Jewish Holidays and CAP Activities

[RiverAux]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of automatically writing off Sunday as an acceptable SAREX day.  We have too few weekend days in the year to lose half of them as potential training days. 

[Cecil DP]

The on-line SLS mentioned in another forum is a prime example of how we can manage training and PD when there is a conflict over dates or religious belief.

[Gunner C]

The on-line SLS mentioned in another forum is a prime example of how we can manage training and PD when there is a conflict over dates or religious belief.

Actually, it's just accommodating chaplains.  NHQ never considered accommodating anyone else's religious beliefs.  I have sabbath duties, just as chaplains do, but I wouldn't have been eligible for the online course (I wouldn't take it, either).

[Cecil DP]

Mu understanding is that while it's currently open only to chaplains, it would eventually be open to the general membership or under special circumstances.

SLS On-line (for Chaplains)
(31 Aug 09)

On-line SLS: Now available to chaplains. Chaplains may register through this link or go to the On-line Courses & Exams page in CAP University.  On-line SLS will soon be open to all eligible candidates who would not otherwise be able to attend in residence.  Please note that the primary method of completing SLS is in residence and the on-line option is primarily for those who can not attend in residence.

PD Staff

[Gunner C]

Horrible idea to make separate classes of members like that.  Of course, the chaplains believe they are a separate class.

[DBlair]

The on-line SLS mentioned in another forum is a prime example of how we can manage training and PD when there is a conflict over dates or religious belief.

With the way so many things are now online for CAP, I'm kind of surprised we haven't transitioned completely to online training, be it online videos, or other materials which could accomplish the training without members have to drive several hours each way and get a hotel or perhaps not be able to participate due to religious issues.

It just seems like the availability of an online version of training classes would be ideal to reach more members, considering that it would be cost effective, available on-demand, and wouldn't have travel or scheduling difficulties.

Any thoughts?

[SarDragon]

There are some courses, because of their nature, that really need the face-to-face environment that classroom instruction provides. SLS, CLC, RSC, and NSC come imediately to mind. Any type of instructor training course is another. ACUT is another. All of these have portions that require personal interaction that cannot be achieved in an online course on a nationwide basis, either in the form of discussion, or practical work.

Additionally, some folks just don't learn well in an online environment. There's no one to answer questions, there's little "student management", and not much of an effective feedback mechanism.

The Navy used to have "self-paced" courses that relied primarily on computer-based instruction, and they were canned after a few years, because the quality of the graduates wasn't acceptable for the reasons above.

[Cecil DP]

The on-line SLS mentioned in another forum is a prime example of how we can manage training and PD when there is a conflict over dates or religious belief.

With the way so many things are now online for CAP, I'm kind of surprised we haven't transitioned completely to online training, be it online videos, or other materials which could accomplish the training without members have to drive several hours each way and get a hotel or perhaps not be able to participate due to religious issues.

It just seems like the availability of an online version of training classes would be ideal to reach more members, considering that it would be cost effective, available on-demand, and wouldn't have travel or scheduling difficulties.

Any thoughts?

Though I posted the message supporting the use of the on-line SLS for those who couldn't attend the class as usually conducted on weekends. I do believe this is a last resort. I would prefer that an occassional SLS or CLC be held on weekdays possibly 4 hours a week over a month.

[Major Carrales]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of automatically writing off Sunday as an acceptable SAREX day.  We have too few weekend days in the year to lose half of them as potential training days.

I agree, Sunday should be utilized...and normally is in Texas. 

It has been my experience that in Texas the Friday is used to move aircraft and run a small number of exercises (could be done by "Sunday" Christians freeing up Jews and "Saturday" Christians...which exist because I know a great many for their religious obligation), Saturday is the bulk of training (for Sunday Christians) and Sunday is for the overflow and can run just like Saturday only on Sunday with the returns (for Jews and "Saturday" Christians)  Seems like every one wins if they look at it that way.

I also note that businesses operate on both Christian and Jewish holidays.  Could it be that the one group fills in for the other while they are attending religious needs.  Now, I am going to use a term here that may provoke some reprisal because I understand that in Yiddish circles the latter word can be used as a pejorative for Gentiles.  But as I understand it there can be such a thing as a "Shabat Goy," a person, non-Jewish, who is contracted, or by understanding, to conduct work in an Orthodox home on the sabbath.  Seems like my above solution would follow that model.

Also, Sunday is a sort of Secular "Sabbath" built on traditions that once were Christian, however are now simply a "day off as part of the weekend."

[Gunner C]

The on-line SLS mentioned in another forum is a prime example of how we can manage training and PD when there is a conflict over dates or religious belief.

With the way so many things are now online for CAP, I'm kind of surprised we haven't transitioned completely to online training, be it online videos, or other materials which could accomplish the training without members have to drive several hours each way and get a hotel or perhaps not be able to participate due to religious issues.

It just seems like the availability of an online version of training classes would be ideal to reach more members, considering that it would be cost effective, available on-demand, and wouldn't have travel or scheduling difficulties.

Any thoughts?

Though I posted the message supporting the use of the on-line SLS for those who couldn't attend the class as usually conducted on weekends. I do believe this is a last resort. I would prefer that an occassional SLS or CLC be held on weekdays possibly 4 hours a week over a month.

There are all sorts of combinations that could work - if the chaplains were actually sincere about this, which I believe they are not (not necessarily individually, but as a group). 

I was a training developer for the Special Warfare Center.  There was a good deal of training that we distributed by CD and on the net.  But this type of training was NEVER a candidate.  There's too much value in the group learning experience and too little of it comes through on the net, DVD, or other types of distributed training.

The chaplains corps needs to kept on a short leash.  Find another way to get this training or just do without.

[arajca]

The chaplains corps needs to kept on a short leash.  Find another way to get this training or just do without.

I don't know about the short leash, but it is extremely disingenuous that the Chaplain Corps accepted that they need to do the same PD as every other senior member, then get an exception because of scheduling difficulties.

Sure, they're busy. So is every other senior member, but we can make time for this if we feel it is important. There is nothing stopping a chaplain from directing an SLS or CLC on a schedule the accommodates their needs.

In short, everyone has schedule conflicts. Everyone has to deal with it. Religious folks are no exception. If a course director doesn't take your particular schedule (religious or otherwise) into account when setting up a course, set one up yourself. Take the initative. Besides, directing courses is required for PD advancement.

[a2capt]

...
If a course director doesn't take your particular schedule (religious or otherwise) into account when setting up a course, set one up yourself

Who says the SLS / CLC or whatever two day course must be on a Sunday?

Or Saturday?

The clergy never get a day off? Don't try and sell me that one. There are plenty of fill ins within the community. They all help each other out.

I've been to plenty of SLS/CLCs and other PD activities as staff, after being a student at them, and you know what?

Every one of them has had a chaplain there, if not taking the course, certainly there on Sundays leading a service or gathering in the morning and staying the whole day.

So.. obviously it worked for them to find time. 

[Lt Oliv]

...
If a course director doesn't take your particular schedule (religious or otherwise) into account when setting up a course, set one up yourself

Who says the SLS / CLC or whatever two day course must be on a Sunday?

Or Saturday?

The clergy never get a day off? Don't try and sell me that one. There are plenty of fill ins within the community. They all help each other out.

I've been to plenty of SLS/CLCs and other PD activities as staff, after being a student at them, and you know what?

Every one of them has had a chaplain there, if not taking the course, certainly there on Sundays leading a service or gathering in the morning and staying the whole day.

So.. obviously it worked for them to find time.

This thread is actually starting to irritate me for comments like this, so I will make one post and one post only.

I am a Conservative Jew.  My wife is a Conservative Rabbi and a CAP Chaplain. 

In our town, there are two Rabbis.  One is Reform, the other Conservative. 

Saturday is out for all CAP Activities, for both of us.  We don't demand that things be scheduled around us, we just don't attend activities on Saturday.  On Sunday, my wife still works with evening services and often some sort of day activity. 

Ideally, she gets Monday off.  In an aging congregation, we have gone three MONTHS without her having a day off because a funeral automatically cancels any plans for time away from the synagogue. 

So back off Chaplains.  They don't always have someone who can cover them.  And unlike you, my and the rest of secular society, don't have two consecutive days off her week with which they can simply get away from the office. 

My Group has Commanders Call on Saturdays.  I do not attend, I catch up with the Commander at the next group meeting.  No problem.

Airshow work tends to start on Friday night and into Saturday, I don't go. 

I do attend meetings, I also perform all of the duties of my current assignment.  I have not had one complaint.  I keep kosher, but I don't expect everyone in my group to do the same.  If I show up and they are serving non-kosher meat (even if that meat is beef, chicken or turkey), I just don't eat it.  I don't kick up a fuss and whine about it.  I eat at my house or in establishments which are under the supervision of a Rabbi.

However, if I noticed that everything was scheduled on Saturday, I'd probably leave.  Moreover, I wouldn't talk up the organization when I'm with friends.  As a result, CAP will lose current members and the possibility of new members because I would be quite vocal were it not "Jewish friendly." 

But that has not happened.  There is a big difference between scheduling so as to completely exclude members of a particular religion or religious class (Saturday Sabbath Observers) and simply employing days that many people have off anyway.  We're big Jewish boys and girls, we know what we can go to and what we cannot.  We don't need CAP to try to cater to us, and we really don't need people to be offended for us for a perceived slight.

[AirDX]

^Yay, Ollie!  :clap:

I'm going to refer to the CAP core values again, in particular, Respect.

Everyone in this thread needs to lighten up.  Some folks, because of their beliefs, can't or won't participate in CAP activities on some days.  Some folks can't participate in CAP activities on certain days becasue of work.  Oh well!  Welcome them when they can participate.  If we can, make accomodations so that all can participate on some level, but geez.... have some respect!

[Jill]

Ollie,

Thank you for your post.  I am Reformed and my husband is Conservative.  We attend what we can, when we can. 

[Cecil DP]

Great post Ollie. To qoute Sir Charlie Chaplain " I don't have the honor of being Jewish", but I think you spoke for everyone who has a religious or professional conflicts with the CAP schedule. 

[Jill]

Ollie,

By the way,  our cousin is a Rabbi.  I understand your wife's demands.  Especially in regards to funerals.  Many do not understand jewish law and what is required.

Enjoy the celebration of ראש השנה .

Jill

[Jill]

By the way, my husband is Rick Finkelstein who was promoted to Major.

Goodnight...

Jill

[Spike]

Wow.....three pages and ??

I got lost about three times. 

[ol'fido]

Wow.....three pages and ??

I got lost about three times.

Well,.. at least it aint a uniform thread.