Transfer to composite squadron

[UH60guy]

I'm going to be moving in the next few months, and I'm looking at a list of squadrons in my new area. I've only been in CAP for two years, so I really only have seen how my unit is run, but I'd like to get an idea of what to expect when making my first squadron transfer.

I'm currently in a composite unit, but based on my very limited experience, I assume it could almost be a cadet unit- we only have about five other active seniors, about 50 cadets, and most activities are AE/CP in nature with very little ES.

The unit I was looking at is a composite squadron as well, but I saw a disclaimer on the site that the Seniors only meet three weeks per month, the cadets meet four weeks per month. To me, and coming from my background of a cadet-heavy unit, that sounds like it almost runs as two separate units. Is this a normal way to conduct business? Or is my perception of a segregated unit probably just in my head? Obviously I'll talk to them, but I'm trying to gather my thoughts and questions first in order to make more use of the discussion.

I've wanted to get more involved with ES, and it sounds like this might be a good opportunity. The drawback (again, all my own preconception) is that a potentially segregated composite unit could breed the GOBN and be a flying club in disguise. Granted, I've heard great things about the squadron when I was at other Wing events so I don't believe that's the case, but I'd appreciate any thoughts on what to ask in order to get a good feel for a new unit before investing too heavily and finalizing the transfer.

[a2capt]

Meets separately, or perhaps is it that the seniors largely don't show up on the scheduled PT meeting day?

[NIN]

Well I think it's a bit of a difference in population. I commanded 3 cadet squadrons and in one instance we combined with a senior squadron to form a Composite Squadron.

In that instance, several seniors who wanted to be more active started coming every week. The old guard of the unit clung to their once a month social calendar of meetings. That was fine, we found things for them to do that didn't require their presence at the cadet meetings on a weekly basis..

My present unit is a composite squadron and has been since its inception. It operates fundamentally like a cadet squadron with senior features. We have a couple three seniors who we only see at the monthly senior meetings. And that's fine.

If your duties require you to be at four meetings a month, then you will be likely at all four cadet meetings a month.

Maybe the deputy commander for seniors gets all of the seniors together three times a month as opposed to my unit the only does it once a month. I don't think it's an us versus them kind of situation, although it might be, but more of a different focus. If most of those seniors are air crew people, maybe they prefer to get together separately to discuss shooting down their wrist watches...

[Eclipse]

The unit I was looking at is a composite squadron as well, but I saw a disclaimer on the site that the Seniors only meet three weeks per month, the cadets meet four weeks per month. To me, and coming from my background of a cadet-heavy unit, that sounds like it almost runs as two separate units. Is this a normal way to conduct business? Or is my perception of a segregated unit probably just in my head? Obviously I'll talk to them, but I'm trying to gather my thoughts and questions first in order to make more use of the discussion.

"Normal"? No.  But not "unusual".  Your assessment about segregation is probably correct.

I've wanted to get more involved with ES, and it sounds like this might be a good opportunity. The drawback (again, all my own preconception) is that a potentially segregated composite unit could breed the GOBN and be a flying club in disguise. Granted, I've heard great things about the squadron when I was at other Wing events so I don't believe that's the case, but I'd appreciate any thoughts on what to ask in order to get a good feel for a new unit before investing too heavily and finalizing the transfer.

Just straight-up ask if the type of ES you're interested in is done much, and how.
Even if they fly a lot, there's no guarantee they are involved in ES.  There's more then a few out there who
burn plenty of C99 time and then let their phones go to voice mail for ES and O-Rides.

Ask them specifically about the recent missions and training they've done, and how call-ups are performed.
A lot of "hemming and hawing" or "we're working on that" will give you your answer, same goes if their
experience is blamed anywhere else but on themselves (Group, Wing, NHQ, etc.).

If they are excited about telling what they've recently done, great, if the time is spent more on what they
would like to do, listen with the filter on high.

[UH60guy]

If your duties require you to be at four meetings a month, then you will be likely at all four cadet meetings a month.

That's a good point... I can definitely see now how the aircrew stuff would be on a different schedule, and there's not as much need for adults not involved in herding cats managing the cadet program to meet as frequently.

Ask them specifically about the recent missions and training they've done, and how call-ups are performed.
A lot of "hemming and hawing" or "we're working on that" will give you your answer, same goes if their
experience is blamed anywhere else but on themselves (Group, Wing, NHQ, etc.).

If they are excited about telling what they've recently done, great, if the time is spent more on what they
would like to do, listen with the filter on high.

Excellent advice. Thanks.

[NIN]

Actually, I always preferred if the seniors who are not involved in herding cadets stayed the heck away ( from the cadet meetings, that is ) . Otherwise, I have to herd them as well

[Eclipse]

Actually, I always preferred if the seniors who are not involved in herding cadets stayed the heck away ( from the cadet meetings, that is ) . Otherwise, I have to herd them as well

Yeah - or they get "randomly involved", which usually results in "randomly told to knock it off".

Nothing better then a non-military, non-cadet, low-participation member who one day decides he's going to "help set those cadets straight".

[NIN]

Actually, I always preferred if the seniors who are not involved in herding cadets stayed the heck away ( from the cadet meetings, that is ) . Otherwise, I have to herd them as well

Yeah - or they get "randomly involved", which usually results in "randomly told to knock it off".

Nothing better then a non-military, non-cadet, low-participation member who one day decides he's going to "help set those cadets straight".

Thankfully, the ones I got who wanted to get "more involved" were usually malleable.

The "set in their ways" (and by "ways" I mean "the wrong ways") types didn't last too long at my unit. I think the got tired of being held to modern standards of uniform wear, behavior, customs and courtesies and participation.

[Walkman]

My first unit had all the seniors that weren't involved in CP meet separately. We recruited a bunch of pilots all at the same time and after they got through the initial L1/GES/MS work, they started only meeting twice a month for the aircrew work.

When I first started, I didn't have a job directly with cadets, and there wasn't a real SM program, so I spent a lot of time just hanging around. I like the idea of non-CP SMs having separate meetings.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Our unit used to have two meeting nights due to space issues.

[Eclipse]

It sounds good on paper, but it is very difficult in practice.  We did it that way when we brought cadets back  (hint)↑
to a composite squadron that had been running as a senior squadron for over a decade.

For one thing, it potentially forces the Commander, as well as key staffers, to have to double-up their commitment
to unit meetings.  It also breaks the esprit-de-corps, not to mention encouraging the mentality that there
are essentially "two CAPs", or that parts of the program are "optional".

I realize that in some cases there are logistical problems that force the issue, but I don't think doing it that way
should be considered the preference.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Agreed. And we did do the "first of the month" as a unit, and seats were high in demand.

[Storm Chaser]

In my squadron, we have single weekly meetings where all cadets meet, as well as any senior member that is working with cadets, needs training, have meetings or is doing staff work. Once a month we have a separate SM meeting for the entire senior membership. This one is focused on training, recognitions, announcements and status reports that are applicable only or mostly to SM.

[UH60guy]

Interesting information, thank you. It's really interesting to me to hear this stuff, and kind of gets me excited to go out there, challenge what I'm used to, and check out some new units. I'm really curious to see the senior side in action, as ours again is very tailored to supporting the cadets.

Of course this means I will need (and get the opportunity!) to pursue a new specialty track now that I just earned my senior in CP...

[Eclipse]

No reason you can't get to master in CP, regardless of your home unit.

Master is more focused on larger-scale activities like encampments, etc., there may be opportunities
for that outside the unit you land at.

[Storm Chaser]

I spent many years in a cadet squadron. I also spent some time in a senior squadron and Group HQ. I really like working in a true composite squadron. Both sides have something to offer.

When I transferred to my current unit, I worked mostly with the cadet side. Now, I work mostly with the senior side. They've both been great experiences and there's a lot of overlap. We have many joint (for lack of a better word) training and activities where both cadets and senior members can participate. But we also have separate meetings where we can address aspects specific to each program.

Now, as you already know, every squadron is different. Your best bet is to visit several of them to see which one is a better fit. Good luck!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I have found there is sometimes a very thin line separating "cadet" and "composite" squadrons.  I served in a "cadet" squadron that was redesignated "composite" because the seniors were starting to outnumber the cadets!

I don't like having the three types of squadrons.  To me there should just be a squadron that any CAP member (senior or cadet) can serve in.  That would also likely eliminate a good deal of the "flying club" mentality I experienced in a senior squadron.

[Brit_in_CAP]

I have found there is sometimes a very thin line separating "cadet" and "composite" squadrons.  I served in a "cadet" squadron that was redesignated "composite" because the seniors were starting to outnumber the cadets!

I don't like having the three types of squadrons.  To me there should just be a squadron that any CAP member (senior or cadet) can serve in.  That would also likely eliminate a good deal of the "flying club" mentality I experienced in a senior squadron.

I agree; designate a squadron as a squadron and then they offer programs based on the people they can recruit and the resources they have available.   I'd hate for an enthusiastic person - cadet or Senior - to feel unwelcome simply because the unit happened to be a 'cadet only' or 'Senior only' unit.

[Storm Chaser]

I have found there is sometimes a very thin line separating "cadet" and "composite" squadrons.  I served in a "cadet" squadron that was redesignated "composite" because the seniors were starting to outnumber the cadets!

I don't like having the three types of squadrons.  To me there should just be a squadron that any CAP member (senior or cadet) can serve in.  That would also likely eliminate a good deal of the "flying club" mentality I experienced in a senior squadron.

I agree; designate a squadron as a squadron and then they offer programs based on the people they can recruit and the resources they have available.   I'd hate for an enthusiastic person - cadet or Senior - to feel unwelcome simply because the unit happened to be a 'cadet only' or 'Senior only' unit.

While I'm not necessarily crazy about the current squadron designations, I would argue that the opposite would happen if we had no designations at all.

A new senior member who joins CAP to fly and do ES will be very disappointed when he/she realizes that the squadron he/she joined is mostly cadets and that their focus is on drill, color guard, leadership, aerospace education, etc., and no or very little ES training is being offered. What about a cadet who joins a squadron mostly composed of senior members, just to find out that no one there wants to run or support the Cadet Programs?

The current squadron designations, while not perfect, are meant to convey the general focus of the squadron. That's usually clear with cadet and senior squadrons, but sometimes less so with composite squadrons, which sometimes tend to focus on one or the other.

[Eclipse]

I see your point but don't agree.

The current designations mean nothing to anyone coming in the door with no knowledge of CAP, and
this is especially true considering they are largely ignored by the organization.

If a member is "surprised" about the tone and timbre of the unit >after< he joins, it's because he
didn't do his due diligence and neither did that unit's commander.

At this point we can't even come up with a good name for adult members, with the negative connotations
that "senior" has externally, having a "senior squadron" doesn't exactly conjure up Doug Masters and fried chicken.