Okay....a split from another thread.
If the Commander reads this site everyday (as rumor has it) let's make it easy for him to zero in on suggestions and comments.
So....I propose either a new Area (like the Lobby) that is "for the commander's consideration" or some such.
Anyone can post a new topic...but no one is to respond to it.
Make it place for us to ask questions or make suggestions that may be of interest to the national commander.
NOTE......I don't suggest it be a place to make accusations or anything that should be brought up to the chain of command/IG/etc.
So no "My commander yelled at me" or "I'm not getting promoted again" topics. but a place to ask questions.....such as "why do we require two wing (or higher) conferences for Level III"? or make suggestions "I suggest we eliminate the requirement to attend conferences".
What are your thoughts?
Isn't that what the "Ask the commander" link on eServices is for? I mean, sure, it's only used (or was) for ABU questions, but I personally never felt comfortable asking anything up the chain...that high.
I have to agree that that sounds like what the Ask the Commander button in eServices was meant for. Also, I think that the value that higher ups get from reading CAPTalk is the discussion, even if it is 10 pages of what color thread are we going to have on our name tapes.
Quote from: jeders on August 19, 2013, 09:37:40 PM
I have to agree that that sounds like what the Ask the Commander button in eServices was meant for. Also, I think that the value that higher ups get from reading CAPTalk is the discussion, even if it is 10 pages of what color thread are we going to have on our name tapes.
True. Particularly things like the new CPP. A lot of opinions, and even some suggestions. Heck, even my views over the course of the post evolved, so I bet when they do read it (and as we all know Ned does, and he had a hand in it), they appreciate seeing the conversation evolve.
Sounds like a good concept. But does MGen Carr have the time to respond to the questions? I would have none since I just got a snail mail letter from MGen Carr.
Nah...let him lurk like the others :)
I like the ideal :clap:
"Ask the Commander", on eservices is answered by the "Wing Administrator". CAP Talk has all the gritty action of a Quentin Tarantino movie. ;)
We definitely represent the average CAP member!..... or maybe not. >:D
I like the idea in theory, but this is so far outside the chain of command (and keep in mind that CAPTalk is in no way an official anything) that I think there are better options. Perhaps a better idea would be to just have a few threads serve as a common reference point for ideas to pass up the chain of command everywhere. If 50 Wing CCs got the same requests, I'm sure it would result in something (maybe not what was wanted, but something nonetheless).
Quote from: Flying Pig on August 20, 2013, 01:18:32 AM
We definitely represent the average CAP member!..... or maybe not. >:D
There is nothing normal about you 8)
Quote from: OldGuard on August 21, 2013, 03:05:37 AM
Quote from: Flying Pig on August 20, 2013, 01:18:32 AM
We definitely represent the average CAP member!..... or maybe not. >:D
There is nothing normal about you 8)
That's why he's been exiled to Florida! :o
He actually escaped the Democratic Republic of California to take up exile in Florida. And he is not the normal CT poster.
Before I begin, I was contacted by some cadet parents that mentioned that a cadet was being "bashed" or otherwise pummeled on this forum. I then read the thread in question. Having not been in the "heat" of that debate reading it really sent bad signals. :'( Thus, I returned to CAPTALK to remind everyone that words make perception.
Does Gen Carr read this? Hummmmmm?!? Signs point to...what?
I believe he does. If he has, woe be to the CAPTALK threadsters.
That said... please temper your posts with restraint and debate procedures that make both logical and ethical sense. Below is a chart which shows various fallacies of debate and argument. Just for fun, see if you can count how many you may have done.
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 21, 2013, 06:24:12 AM
Before I begin, I was contacted by some cadet parents that mentioned that a cadet was being "bashed" or otherwise pummeled on this forum.
You did tell them that this is an unofficial discussion board of the CAP community and not everybody believes in "warm fuzzies" or a "snack break" after drill. 8)
The perception of Civil Air Patrol, many times, is dictated more by people "misspeaking" here at Captalk than the actual press releases from Maxwell. The "unofficial" nature of this forum does not excuse CAP personel from thier core values. Nor does it negate the fact that things said here are read by the general public. The appearance of bashing, dare I say hazing, a cadet is enough to cause damage to the program. Put and end to that sort of thing.
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 21, 2013, 05:16:53 PMThe appearance of bashing, dare I say hazing, a cadet is enough to cause damage to the program. Put and end to that sort of thing.
If it ever comes up, we should be sure to point it out. Haven't seen anything but cordial conversations and appropriate
questions / corrections here any time recently.
Oh no the "h" word has reared it's ugly head.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 21, 2013, 05:32:18 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 21, 2013, 05:16:53 PMThe appearance of bashing, dare I say hazing, a cadet is enough to cause damage to the program. Put and end to that sort of thing.
If it ever comes up, we should be sure to point it out. Haven't seen anything but cordial conversations and appropriate
questions / corrections here any time recently.
Cordial is not what comes to mind after the recent thread that was locked.
Quote from: stillamarine on August 21, 2013, 05:47:25 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 21, 2013, 05:32:18 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 21, 2013, 05:16:53 PMThe appearance of bashing, dare I say hazing, a cadet is enough to cause damage to the program. Put and end to that sort of thing.
If it ever comes up, we should be sure to point it out. Haven't seen anything but cordial conversations and appropriate
questions / corrections here any time recently.
Cordial is not what comes to mind after the recent thread that was locked.
Respsonses brought upon by said poster when a different approach didn't work.
Just in case anyone wants to pretend to be the national commander...the die made to use pinedas national/cc coins is for sale on eBay. You could start churning them out ASAP!! >:D
Quote from: stillamarine on August 21, 2013, 05:47:25 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 21, 2013, 05:32:18 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 21, 2013, 05:16:53 PMThe appearance of bashing, dare I say hazing, a cadet is enough to cause damage to the program. Put and end to that sort of thing.
If it ever comes up, we should be sure to point it out. Haven't seen anything but cordial conversations and appropriate
questions / corrections here any time recently.
Cordial is not what comes to mind after the recent thread that was locked.
Nor was it hazing or bashing...
Quote from: NCRblues on August 21, 2013, 06:05:50 PM
Just in case anyone wants to pretend to be the national commander...the die made to use pinedas national/cc coins is for sale on eBay. You could start churning them out ASAP!! >:D
So is the coin he used as a proof
The point is being tactful and professional when correcting anyone. Far too many people here are more about "one-upsmanship" than correcting people for faux pas. Every post we write should be written as if the National Commander is reading it and that it is being written by a responsible CAP officer or cadet. Why, because that is integrity. If someone posts a reply that is steeped in banality or vitriol...don't negate your high ground by contributing to that. Instead send a private messagse to them and threadsters that reply in the wrong. Don't make a scene that reflects the base levels if humanity. Don't attack people or be smug. Debate...do not argue. Solve problems, do not add to them. Correct the misinformation of know-it-alls...don't become worse then them with arrogance of your own.
^+1
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 21, 2013, 09:14:55 PM
The point is being tactful and professional when correcting anyone. Far too many people here are more about "one-upsmanship" than correcting people for faux pas. Every post we write should be written as if the National Commander is reading it and that it is being written by a responsible CAP officer or cadet. Why, because that is integrity. If someone posts a reply that is steeped in banality or vitriol...don't negate your high ground by contributing to that. Instead send a private messagse to them and threadsters that reply in the wrong. Don't make a scene that reflects the base levels if humanity. Don't attack people or be smug. Debate...do not argue. Solve problems, do not add to them. Correct the misinformation of know-it-alls...don't become worse then them with arrogance of your own.
Sir, I can agree with the bulk of what you are saying but truthfully sometimes you just have to be blunt and to the point with people. Being that MajGen Carr is a prior defender I am sure that he would understand reading here that when the attempt has been made to be polite, tactful, and not try to _______ (insert blank) that gears were switched to communicate the message for a individual/s that just don't get it.
Quote from: abdsp51 on August 22, 2013, 02:35:05 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 21, 2013, 09:14:55 PM
The point is being tactful and professional when correcting anyone. Far too many people here are more about "one-upsmanship" than correcting people for faux pas. Every post we write should be written as if the National Commander is reading it and that it is being written by a responsible CAP officer or cadet. Why, because that is integrity. If someone posts a reply that is steeped in banality or vitriol...don't negate your high ground by contributing to that. Instead send a private messagse to them and threadsters that reply in the wrong. Don't make a scene that reflects the base levels if humanity. Don't attack people or be smug. Debate...do not argue. Solve problems, do not add to them. Correct the misinformation of know-it-alls...don't become worse then them with arrogance of your own.
Sir, I can agree with the bulk of what you are saying but truthfully sometimes you just have to be blunt and to the point with people. Being that MajGen Carr is a prior defender I am sure that he would understand reading here that when the attempt has been made to be polite, tactful, and not try to _______ (insert blank) that gears were switched to communicate the message for a individual/s that just don't get it.
Then take it to pm. Because it makes you look like an......well I'm not gonna say it because I don't want to be banned.
Quote from: stillamarine on August 22, 2013, 04:53:41 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on August 22, 2013, 02:35:05 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 21, 2013, 09:14:55 PM
The point is being tactful and professional when correcting anyone. Far too many people here are more about "one-upsmanship" than correcting people for faux pas. Every post we write should be written as if the National Commander is reading it and that it is being written by a responsible CAP officer or cadet. Why, because that is integrity. If someone posts a reply that is steeped in banality or vitriol...don't negate your high ground by contributing to that. Instead send a private messagse to them and threadsters that reply in the wrong. Don't make a scene that reflects the base levels if humanity. Don't attack people or be smug. Debate...do not argue. Solve problems, do not add to them. Correct the misinformation of know-it-alls...don't become worse then them with arrogance of your own.
Sir, I can agree with the bulk of what you are saying but truthfully sometimes you just have to be blunt and to the point with people. Being that MajGen Carr is a prior defender I am sure that he would understand reading here that when the attempt has been made to be polite, tactful, and not try to _______ (insert blank) that gears were switched to communicate the message for a individual/s that just don't get it.
Then take it to pm. Because it makes you look like an......well I'm not gonna say it because I don't want to be banned.
"I went to CAPTalk and asked a question in the (xyz) forum.... and the next thing I knew, nine lieutenants, five captains, three majors, and one very fat colonel who called me a... "cheeky fellow" all started sending me PM's!. I ran for my LIFE!"
Yeah... THERE'S a lawsuit waiting to happen.
(bonus points to anyone who gets the reference) :D
On top of that....PMS to cadets under the new CPP will be problematic.
Quote from: johnnyb47 on August 22, 2013, 05:49:03 PM
Quote from: stillamarine on August 22, 2013, 04:53:41 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on August 22, 2013, 02:35:05 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 21, 2013, 09:14:55 PM
The point is being tactful and professional when correcting anyone. Far too many people here are more about "one-upsmanship" than correcting people for faux pas. Every post we write should be written as if the National Commander is reading it and that it is being written by a responsible CAP officer or cadet. Why, because that is integrity. If someone posts a reply that is steeped in banality or vitriol...don't negate your high ground by contributing to that. Instead send a private messagse to them and threadsters that reply in the wrong. Don't make a scene that reflects the base levels if humanity. Don't attack people or be smug. Debate...do not argue. Solve problems, do not add to them. Correct the misinformation of know-it-alls...don't become worse then them with arrogance of your own.
Sir, I can agree with the bulk of what you are saying but truthfully sometimes you just have to be blunt and to the point with people. Being that MajGen Carr is a prior defender I am sure that he would understand reading here that when the attempt has been made to be polite, tactful, and not try to _______ (insert blank) that gears were switched to communicate the message for a individual/s that just don't get it.
Then take it to pm. Because it makes you look like an......well I'm not gonna say it because I don't want to be banned.
"I went to CAPTalk and asked a question in the (xyz) forum.... and the next thing I knew, nine lieutenants, five captains, three majors, and one very fat colonel who called me a... "cheeky fellow" all started sending me PM's!. I ran for my LIFE!"
Yeah... THERE'S a lawsuit waiting to happen.
(bonus points to anyone who gets the reference) :D
The Patriot - Benjamin Martin to General Cornwallis
Quote from: stillamarine on August 22, 2013, 04:53:41 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on August 22, 2013, 02:35:05 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 21, 2013, 09:14:55 PM
The point is being tactful and professional when correcting anyone. Far too many people here are more about "one-upsmanship" than correcting people for faux pas. Every post we write should be written as if the National Commander is reading it and that it is being written by a responsible CAP officer or cadet. Why, because that is integrity. If someone posts a reply that is steeped in banality or vitriol...don't negate your high ground by contributing to that. Instead send a private messagse to them and threadsters that reply in the wrong. Don't make a scene that reflects the base levels if humanity. Don't attack people or be smug. Debate...do not argue. Solve problems, do not add to them. Correct the misinformation of know-it-alls...don't become worse then them with arrogance of your own.
Sir, I can agree with the bulk of what you are saying but truthfully sometimes you just have to be blunt and to the point with people. Being that MajGen Carr is a prior defender I am sure that he would understand reading here that when the attempt has been made to be polite, tactful, and not try to _______ (insert blank) that gears were switched to communicate the message for a individual/s that just don't get it.
Then take it to pm. Because it makes you look like an......well I'm not gonna say it because I don't want to be banned.
Sure as soon as their parent/s sign up for an account here and can be cc'd.
See my post two above on that. >:D
The bottom line is for people on this forum to "behave" in an appropriate manner when making discussions or debates on topics. All too often, as I have stated previously, it becomes more about that "high" a person thinks they get when they reply in a "grandiose" manner and revel in the replies. Do not kid yourself, there is a high that distracts us when we are being passionate. Ben Franklin said it best, "passion governs, and she never governs wisely."
This is where one needs to become a person of thought. If you have something to say, do it "critically" (based on knowledge, working understanding, applciation, analysis and systhesis) so one can "step back" and evaluate their comment "before" it is made.
Yes, you have the right to an opinion, but you negate your position by bring banality into the equasion.
I find it odd many of you are arguing for banality, as it it was some virtue that helped us along...or built character. On the contray, it does the exact opposite with the additional problem off allowing people across the web to read the "salvos" across the gulf of misunderstanding.
As for cadets...
I think a good way to get in trouble is to start "calling them out" or calling them names. You are, after all, attacking someone's "baby" who is a minor. There is only a hollow victory in slamming a 14 year old when you are over 30. They lack experience, they make faux pas and they make bad judgements from time to time because they start with 1) the inferiority complex brought on by wanting to please the people on here (after all, the National Commander may read this) and 2) a deep seeded need to respond to perceived insults.
If you "call them out," many do not have the tact to reply with reason, we then have the problem of their "free emotional outburst" triggering our need for what duelists used to call "satisfaction."
Maybe cadets need not be posting here? Especially if there is something no longer jiving with cadet protection policies and good convention.
That said, there are those posting with out identity or under false identity who say things just to rile you all up. Sometimes, many times...they are very effective in making others "lose their cool," The result reflects badly on CAP.
I'm under 30! Guess I can still get some satisfaction out of it!
Perhaps another way .. would you (being whoever), "act like this, at your meeting, standing in front of the room?" when talking to command, subordinates, anyone?
If no, then why are you posting it online?
.. as I think of some of the things I see going on currently on some of the non-official CAP orientate Facebook pages.
Some of the comments from cadets is sketchy at best. Though I see the threads where CAPIDs of a few members of the Legislative Squadron were displayed in screenshots, and followed by some questionable, unprofessional comments, are gone.
Social Media is the 10 ton gorilla that will never be contained.
Sir, a good majority of the cadets who come here and post and ask questions do so and do not carry the tude displayed by a few and especially the latest one. From what I have seen poster will respond and act in an appropriate manner with regard to all involved.
There are fauz pa's and mistakes made, it's when cadets do not see the error of their ways and keep going that usually results in the change of approach. Mistakes can be and from what I have seen here are forgive when the party in general owns up to what they did and humbles themselves.
Calling people out well, sorry but that's life if a person whether it be cadet or senior can't or won't accept being called out on their behavior especially when they are blatantly in the wrong then they will have a rough road ahead of them, especially when being called out is part of them being held accountable for what they have done or said.
Can some of the comments members have posted be construed as harsh, sure but I will say that many times the said target of those comments were well deserving of them.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 22, 2013, 08:00:59 PM
I'm under 30! Guess I can still get some satisfaction out of it!
I was waiting for a post like this, Logan. Youth is no excuse for uncouth! 20-Something is where and when you define yourself. By the way, Carrousel is a lie!
Quote from: abdsp51 on August 22, 2013, 08:51:46 PM
Calling people out well, sorry but that's life if a person whether it be cadet or senior can't or won't accept being called out on their behavior especially when they are blatantly in the wrong then they will have a rough road ahead of them, especially when being called out is part of them being held accountable for what they have done or said.
Can some of the comments members have posted be construed as harsh, sure but I will say that many times the said target of those comments were well deserving of them.
Calling people out in a private setting for the purpose of learning and correcting wrong information...GOOD!
Calling people out publically for the purpose of "getting their goat" or "making an example, well... NOT SO MUCH!
I have long noted that many Cadets and New CAP Senior Members come here asking for help. They legitimately have questions. Since they are ignorant (not possessing of CAP culture, vocabulary and familiarity) "search features" only make them more confused. They come here, with a viable question on a subject expecting to be helped by "brother and sister CAP airmen." The result is usually a very curt... "go look it up" or "this is beating a dead horse." The result is that they either never come back (sometimes it just turns them off to CAP period and now we lost some one) or they are now always on the defensive.
It is also a situation in here that there are some people who can carry any opinion, idea or make almost any remark with nothing more than a chuckle or good natured agreement or disagreement. Whereas, a newbie will make a remark and suffer the slings and arrows of the full force of "salvo." I will chalk that up to those older threadsters having "earned some forum 'capital'" and, due to experience in the forum and through observation of personality. However, we cannot "eat our young." When new people come in to the forum welcome them. Don't start, immediately, forming an ironclad opinion based on some initial thing they said that was contrary to your position on the subject.
As for cadets in this forum. I have no objection to their presense and welcome their contributions pending two things 1) they exercise propriety and civility and 2) CAP national policy changes forbidding such contacts between cadets and senior that give the perception of lacking propriety.
Be civil to one another. Cadets are people too, so are Senior Members who come here. Remember the core value of respect.
When I first came here back in the day my initial reception was one of less than cordial expression form some. My use of vocabulary gave off an arrogant tone (I guess) and my wearing of a service cap made cause some to label me (to the point of being lambasted as "sparky." I took that insult and made it myown. I also learned that I needed to put great care into my posts and remind myself to be CIVIL. Sometimes I am good at that, other times I fail at it...but the call for the "high road" is always in my mind.
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 22, 2013, 09:07:02 PM
Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 22, 2013, 08:00:59 PM
I'm under 30! Guess I can still get some satisfaction out of it!
I was waiting for a post like this, Logan. Youth is no excuse for uncouth! 20-Something is where and when you define yourself. By the way, Carrousel is a lie!
Who's Logan?
Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 23, 2013, 01:22:41 AM
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 22, 2013, 09:07:02 PM
Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 22, 2013, 08:00:59 PM
I'm under 30! Guess I can still get some satisfaction out of it!
I was waiting for a post like this, Logan. Youth is no excuse for uncouth! 20-Something is where and when you define yourself. By the way, Carrousel is a lie!
Who's Logan?
Look it up...lol There is a clue in the post. See if you can find it...as an exercise. It should be easy. Happy Googeling! You will find it fitting to some of your posts.
Heh, nice!
Seems like a typical, lame, 70s sci-fi flick. Lame.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 23, 2013, 01:51:52 AM
Seems like a typical, lame, 70s sci-fi flick. Lame.
If you are talking about the referenced movie, you've outed yourself as the worst form of heretic. ;)
Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 22, 2013, 05:52:23 PM
On top of that....PMS to cadets under the new CPP will be problematic.
Uhhhh...what now? PMS? Cadets are too young to suffer from that.
Quote from: SarDragon on August 23, 2013, 01:56:21 AM
Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 23, 2013, 01:51:52 AM
Seems like a typical, lame, 70s sci-fi flick. Lame.
If you are talking about the referenced movie, you've outed yourself as the worst form of heretic. ;)
That is a shame, some say these generations have no sense of pop culture beyond the limits of a year or two. By the way, that movie came out the year I was born.
LOL ..
I don't think he meant that.
However, no, they are not. Anyway. ;-)
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 23, 2013, 02:02:17 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on August 23, 2013, 01:56:21 AM
Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 23, 2013, 01:51:52 AM
Seems like a typical, lame, 70s sci-fi flick. Lame.
If you are talking about the referenced movie, you've outed yourself as the worst form of heretic. ;)
That is a shame, some say these generations have no sense of pop culture beyond the limits of a year or two. By the way, that movie came out the year I was born.
Oh I've seen plenty of decent sci-fi films from the 50s, 60s, and 70s. This one just sound so...cliche.
Actually, that film, along with Soylent Green, Fail Safe, Omega Man, Andromeda Strain, and others from the same era
are as much or more relevent now then they were when they were made, not to mention that a lot (most?) apocalyptic fiction these
days are just variations on those themes.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 23, 2013, 02:25:26 AM
Actually, that film, along with Soylent Green, Fail Safe, Omega Man, Andromeda Strain, and others from the same era
are as much or more relevent now then they were when they were made, not to mention that a lot (most?) apocalyptic fiction these
days are just variations on those themes.
A number of Stargate shows (yes, multiple shows) episodes sound just like this. Obviously may have been inspiration. Still hated them.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 23, 2013, 02:25:26 AM
Actually, that film, along with Soylent Green, Fail Safe, Omega Man, Andromeda Strain, and others from the same era
are as much or more relevent now then they were when they were made, not to mention that a lot (most?) apocalyptic fiction these
days are just variations on those themes.
I agree, additionally, they have iconic scenes that are even referenced on contemporary programs like "Family Guy" and "Futurama." A person not in tune with these references must miss lots of those jokes. One reason I became a teacher was to further the cause of knowledge. The more you know, the richer life if. But don't turn into Cliff Clavin.
Quote from: Garibaldi on August 23, 2013, 01:57:35 AM
Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 22, 2013, 05:52:23 PM
On top of that....PMS to cadets under the new CPP will be problematic.
Uhhhh...what now? PMS? Cadets are too young to suffer from that.
Wanna bet? I had a 17 yo in my squadron in Japan who was sharp as a tack except for that four days in her cycle. This was something her parents brought up to us, so it wasn't some teenage invention.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 23, 2013, 01:51:52 AM
Seems like a typical, lame, 70s sci-fi flick. Lame.
WOW...I just saw a take on "Logan's Run" on the "Annoying Orange" show my daughters were watching. Hummmmmmm? ;)
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 24, 2013, 06:34:13 PM
Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 23, 2013, 01:51:52 AM
Seems like a typical, lame, 70s sci-fi flick. Lame.
WOW...I just saw a take on "Logan's Run" on the "Annoying Orange" show my daughters were watching. Hummmmmmm? ;)
Burn it with fire? You claim to want to teach culture, and let you kids watch that!?
Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 24, 2013, 06:55:13 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 24, 2013, 06:34:13 PM
Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 23, 2013, 01:51:52 AM
Seems like a typical, lame, 70s sci-fi flick. Lame.
WOW...I just saw a take on "Logan's Run" on the "Annoying Orange" show my daughters were watching. Hummmmmmm? ;)
Burn it with fire? You claim to want to teach culture, and let you kids watch that!?
All things, with guidance, are meaningful. I keep an eye on what they watch and have encouraged them to ask "questions" if they have them and I answer them as honestly as possible. The point is that there are things in culture and pop culture that a person has to know in order to understand and infer things. How much richer life is when you know things.