Types of Squadrons

[NorCal21]

OK, quick note... I ACTUALLY did search for this topic first so I apologize if it was covered before but there's so much that came up under the search that I gave up looking after 15 minutes.


I recently moved to Florida. In the Tampa Bay area there are almost no senior squadrons. One maybe. There are three or four composite squadrons, but those are in name only to be honest. I've visited them and it appears the senior side really is only there as staff for the cadet side. There are plenty of cadet squadrons but I don't have much interest in working with them.

Don't get me wrong folks... I full well see the value of cadets in CAP both FOR CAP and FOR the cadets. CAP has done an amazing job over the years of turning out excellent young adults who went on to serve the country in amazing ways. I just don't have an interest in working with cadet squadrons that's all. That's no different than someone who has no interest in flying, or someone who has no interest in boating in general. Just personal taste. My time is limited because of other volunteer opportunities, masters program work, two jobs, etc.

My questions:

First: What are the requirements to stand up a squadron in each type? How does one go about standing down a squadron or redesignating one so there's a proper desciptor. Its really annoying to drive all over the freaking place to visit squadrons to find out they aren't what they advertise? As in if there's no senior activities how can it be changed to a cadet squadron?

Second: I've never transferred in to FLWG. I found one squadron I like but I can't drive an 1.5 hours each way two to four times a month. What other options are there? Group level or wing level work? Don't know much about stuff on that level and what the time requirements are.


Links to regs are cool with me if you don't feel like posting. I do like CAP and want to stay a member but its looking like I'll have zero activities while I'm here in FL for the next year unless something changes with the area I live or something. I guess I'm just a little disheartened. I'm so used to living in areas where they are a lot of squadrons are really active senior sides.

[Eclipse]

20-3 has the rules regarding charter designations.

[NC Hokie]

This sounds like a perfect opportunity to be the change that you want to see.  My suggestion would be to discuss your concerns with the composite squadron that you like best and offer to stand up a senior program for them.  If they pass, move on to then next squadron on your list.

[RiverAux]

You shouldn't worry about trying to get squadrons redesignated.  Some Wings even made the decision to make every squadron a composite squadron just so that both senior and cadet programs are theoretically available.  Frankly, redesignation is something way above your pay grade. 

However, if you wish to start a senior squadron, go for it.  I've been in one before.  Its just much harder to recruit the members, but once on board I think the training program is much simpler.   

If the town is big enough it probably could support both cadet and senior squadrons though it is going to require some close cooperation between them. 

[mwewing]

When I came back to CAP a couple of years ago, the composite squadron I joined was much like you describe. The senior staff was very limited and worked almost exclusively to keep the cadet program running. This was less of an issue for me since I came back specifically to give back to the cadet program that gave me so much as a teen. Since my return, I have developed a strong appreciation for the senior side of the house, and have focused quite a bit of time outside cadet programs as well. In fact, I almost transferred to a senior squadron when I relocated for work, and train with that unit periodically despite my decision.

One thing I realized with my former composite squadron, is that the lack of any meaningful senior program did not mean there was no interest in one. The limited staff could only reasonably accomplish so much with their available time and resources. They chose to prioritize the cadet program over other activities. If a prospective transfer indicated an interest in developing a stronger senior program, they would have found significant enthusiasm from the other seniors who simply didn't have time to coordinate those efforts themselves.

I would suggest some open discussion with some of the composite squadrons you visited. Explain your interests, and personal goals. You may be surprised to find significant support even in squadrons that don't already have a strong senior program. If you are interested in Group/Wing level work, it is also a great way to build your reputation. Building a senior program from the ground up in an area that hasn't seen one recently, will turn heads in your direction.

You could also look at creating a senior squadron, but I would caution you that building an entire squadron from the ground up requires a lot of work. If you are a graduate student with limited time, as indicated in your post, you should be very careful taking on such an undertaking alone

[Eclipse]

One thing I realized with my former composite squadron, is that the lack of any meaningful senior program did not mean there was no interest in one. The limited staff could only reasonably accomplish so much with their available time and resources. They chose to prioritize the cadet program over other activities. If a prospective transfer indicated an interest in developing a stronger senior program, they would have found significant enthusiasm from the other seniors who simply didn't have time to coordinate those efforts themselves.

More.

People.

[Storm Chaser]

Squadrons go through cycles and that may be the reason these composite squadrons don't have much going on in terms of a senior program right now. You may be what they need to revitalize their programs and, while it's not an easy task, it's simpler than most people may think.

When I joined my current composite squadron there was a senior program established, but other than flying and the occasional SAREX, I didn't seem much in terms of a program per se. Don't get me wrong; the was one. It's just that due to turn over and limited staff, some functions, training and programs were almost nonexistent. What did I do? I looked for holes; voids in the program. Then I offered suggestions and, more importantly, volunteered and offered to help, even in areas that were not part of my duty positions. A year later, we now have a much stronger and diverse staff. We're not just having the one senior meeting a month, but a planning/staff meeting and an ES training meeting. We're doing a SAREX each quarter. In addition to flying, we have ground/UDF teams and mission base staff. And for next year, we're adding FTXs and a flight clinic.

I didn't happen overnight. It took patience, perseverance and hard work. It also took initiative. For example, for a long time we only had a professional development officer in paper (that officer hasn't shown up to a meeting in over a year and a half). I noticed that folks weren't getting promoted due to lack of PD/Level/Rating completion. So I just started helping people get their requirements done; pointing them in the right direction. As I got to know people, I realized that many folks were doing the "wrong" job. I talked to the folks and the commander and got them doing things that they were more suitable and actually wanted to do. The bottom line is, when you see something that's not working the way it should, you should just help get it fix. It doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen. These squadrons need people like you.

[mwewing]

One thing I realized with my former composite squadron, is that the lack of any meaningful senior program did not mean there was no interest in one. The limited staff could only reasonably accomplish so much with their available time and resources. They chose to prioritize the cadet program over other activities. If a prospective transfer indicated an interest in developing a stronger senior program, they would have found significant enthusiasm from the other seniors who simply didn't have time to coordinate those efforts themselves.

More.

People.

AGREE!!!

I have never talked to a member from any unit that didn't wish they had more members. Many hands make light work.

[Storm Chaser]

More people is important, but it's not enough. You need active members.

[spaatzmom]

OK, quick note... I ACTUALLY did search for this topic first so I apologize if it was covered before but there's so much that came up under the search that I gave up looking after 15 minutes.


I recently moved to Florida. In the Tampa Bay area there are almost no senior squadrons. One maybe. There are three or four composite squadrons, but those are in name only to be honest. I've visited them and it appears the senior side really is only there as staff for the cadet side. There are plenty of cadet squadrons but I don't have much interest in working with them.

Don't get me wrong folks... I full well see the value of cadets in CAP both FOR CAP and FOR the cadets. CAP has done an amazing job over the years of turning out excellent young adults who went on to serve the country in amazing ways. I just don't have an interest in working with cadet squadrons that's all. That's no different than someone who has no interest in flying, or someone who has no interest in boating in general. Just personal taste. My time is limited because of other volunteer opportunities, masters program work, two jobs, etc.

My questions:

First: What are the requirements to stand up a squadron in each type? How does one go about standing down a squadron or redesignating one so there's a proper desciptor. Its really annoying to drive all over the freaking place to visit squadrons to find out they aren't what they advertise? As in if there's no senior activities how can it be changed to a cadet squadron?

Second: I've never transferred in to FLWG. I found one squadron I like but I can't drive an 1.5 hours each way two to four times a month. What other options are there? Group level or wing level work? Don't know much about stuff on that level and what the time requirements are.


Links to regs are cool with me if you don't feel like posting. I do like CAP and want to stay a member but its looking like I'll have zero activities while I'm here in FL for the next year unless something changes with the area I live or something. I guess I'm just a little disheartened. I'm so used to living in areas where they are a lot of squadrons are really active senior sides.

First, welcome to the Tampa area.  Currently, there are 20 squadrons plus group headquarters within group 3; 13 of which are cadet, 5 composite, and 2 senior.  If you are on the boarder fringes of this group try the next one over, there might be something to your liking.  Florida has many many squadrons and activities that are supported by all age groups from age 12 through age 90.  You are really short changing yourself by not wanting to work with half of the wings membership.  The cadets within Florida and the nation are generally highly motivated, intelligent, and fun to work with which is likely why there are so many more cadet oriented units.  I have found that the mentorship of members runs bidirectionally.  I have learned a lot from them and hope they have from me. 

http://www.flwg.us/cap-resources/etools/unitroster.aspx      This is a list of units in each group which my help you locate a squadron.  Consider group hq too, though they do support all units in their area.  Florida is surprisingly large when it comes to driving times, though 1.5 hours each way to a unit in a group in that area seems a bit much. 

[Critical AOA]

I believe it would be virtually impossible to start and grow a senior squadron without it having its own aircraft.  Most adults who join CAP fall into two camps, those who want to be around kids and those who want to fly. Those who want to be around kids would be happy to join either a cadet or a composite squadron.  Those who want to fly would prefer either a senior squadron or a composite as long as it has aircraft.  There are exceptions but I would venture to guess these two groups are close to 90% of the adults in CAP.  If I had a choice between a senior squadron with aircraft and a composite squadron with aircraft and all other things were fairly equal, I'd go for the senior squadron. 

[Eclipse]

I believe it would be virtually impossible to start and grow a senior squadron without it having its own aircraft.  Most adults who join CAP fall into two camps, those who want to be around kids and those who want to fly.

You knew someone would disagree, so it might as well be me. 

Many pilots join hoping to fly for CAP, but there's a bunch of members who do plenty and have no interaction with cadets (from a CP perspective).

Most people join CAP to provide some meaningful service to their country and community.

If having a plane was the requirement to keep senior members, we'd have a lot less senior members, since very few units, on the whole, actually have an airplane assigned to them.  Not to mention that the airplane doesn't need to be sitting next to you like a security blanket in order to be an active CAP pilot.

[RiverAux]

I've often considered the possibility of starting a senior squadron focused entirely on ground SAR.  Think there may be a thread or two on that topic around here somewhere.

Unless you did something like that I agree with Vandenbroeck that a senior squadron without an aircraft is going to have an incredibly tough time making a go of it.

[Private Investigator]

Squadrons go through cycles and that may be the reason these composite squadrons don't have much going on in terms of a senior program right now.

Exactly. What I would do is visit the three closest Squadrons and see what their heartbeat is. Then see where you fit best in. Remember per the Prieto Principle, 20% does 80% of the work. 

[Critical AOA]

I've often considered the possibility of starting a senior squadron focused entirely on ground SAR.  Think there may be a thread or two on that topic around here somewhere.

Unless you did something like that I agree with Vandenbroeck that a senior squadron without an aircraft is going to have an incredibly tough time making a go of it.

That part in bold was all you really needed to write.   

[Private Investigator]

I've often considered the possibility of starting a senior squadron focused entirely on ground SAR.  Think there may be a thread or two on that topic around here somewhere.

Unless you did something like that I agree with Vandenbroeck that a senior squadron without an aircraft is going to have an incredibly tough time making a go of it.

Does any Senior Squadron not have a corporate plane? I know we have moved planes away from Senior Squadrons for 90 days because they screwed up but they always gets returned.

[RiverAux]

Couldn't say about the current situation, but I have been in a senior squadron that didn't have a plane assigned to it for a long time.  Made it almost impossible to recruit pilots even though there was another CAP plane only about 30-45 minutes away. 

[NorCal21]

20-3 has the rules regarding charter designations.

Thank you.

[NorCal21]

First, welcome to the Tampa area.  Currently, there are 20 squadrons plus group headquarters within group 3; 13 of which are cadet, 5 composite, and 2 senior.  If you are on the boarder fringes of this group try the next one over, there might be something to your liking.  Florida has many many squadrons and activities that are supported by all age groups from age 12 through age 90.  You are really short changing yourself by not wanting to work with half of the wings membership.  The cadets within Florida and the nation are generally highly motivated, intelligent, and fun to work with which is likely why there are so many more cadet oriented units.  I have found that the mentorship of members runs bidirectionally.  I have learned a lot from them and hope they have from me. 

http://www.flwg.us/cap-resources/etools/unitroster.aspx      This is a list of units in each group which my help you locate a squadron.  Consider group hq too, though they do support all units in their area.  Florida is surprisingly large when it comes to driving times, though 1.5 hours each way to a unit in a group in that area seems a bit much.

Thank you for the reply. Oh I'm well aware of FLWG units. I grew up here and was a member of a cadet squadron in Tampa while growing up. I understand that I'm limiting my options by not wanting to work with cadets, but I don't believe I'm "shortchanging" myself.

I view this the same as I view my relationship with Volkswagen. As I'm a member of CAP, I also am a driver of VW. I want to work with a senior unit for my own personal interest and more operational opportunities just the same as I chose to drive a Passat because of style, size and capabilities. I recognize the value of cadets in CAP and believe they are vital to the mission of CAP just like I think that an Eos or Golf are amazing VW's but I don't have any personal interest in them. That's not to say I never want to see a cadet or interact, I just don't want it to be my primary involvement.

Fortunately I've got messages from the Tampa Senior Squadron which I need to reply to so I will get with them after this thread.

[spaatzmom]

First, welcome to the Tampa area.  Currently, there are 20 squadrons plus group headquarters within group 3; 13 of which are cadet, 5 composite, and 2 senior.  If you are on the boarder fringes of this group try the next one over, there might be something to your liking.  Florida has many many squadrons and activities that are supported by all age groups from age 12 through age 90.  You are really short changing yourself by not wanting to work with half of the wings membership.  The cadets within Florida and the nation are generally highly motivated, intelligent, and fun to work with which is likely why there are so many more cadet oriented units.  I have found that the mentorship of members runs bidirectionally.  I have learned a lot from them and hope they have from me. 

http://www.flwg.us/cap-resources/etools/unitroster.aspx      This is a list of units in each group which my help you locate a squadron.  Consider group hq too, though they do support all units in their area.  Florida is surprisingly large when it comes to driving times, though 1.5 hours each way to a unit in a group in that area seems a bit much.

Thank you for the reply. Oh I'm well aware of FLWG units. I grew up here and was a member of a cadet squadron in Tampa while growing up. I understand that I'm limiting my options by not wanting to work with cadets, but I don't believe I'm "shortchanging" myself.

I view this the same as I view my relationship with Volkswagen. As I'm a member of CAP, I also am a driver of VW. I want to work with a senior unit for my own personal interest and more operational opportunities just the same as I chose to drive a Passat because of style, size and capabilities. I recognize the value of cadets in CAP and believe they are vital to the mission of CAP just like I think that an Eos or Golf are amazing VW's but I don't have any personal interest in them. That's not to say I never want to see a cadet or interact, I just don't want it to be my primary involvement.

Fortunately I've got messages from the Tampa Senior Squadron which I need to reply to so I will get with them after this thread.

Good luck with your intentions in a wing that is very pro cadet.