Why does my ROA card have an expiration date of " Indefinite"?

[pilotdiaz]

Due to a bout with cancer, I had to take a break in my CAP membership of over two years.  I'm A-OK now!  When I renewed my membership, I was told by the squadron that I had to start my membership activities from the the very beginning once again.  I said, "I OK..., I knew that was coming."

However, Wing or NHQ gave me credit for my SLS, ECI 13 and tech Adm Officer; regarding everything else, I had to make a new start with Level I and II.  I was a Capt, Adm Officer, Scanner, Observer and CD qualified before my break.  I'm now back to the rank of SM.  I have no problem with that either.  I have now finished Level I and II.  I still have to finish my Scanner tasks and ride out two missions as a Scanner in the aircraft to once again be qualified as a MS.

I've been looking over my old paper work, and on the 2ND horizontal space of my ROA card, there is the letter "A" (Advanced ROA ?) in the center of what looks like a circular blue seal.  On the right-end of the 3rd space, where the expiration date should be, there is the term "Indefinite."

Does this mean that it is an Advanced ROA card with an indefinite expiration date, and if so, is there anyone that can tell me if I can get credit for this card and use it during my 2ND membership period.  I do know that things in the communications field changed quite a bit during the break in my membership.  Perhaps, is's best that I retake the BCUT and ACUT once again.  Does anyone want to chime in on this topic?

Thanks,

Ernie

[Eclipse]

It depends on your wing - mine is "membership +2 years" to allow for people who come back.

Best to check with your unit or Wing's DC.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Doesn't SM grade transfer over as well, even after a long break? Especially considering grade has little to do with day to day membership.

[SarDragon]

Doesn't SM grade transfer over as well, even after a long break? Especially considering grade has little to do with day to day membership.

It can, at the commander's discretion. Not guaranteed.

[CadetProgramGuy]

You have the A-Cut, show it to the commander, you may get credit for it.  Unless your commander doesn't like you, you should be reinstated to Capt as well.

Cancer is a very good reason to be gone, glad to hear you are better!!

[Camas]

Doesn't SM grade transfer over as well, even after a long break?

It can, at the commander's discretion. Not guaranteed.

We're off topic but fill out a CAPF2 and submit it to your personnel officer for approval by your commander. The comment by Sardragon is correct; it's up to your commander. Reference CAPR35-5 Para 3-8.

[SarDragon]

To go along with that, make sure that you have paper substantiation for anything that no longer shows up online. Sometime that stuff will fall out, but it's hard to predict.

[JoeTomasone]

ROA Cards are under the purview of the Wing/DC, not your Commander (unless, of course, your Commander is the Wing Commander!).

Many Wings do not issue dates on them to avoid having to re-issue cards that technically do NOT expire as the training is not required to be taken again.   In FL Wing, "With Membership" is put for the expiration date, which basically ties it to the membership expiration date.   I wouldn't think that any DC would have an issue with honoring it after a break in membership, but that is the person you want to talk to.

 

[a2capt]

Would it not be the immediate commander, as they have to be the first one to sign the 2A, or their designee. Then it follows the chain?

[Eclipse]

Would it not be the immediate commander, as they have to be the first one to sign the 2A, or their designee. Then it follows the chain?

2A's are not used for ROA cards - you take the class, Wing issues you a card.

[a2capt]

Ah, but .. see, CAWG uses a 2A for practically everything, including ROA cards, as the member brings that signed 2A from their CC, to the radio class. I have been to other units (wings) that do it similarly. So when all I've been exposed to, my answer is just as valid as yours. ;-)


I supposed we should all just go back on "See your Unit CC" as thats the first step. ;-)

[Eclipse]

Ah, but .. see, CAWG uses a 2A for practically everything, including ROA cards, as the member brings that signed 2A from their CC, to the radio class. I have been to other units (wings) that do it similarly. So when all I've been exposed to, my answer is just as valid as yours. ;-)

OK - fair enough...

But seriously?  Its not an award, and its not authorized at the unit level.  The card is the authorization - this would be like doing a 2a for a First Aid card or CAP DL.

You guys must have a big pile of unnecessary "other" 2a's in your files.

[vento]

I guess it varies from group to group within CAWG. At Group 7, we are only required to have form 17 (senior) or form 150 (cadet) in order to attend the training class. After successfully passing the test, one is allowed to print the ROA out of the WMU or request a copy thru the mail with the DC. No form 2A required.

[JoeTomasone]

I guess it varies from group to group within CAWG. At Group 7, we are only required to have form 17 (senior) or form 150 (cadet) in order to attend the training class.

OPSEC too, hopefully.   

[vento]

I guess it varies from group to group within CAWG. At Group 7, we are only required to have form 17 (senior) or form 150 (cadet) in order to attend the training class.

OPSEC too, hopefully.

Yes Sir, OPSEC too.

[SarDragon]

Would it not be the immediate commander, as they have to be the first one to sign the 2A, or their designee. Then it follows the chain?

2A's are not used for ROA cards - you take the class, Wing issues you a card.

How does wing know that you have completed the class?

As a2capt noted, CAWG uses the 2a, and a specific administrative procedure, which works very well, to get the card issued. This facilitates members from outside units/groups getting their ROA cards.

I've been doing ROA classes for about 8 yrs now, and we have a good system. It seems to have passed all the inspections it's been subjected to. It may not match your idea on how it ought to be done, but it works for us.

[SarDragon]

I guess it varies from group to group within CAWG. At Group 7, we are only required to have form 17 (senior) or form 150 (cadet) in order to attend the training class. After successfully passing the test, one is allowed to print the ROA out of the WMU or request a copy thru the mail with the DC. No form 2A required.

You may not see the 2a, but it's filled out and sent in. The F17/F150 and the 2a go to wing.

[Eclipse]

Would it not be the immediate commander, as they have to be the first one to sign the 2A, or their designee. Then it follows the chain?

2A's are not used for ROA cards - you take the class, Wing issues you a card.

How does wing know that you have completed the class?

The results of the class are sent to Wing DC who's staff then issues the cards and tracks them in the WMU.  Since all instructors are approved by wing and all classes coordinated by wing, its not really rocket science.

I still don't even understand where your 2a's are going.  The card has already been issued by the Wing DC, right?  So the unit CC is "approving" a card already issued?  What if they don't?  The card is still issued.

[SarDragon]

Would it not be the immediate commander, as they have to be the first one to sign the 2A, or their designee. Then it follows the chain?

2A's are not used for ROA cards - you take the class, Wing issues you a card.

How does wing know that you have completed the class?

The results of the class are sent to Wing DC who's staff then issues the cards and tracks them in the WMU.  Since all instructors are approved by wing and all classes coordinated by wing, its not really rocket science.

I still don't even understand where your 2a's are going.  The card has already been issued by the Wing DC, right?  So the unit CC is "approving" a card already issued?  What if they don't?  The card is still issued.

The classes are held at the group level. The ROAs are issued by wing. The 2a is the notification mechanism. Our license guy gets the 2a, puts the info into WMU, and sends an email to all concerned that the cards have been approved.

It works. It ain't broke. It's not violating any regs. What's the beef? Your way isn't the only way.

[Eclipse]

It works. It ain't broke. It's not violating any regs. What's the beef? Your way isn't the only way.

No beef - just trying to figure out why a Form 11 signed by the instructor doesn't suffice.

[SarDragon]

It works. It ain't broke. It's not violating any regs. What's the beef? Your way isn't the only way.

No beef - just trying to figure out why a Form 11 signed by the instructor doesn't suffice.

Objectively, the F11 is no more suitable than the F2a.

Its title: SENIOR MEMBER PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM DIRECTOR'S REPORT

Radio Operator training doesn't fall within the purview of CAPR 50-17. Will it work? Sure. I'm not sure anyone considered it when the process was overhauled some years ago. Some folks in the loop might not be as practical as you and me. I'll consider  mentioning it to our admin folks as a simpler method, but don't expect a good reception.

As for the 2a, we use the Remarks section to document course completion, current membership, and test score.

[Capt Rivera]

Hey SarDragon,

For what it's worth we use the CAP F11 also to document the training and pass that to wing. For training we select the "Other" option and note what the training was...

Good luck.

[shorning]

Why both "making" a form work?  Why not just an official memorandum signed by the person conducting the training, or the commander of the hosting unit?    I just don't see a need to use a form when there isn't one.  Plus you could have a template letter that just needs to be updated with new info each time.

YMMV...(and I don't really care how wings do it if it works for them)...

[Capt Rivera]

Why not just an official memorandum signed by the person conducting the training, or the commander of the hosting unit?    I just don't see a need to use a form when there isn't one.  Plus you could have a template letter that just needs to be updated with new info each time.

YMMV...(and I don't really care how wings do it if it works for them)...

We used to do that... it worked as well...

A2Capt, how long was the break. I know over two years but was it 2.5 year, 10 years etc? 

The thing your wing might keep in mind is that yes things change and without recurrent training no one will be up to date. Someone keeping his MRO up to date will continue to learn as things change, someone who lets it expire as I just did will need an update. With the recent changes, I did not already know "how" to do what I saw someone doing as I worked on Mission Staff Assistant. However, I bet I figured it out. The reality is, even if MRO had not expired, I would get training in what is current and this would not require me to go threw B-CUT again.

Regarding B-CUT: If your wing has actually updated B-Cut since your laps of membership, I would recommend doing it again or at least reviewing the slides. If your wing is using one of the extremely old B-CUT slides, then depending on how long you have been away and how involved you were with radios, your memory will probably serve you well enough, just take MRO training seriously and maybe do it before doing MO.

Those are my thoughts FWIW. Welcome back and I'm glad your doing well enough to be back.

[a2capt]

What break? I have not stopped since first signing up.

I think you meant the OP..

[SarDragon]

Let's not mix apples and oranges here.

BCUT and ACUT are courses leading to a Radio Operator Authorization (CAPF 76, ROA). MRO is an ES rating requiring completion of the BCUT. They are distinct, but related, entities. Your understanding of that seems unclear.

Regarding course updates, CAWG manages a review and update about every three years, and new pubs (new 100-1, 100-3, etc) drive more frequent changes.