Best steel for a knife?

[Eclipse]

Just about any edge weapon or knife you buy from general sources these days is 440-stainless steel.

I recall from my days in the 80's and 90's, when I cared about such things, being told 440 was "junk" because it was "brittle and impossible to sharpen", and anything "decent" was high-carbon steel, with its need for more care from rust, etc.

I've carried this notion for a couple of decades, noting with disdain anything I pick up that's 440.

Opinions?

[mprokosch11]

I've always been a huge fan of Buck Knives. The last one I bought had a 420 High Carbon blade. I love it, very easy to sharpen and it has held its edge well.

From what I heard any knife with only stainless steel in it holds its edge longer, but is a son of gun to sharpen.

Anything with carbon in it is generally more expensive and easier to sharpen.

Then again I'm no expert

[Trung Si Ma]

I was issued an early one of these (http://sogknives.com/store/S1T.html) back in the early 70's and have carried it litterally everywhere since.  Good knife.  I think it is a high carbon steel, but the newer ones are someting else - what the hell type of metal is AUS8?

[IceNine]

AUS-8: A Japanese made medium-carbon, high chromium stainless steel

AUS-8 sounds exotic, even if it's actualy a cheaper steel than 440C

Apparently it isn't much better than AF survival knives.  Very easily sharpened, very easily dulled.

[SarDragon]

I was issued an early one of these (http://sogknives.com/store/S1T.html) back in the early 70's and have carried it litterally everywhere since.  Good knife.  I think it is a high carbon steel, but the newer ones are someting else - what the hell type of metal is AUS8?

AUS-8: A Japanese made medium-carbon, high chromium stainless steel, which offers a good balance of toughness, edge sharpness and corrosion resistance.

From here or here.

[_]

High Carbon Steel: Easily sharpened to a very sharp edge.  Taking a couple seconds with a sharpening stone will give you a very nice edge.  It is softer and will tend to become dull much more easily and it's easier to damage the blade if misused.  It is also essential to coat them with mineral oil to prevent rusting.  There is a type of high-carbon blade called a laminated blade.  In a laminated blade a piece of harder steel is surrounded by softer steel.  The softer steel allows for the easy sharpening and the hard steel provides extra strength.  High-carbon steel knives are often a favorite of bushcraft people.  From what I've seen the prefered knives are those made by Frost.  The knives are generally known as Mora knives because of the city in Sweden where they're made.  These knives are also quite cheap.

These are the one's I own:
Frost Clipper (can be found with a laminated blade)
The iconic Mora knife (laminated blade)

I generally carry a stainless steel knife on missions.  The quality of even cheaper stainless steel knives is very good.  I would stick with a known company such as Gerber, Buck, or something along those lines.  I carry a stainless steel blade because I want a sturdy and robust blade that if need be I can abuse some and get away with it where as with a high-carbon blade you may destroy the blade.  It takes a little while to get it really sharp but it'll hold up better than a high-carbon blade.

[Timbo]

Some kind of German steel is best.  According to Goodwin's Law it is most likely Nazi Steel.  Since a thread I was really interested in got hijacked by some Nazi conversations, I will be the first to get to the eventual conclusion.........German steel produced by the Nazis.

Actually.....German and Japanese steel is the best today.  We (the United States of America) actually created the manufacturing process and helped build the Japanese and German Steel industries in the 1950's and 1960's.  So technically American Steel is best.  Unfortunately we have very few steel plants left in this country.  We export more steel for recycling to Japan then we make, and then we buy it from them. 

Wow......terrible drift, I am terribly sorry.  Don't lock this or Eclipse will hate me.

Best steel.....German.  I just don't like supporting Japan, their scary movies, scare me. 

[N Harmon]

I recall from my days in the 80's and 90's, when I cared about such things, being told 440 was "junk" because it was "brittle and impossible to sharpen", and anything "decent" was high-carbon steel, with its need for more care from rust, etc.

I think 440 steel is considered high-carbon steel.

[sardak]

Anything with carbon in it is generally more expensive and easier to sharpen.

All steel includes carbon.

440C is "high-carbon" steel. From a metallurgical standpoint, "high-carbon" steel is generally considered to be steel with more than 0.5% carbon. 440C has 1.2% carbon.

"High carbon steel" is used to mean higher grades of non-stainless, non-alloy steel, and not high-carbon from the metallurgical view. Steel is generally grouped as stainless, carbon and alloy.

From a guide to steels: "Grade 440C is capable of attaining, after heat treatment, the highest strength, hardness and wear resistance of all the stainless alloys. Its very high carbon content is responsible for these characteristics..."
440 also comes in grades A and B, which have less carbon, with 440A having the lowest carbon content.

Good explanations of steel used in knife blades:
http://www.knifeart.com/steelfaqbyjo.html

http://users.ameritech.net/knives/steels.htm

http://www.agrussell.com/Articles/a/4/

Frost Knives. Their Laminated blade is explained under "Quality" and there is more about blade materials under "Knife Care," then "Professionals."
http://www.frosts.se/index_2_uk.html

Mike

[ol'fido]

Generally, I don't worry about what steel I'm using as long as it comes from a reputable manufacturer sauch as Gerber, Buck, Cold Steel, Victorinox, etc. What I usually worry more about are cadets AND seniors who show up at missions/bivouacs with the Flea Market special, made in China, looks really neat combination survival knife, flare gun, whistle, can opener, and bugle.

Personally, I use a Victornox Rucksack lockback or Gerber Gator for a pocket knife, Gerber Scout for a Multi-tool, Buck Vanguard or Cold steel Master Hunter for a field knife, and a Ontario Knives Spec-Plus Bolo(discontinued sadly) for brush clearing and shelter building type chores.

Currently, I am in the process of trimming down a Ontario Knives Old Hickory 7 1/2" butcher knife into a handy little 5" drop point to use as my field knife. This knife is old fashioned high carbon steel and costs currently about $10. Got the idea from Backwoodsman magazine last fall.

I guess I prefer high carbon steel but as I said I will use anything as long as I trust the manufacturer.

[IceNine]

^ and that's probably as valid a reason to choose a knife as any.

Unless you plan on treating abusing this thing (which knowing you I personally doubt).  You will be good to go with just about any reputable source that you choose you use.

From everything I have found the best option that you can currently choose is K2 Steel which is used in a vast majority of the chef's knives.  It is very close to stainless, easily sharpened, and holds its edge better than other types of steel.

Ka-bar makes a few knives that use this metal.

[Senior]

sardak has started a good explanation of steels for knifeblades. :clap:

I would like to say that the best all around field knife is the USAF pilot survival knife.  It is made from a 10XX series carbon steel.  That is its simplicity.  Simplicity is what you want in a survival situation.  You can sharpen that knife with a piece of sand stone from a creek.  You can sharpen that knife on a concrete floor.  You could sharpen that knife with a piece of sandpaper on a flat surface.  You could use sand grit with water to make a slurry on a hard flat surface to sharpen that knife.  It also has
the hammerhead and sawback for cutting notches for lashing and building
shelter.

The best steel for a knife is a big question to answer.  It seems simple, but
it comes down to this old and overused statement "it all depends".

It all depends on the use intended for the knife. Chopping, intricate
cutting, cleaning, skinning, dressing out animals, cleaning fish, and the list
goes on. 

I would choose a knife blade that is made a 10XX series carbon steel for
ease of sharpening, and maintenance.

So, now that is clear .  Stay away from exotic metals like D-2 and CPM
type steels.  These two metals will hold an edge for a long time but chip
easily.  You have to have a diamond sharpening stone to sharpen these
steels, non diamond stones won't touch these steels. 

If your knife blade seems to dull easily look at what your cutting.  Is the
knife steel appropriate for the job?  The angle at which the blade is held
to the sharpening stone does matter and has to be held consistently throughout the sharpening process.  A sharp cutting edge with normal use can be maintained with those ceramic type fixed angle sharpeners.  If you run this type of sharpener over the blade periodically it will extend the use of the knife between major sharpening.

To those who abuse or really "use" their knives.  Consider this mind set,
a knife is a tool.  A knife can also be used to make other tools. With a little
planning and forthought you can have the right tool for the job.

Don't be like Survivor Dude: DO NOT lash your only cutting edge to a pole
to make a spear, use your knife to sharpen a stick, now that is your spear.
DO NOT stick your knife in the ground.  What happens when you hit that
rock 2 inches below the surface and it breaks the tip off of your 300.00
D-2 super dooper knife(That is an expensive rock)?  DO NOT abuse your
knife, unless you are saving yourself or someone from a burning car, house.

You can buy little pry bars (pocket size) from big box stores.  You can buy short little hand axes to cut wood.  I can't believe in the knife magazines some "expert"  is using a  large folder or small fixed blade with a piece of
kindling as a hammer to split another piece of kindling.  I would use the
appropriate tool called an axe

Stick with pocket knife from an established company, no longer that 3 inch
inches or a multi-tool and fixed blade no more than 5 inches.  Buck, Gerber, Ontario are all good companies that make excellent field knives(tools).

Look at the website ProfessionalSoldier.com, scroll to Edged weapons, then
look at first sticky for an excellent discussion of blade steel. 
Quiet Professional is vernacular for a Special Forces Soldier(the real deal).
If you want to read some interesting flaming, look under the heading:
"Your rucksack is in the hallway"

[IceNine]

I would like to say that the best all around field knife is the USAF pilot survival knife.  It is made from a 10XX series carbon steel.  That is its simplicity.  Simplicity is what you want in a survival situation.  You can sharpen that knife with a piece of sand stone from a creek.  You can sharpen that knife on a concrete floor.  You could sharpen that knife with a piece of sandpaper on a flat surface.  You could use sand grit with water to make a slurry on a hard flat surface to sharpen that knife.  It also has
the hammerhead and sawback for cutting notches for lashing and building
shelter.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH!H!H!HSHHAHAHAH
I simply can't remember the last time I laughed that hard, those things are absolute junk.  And even more useless for what we do.

We don't need something that we can survive with, we need something that will hold an edge for a couple days while we wander through the woods. 

For this specific need the best option is a stronger knife that may take a little/lot more to sharpen but will hold up to the rigors of building tents, cutting cord, maybe cutting some small branches.

[Senior]

I disagree that the pilot survival knife is junk.  I have used this type of knife
in the field for CAP field work, including to build shelters at PJOC and APJOC.  I have also used this knife in the field while in the US ARMY.  This knife is a well designed tool to make other tools. It is easy to sharpen and very sturdy.  The thread is about knife steels.  I gave my opinion from real
experience and from my background as a tool and die maker.  I work with steel everyday, including heat treated steels used for cutting edges.  I don't think anyone can go wrong with a pilot survival knife in their pack and a multi-tool and/or folding pocket knife on their web gear. 

[ol'fido]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Personally, I don't like the AF Survival Knife but that's just me. If there were a perfect knife or knife steel, we wouldn't have catalogues full of knives. Everybody would just have the same knife. When I was in the Army, I actually had more uses for a good Leatherman than I did anything else. The M9 bayonet was a pain in the you know what to carry around and clean  after a 10 day ex-eval. This doesn't mean I would throw it away in a survival situation though.

I like high carbon steels because of their price, utility, and ease of sharpening.  As I said before, the knife I am currently working on cost about $10(actually I think it was $5.95 several years ago at Wally World. And also as I said I have several different knives or blades for different chores. You can't clean a squirrel with a samurai sword.

I cannot emphasize enough though the importance of getting a simple, rugged, handy(not big, not tiny) knife from a quality manufacturer that is comfortable for you to use. It should "fit" your hand and be well balanced. If the knife feels awkward in your hand, the more likely an accident is. After that,  whichever steel you end up with  will probably suit you just fine.

P.S. You could probably go out and buy a $300-$500 dollar knife of some exotic steel, but I'd be afraid to use it in the field in case something did happen to it.

[Senior]

Knife design and the choice of steels is always a compromise.  The USAF
survival knife is a compromise in design and use.  I wish it was a little heavier for chopping and had a serrated portion of the blade.  The weight would be an issue in the cockpit.  The new redesigned pilot survival knife
may have addressed some of these issues.  I was giving my opinion of
steels since I have experience as a tool and die maker.  I was also sharing
a little experience to try to convince some of the new members and especially the cadets that you don't need to spend a lot of money on a
super dooper do everything gizmo knife. 

The M-9 bayonets we had were a pain to use.  The large bevel on the knife
made it hard to cut almost anything.  I used my Leatherman more than
anything in the Army and CAP. 

I wouldn't use a 300.00-600.00 dollar knife in the field. That would make
for a bad day when you did something to it.  My dream knife would be a
Randall Made Knife Company , Number 14.  Yes it cost around 500.00 dollars. 

[ol'fido]

Unfortunately, most cadets are so enthusiastic about buying a real gee whiz knife, that they run out and buy one of the flea market specials that breaks in the first 5 minutes. Just this Christmas, I saw a friend giving someone one of those el cheapo Rambo knives that they sell for about $15-25. You know... the one that looks like the AF Survival knife but has the pop bottle opener notch with the saw tooth back and the end of the hilt unscrews to put stuff in. The butt cap also has a compass in the looks like it was stolen off the dash of an RV. I was polite and didn't say anything but those are just junk. And unfortunately that is what people show up with until they have been to the field for a while and learn what works and doesn't. It isn't a matter of choosing high carbon, 440, or D-2 steel, it's waiting to buy until you know what's quality and saving up to afford it.

[Senior]

Olefido the thread is about the "best steel" for a knife.  I gave my opinion
and advice based on real experience as a soldier, CAP member and a tool
and die maker.
I am trying to give info to everyone else that reads this thread on the most affordable and quality tools for use in CAP.  I would hope others would
share with members, cadet and seniors, on the multi-tool/pocket knife,
carbon steel blade variation.  We as Senior members should educate ourselves about tools and proper usage.  We should then tell those cadets
BEFORE they waste their money what to buy and why.

I haven't seen one of those "survival" knives in years.  They are absolute
junk.

Chinese made knives are everywhere, Gerber, Leatherman pocket knives,
and other reputable companies sell knives made in China under their brand names.  Even though Gerber etc. have knives made in China those reputable companies are still good quality versus the flea market type