are judged "neglegent" (hint this is whatever CAP decides) and have to pay for damages to aircraft or vehicles.   

See Paragraph 2-27 from  CAPR 174-1 Property Management and Accountability, 22 JULY 2010, for a correct definition of what is negligent and what the assessments could be.  If you don't trust the CAP leadership to honestly evaluate an accident, then you really shouldn't be in CAP. 

[RADIOMAN015]

Yes they (BSA & ARC) do have "respect" for their volunteers were CAP Inc is only interested in CYA of the corporation with all the various "certifications" members have to sign and the kicker of it all "privilege to remain a member, not a right". 

I was on a ARC Disaster Response Team and we spent at least two 4-hour sessions in some type of certification or re-certification program each month. I had to carry a binder in order to store all my certification cards.  CAP is not near as bad.
I have no issue with anyone in CAP being further certified for Emergency Services and being required to perform practice sessions in order to maintain their currency.  In fact I think CAP is not strict enough on the amount/frequency of practice required.  There's a fair number of folks out their that like to collect ES qualifications, but lack depth of experience.    I am referring more to the overall general membership aspects of joining and some of the legal mumbo jumbo that's been added to likely be detrimental to the volunteer, unpaid, dedicated member when things go astray.

Example is members that have accidents and are judged "neglegent" (hint this is whatever CAP decides) and have to pay for damages to aircraft or vehicles.   

See Paragraph 2-27 from  CAPR 174-1 Property Management and Accountability, 22 JULY 2010, for a correct definition of what is negligent and what the assessments could be.  If you don't trust the CAP leadership to honestly evaluate an accident, then you really shouldn't be in CAP.

I have personally observed the regulation not being followed with a long time member that had a perfect safety record, until he/she had an accident.    Regardless, volunteers should not be penalized for being a volunteer and having an accident while serving to the best of their ability.  That's why an organization should carry adequate insurance.   The simple matter is personally I won't be driving a CAP owned van/vehicle nor will I be transporting CAP members in my personal vehicle.  That's my decision, and again IF CAP wants to keep the current policy fine, BUT I will do what I feel is best for me in regards to limiting ANY potential monetary liability issues.  I would recommend that anyone considering driving CAP vehicles or flying CAP aircraft ensure they have adequate insurance coverage (specificially verify with your insurance company that you will be covered for damages).  I personally just don't want the "hassle" with CAP if anything went astray :angel:   

RM

[James Shaw]

Secret to success:

Enjoy the work you do.
Listen more talk less.
Be truthful in your dealings.
Praise in public, counsel in private.

Applies to anything you may do. Thats what I tell my operators.

From reading some of the posts lately on CAPTalk I wonder why people have to complain so much. If members put half the amount of energy in supporting instead of complaining then we would probably all be better off.

[Short Field]

I I am referring more to the overall general membership aspects of joining and some of the legal mumbo jumbo that's been added to likely be detrimental to the volunteer, unpaid, dedicated member when things go astray.

I hope this red shows up better on your monitor than it does on mine.  I really don't understand what you mean by "Legal Mumbo Jumbo".  Yes, there is training that requires the member acknowledge CAP policy and formally agree to abide by that policy.  If you have a problem, then don't participate.

I have personally observed the regulation not being followed with a long time member that had a perfect safety record, until he/she had an accident.

It shouldn't make any difference how long the person has been a member or what their safety record was prior to the accident.  Were they at fault according to the CAP definition of negligence for Type I, II, or III incidents?   If you don't want to drive or fly CAP vehicles, then don't.  If you do then buy personal liability insurance.  If you really don't trust CAP, then invest in pre-paid legal services. 

[FlyTiger77]

... If you really don't trust CAP, then invest in pre-paid legal services.

I would not belong to an organization which I did not trust and I certainly wouldn't pay >$50/year for the privilege.

Based solely on reading posts here, I wonder why some people are still in CAP if they really think it is as fouled up as their posts seem to imply.

Edited to correct formatting

[FW]

We join CAP for many reasons.  We stay in CAP for many reasons.  Complaining  is a deep and well loved tradition in CAP.  It's even more of a tradition here on CapTalk.  What needs to be understood is; dissent is a means to progress in an organization.  Dissent is actually a sign of health; especially in a volunteer organization.  Hearing counterpoint to an issue is a means for leadership to bend in it's thought processes and come to decisions which may be satisfying to more of the membership. 
It's the known opportunity for each member to be heard (in CAP through the chain of command) which gives us a feeling of inclusion and, in part, a reason to stay.

[EMT-83]

My bad; I thought descent was how you got back to the airport.   

[FW]

  Darn spellcheck...

[O-Rex]

Two simple rules I tell people to keep them out of trouble it CAP:

Maintain your sense of perspective

Work within the organization framework

Everything else is window-dressing.

[Al Sayre]

The secret to success is not really a secret.  Take the time to read the regulations, manuals and pamphlets for yourself.

Just out of curiosity, I wonder how many of our GT and Aircrew personnel have ever bothered to read CAPP-2?

[Spaceman3750]

Just out of curiosity, I wonder how many of our GT and Aircrew personnel have ever bothered to read CAPP-2?

It would help if it was mentioned somewhere other than in your last post (of course, it's possible that it's been stuck in a PowerPoint somewhere and I've just missed it). I have never seen that pamphlet before, but now I'm going to read it. It looks like most of what is contained in that pamphlet is taught in the green bible and through hands-on learning anyways.

[RVT]

My bad; I thought descent was how you got back to the airport.   

It was also a fairly decent video game of the late 90's

CAp has both regulations regarding Indemnification as well as  making financial claims

But read this first as it covers most of what you read here.

[Hilltop]

My only curiosity is, does anyone read CAPTalk that is in a position to make any of the changes? If so, Would they actually make the changes being that the suggestions/complaints are coming from a forum such as this?

[jimmydeanno]

A lot of people read CT.  Sometimes you'll see suggestions find their way into new materials, etc.  One of the active members on here is a member of the BoG, there's a "NHQ PITA" roaming around here too.  Additionally, there's some region level folks, members of NHQ committees, etc.

[Hilltop]

Well cool, maybe one of them will take the suggestion to have the 39-1 remade to heart, I know I have seen it on here a lot, and I have read and gone through the 39-1 many times myself and find that I am still rather confused about many things. Not to mention the uniforms on some of the photographs don't seem to quite match up with what is written in the regulations. I would just love to see some clarity. There are many other things that need looked at again to if nothing else give clarity.

[Eclipse]

But we don't have the option to just borrow one for the week end and jet off to vegas. (I guess prop would be a better word )

Just sign your daughter up in CAP, then take a multistate multi-day cross-country "proficiency flight" so you can watch your grandson graduate from basic training.  Or sign out the squadron aircraft for a week so you can take it TDY.  True stories and not in the ancient past.

Framed correctly, neither of those is really an inappropriate use, and both would have needed approval, probably by the Wing CC.

[BillB]

And if the flight was outside the Region, The Region Commander would also have to approve.

[Bluelakes 13]

My only curiosity is, does anyone read CAPTalk that is in a position to make any of the changes? If so, Would they actually make the changes being that the suggestions/complaints are coming from a forum such as this?

I certainly hope not.  Most members here are anonymous, so for me to take a suggestion to NHQ from an anonymous source would be... well, you know.

A better approach would be that if you see an opinion you like here, or anywhere for that matter, you take it through your chain of command.

[Eclipse]

My only curiosity is, does anyone read CAPTalk that is in a position to make any of the changes? If so, Would they actually make the changes being that the suggestions/complaints are coming from a forum such as this?

I certainly hope not.  Most members here are anonymous, so for me to take a suggestion to NHQ from an anonymous source would be... well, you know.

A better approach would be that if you see an opinion you like here, or anywhere for that matter, you take it through your chain of command.

Further, and contrary to the belief of some members here, very little "new" is ever raised that hasn't been on the table or a known issue for years. 

Much of the discussion here is rehashing and re-answering the same questions and derivitives of those questions, peppered with the occasional political comment disguised as a question.

[Hilltop]

My only curiosity is, does anyone read CAPTalk that is in a position to make any of the changes? If so, Would they actually make the changes being that the suggestions/complaints are coming from a forum such as this?

I certainly hope not.  Most members here are anonymous, so for me to take a suggestion to NHQ from an anonymous source would be... well, you know.

A better approach would be that if you see an opinion you like here, or anywhere for that matter, you take it through your chain of command.

Further, and contrary to the belief of some members here, very little "new" is ever raised that hasn't been on the table or a known issue for years. 

Much of the discussion here is rehashing and re-answering the same questions and derivitives of those questions, peppered with the occasional political comment disguised as a question.

If so, then why do it? Even though a topic has been brought to review before doesn't mean it can't/shouldn't be done again, especially if it would do good for the members. Sometimes things need to be brought to the table multiple times before the real point of help is understood. If something such as revising the 39-1 can be brought up for review only once, please let me know, I don't mean to be a drag or to put a bee in any body's bonnet or anything like that.

I was a cadet and came back into CAP for the love of it, and I would just like to see CAP move forward.

[JeffDG]

I certainly hope not.  Most members here are anonymous, so for me to take a suggestion to NHQ from an anonymous source would be... well, you know.

Why?  If an idea has merit, regardless of the source, why can't you use your own judgment in forwarding it?

[Eclipse]

If so, then why do it? Even though a topic has been brought to review before doesn't mean it can't/shouldn't be done again, especially if it would do good for the members. Sometimes things need to be brought to the table multiple times before the real point of help is understood. If something such as revising the 39-1 can be brought up for review only once, please let me know, I don't mean to be a drag or to put a bee in any body's bonnet or anything like that.

I was a cadet and came back into CAP for the love of it, and I would just like to see CAP move forward.

You're missing the point - first, there is a whole lot of great information and effective discussion on this board which is available to anyone
who is willing to spend the time with the search button.

Second, walking in the door and suggesting that 39-1 needs a re-write indicates that you haven't bothered to spend any time doing the first thing.

There are a number of influential people who participate actively, and a whole lot more who lurk - occasionally there is resolution that can almost certainly be shown as a direct line from here to result, but with that said, most of it is just circular argument on the same topics
that we have been beating to atoms for 10 years.

[FW]

^ I agree with Eclipse.  Many members in leadership positions read and/or contribute to this forum.  It's a great way to vet ideas and an even better way to hear gripes about CAP.  I know of a few ideas started on CT which made it to NB agenda items.  We can all be proud of that.   CT is, IMHO, a well moderated discussion board of interested CAP members and others willing to sound in on topics relating to the Civil Air Patrol. 
That is a good thing...

[a2capt]

Wow, suspended .. after three posts. Must be a shill.
No success there..

[SarDragon]

Smurf account, maybe?

[MIKE]

I'm Gargamel.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Me actually, I have been getting some emails since I posted my name and that if you google me, I would pop up rather close to the top. So, I wanted this account closed so that maybe those emails would stop, but there isn't a delete account button nor will they delete it for me or anything. The emails that I have been getting makes me rather uncomfortable and I would just like them to stop. I don't know who they come from, I don't want to know, I just want them to stop.

**EDIT**

I guess I'll just delete them as they come in and block the senders. I do enjoy this forum.

My question of "If so, then why do it?" was mainly aimed at if there are such strong opinions, why not continually try to push them up through the command? I would do it myself, but I do not feel that I have been active on the SM side of CAP *long enough* to do it quite yet.

[Johnny Yuma]

Success in CAP? Where Do I begin...

- Underwear is never worn outside the pants (tag goes in back)
- Flush
- They're call a "Boot". You put your foot in them
- Avoid the rapidly rotating blades on the front of those funny looking 3 wheelers
- Don't call the National Commander "Toots"
- The NEC is never referred to referred to as "Amy's minions" (that's the National Board)
- Those are Air Force officers, not waiters
  - We do not tell the cadet's parents that we lost their kid and they need to go make us       another one

[HGjunkie]

- Underwear is never worn outside the pants (tag goes in back)
- Flush

Do I want to know? 

[SarDragon]

- Underwear is never worn outside the pants (tag goes in back)
- Flush

Do I want to know? 

Probably not. 

[Johnny Yuma]

- Underwear is never worn outside the pants (tag goes in back)
- Flush

Do I want to know? 

Probably not. 

Brand new cadets and old timer seniors have so much in common...