New Summer Flight Uniform

[Eclipse]

I wouldn't want people running out to buy the latest and greatest just because it's out there. It's a simple personal concern for others, things are getting pricey these days. If people have something that will do the job they need, no reason to go buy something new fancy.

Based on the above, you don't want to even guess what I've spent for nametapes alone this year. Unbeknown to me, I was very foolish, because I already had some that were perfectly fine.

The above is great for you, but if you are telling others they are "foolish" for buying a uniform item that is approved and appropriate, I would suggest you're trolling for things to be worried about which don't deserve the mental energy.

[Hawk200]

I wouldn't want people running out to buy the latest and greatest just because it's out there. It's a simple personal concern for others, things are getting pricey these days. If people have something that will do the job they need, no reason to go buy something new fancy.

Based on the above, you don't want to even guess what I've spent for nametapes alone this year. Unbeknown to me, I was very foolish, because I already had some that were perfectly fine.

The above is great for you, but if you are telling others they are "foolish" for buying a uniform item that is approved and appropriate, I would suggest you're trolling for things to be worried about which don't deserve the mental energy.

I don't know where you got the statement concerning someone feeling foolish about buying nametapes, I didn't post anything like that in this thread.

Second, I don't tell anyone that they are foolish for buying anything. I just said that I don't see the point of buying another equivalent uniform when they already have one that is appreopriate, and I will tell someone that if they ask me about it.

I think you've gotten someone else confused with me as far as this thread goes, or else you have a misimpression of what I've said.

[Eclipse]

Well then let's just leave it on the table and move on...

[mikeylikey]

 :clap:

[Hawk200]

Well then let's just leave it on the table and move on...

Don't know what there is to leave, but OK.

I'm curious as to whether or not this new summer flight uniform was going to be something entirely new, or if it will use something we already have.

Does anyone know, or is that entry in the agenda unclear as to what the new uniform will actually be?

Maybe a simpler way to ask: What's this thing gonna look like?

[mikeylikey]

Maybe a simpler way to ask: What's this thing gonna look like?

CRAP........as usual! 

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Cadets who see flight suits on their leaders feel attachment to a military aviation organization. Seniors who see it feel motivation. Outsiders who see it perceive us as an organized, professional, military organization...

...rather than a bunch of old and/or overweight people with silver oak leaves (depending on the uniform they wear) sucking down coffee for two or three hours a week. That's an environment tailor-made for golf shirts and shorts, and Velcro shoes.

I am one of your "old and overweigh person with silver oak leaves" and I do suck down coffee for two or three hours a week day.   You seem to equate professionalism with flight suits and not with performance, bearing, attitude, and conduct.    I was in a military aviation organization and it wasn't CAP.  We only wore our flight suits when we were flying or playing crazy games in the casual bar.   The standards still exist, but enforcement is so lax as to be nonexistent. 

Nope. Please re-read what I said. We have an uphill PR battle, inside and outside the organization, and the myriad of uniforms doesn't help, never mind the lax enforcement (how can you enforce something that changes every time you turn around, or keep up with so many different uniforms?).

I believe the flying club perception comes from the CAP civilian "uniforms," if it comes from clothing. The flight suit is a military uniform, and should be treated as such. It's a symbol of professionalism, and I see no problem with a wear policy that provides a little more latitude -- as well as a little more common sense and command responsibility.

Shorts and golf shirts as a "uniform" is about as silly as soccer shorts and a CAP T-shirt would be. We've gone past military (or pseudomilitary) professionalism and safety, and delved into whatever makes someone feel better. It's time to rein in all these CAP combinations for the sanity (and wallets) of the membership and the good of the organization.

As for the pilots who only show up when they absolutely have to? As I said before, that flight suit isn't the reason. It's that you need to look at what your unit is doing on a meeting night -- if it's not helpful to a pilot, why should he have to be there? If it's not beneficial for cadets, why should they attend? Keep your members active and engaged, and you won't have these concerns.

[jimmydeanno]

Not to add onto the "flying club" bit...

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4519.msg87903#msg87903

1946, CAP was chartering flying clubs as part of their normal squadrons, advocated and listed as a goal by RM personnel.

1948 we became the USAF Aux. 

Flying club longer than Air Force Aux.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

(Laughing at jimmydeanno) Dude, don't encourage it!

[Mustang]

The worse examples of the "flying club" are the ones who always wear their flight suits, reguardless of the function,  and you normally only see them if attendance is required in order for them to fly.  Most around here are not even Mission Pilots, just CAP Pilots with a current Fm 5 who like the reduced rates for flying corporate aircraft.   But they sure look good.....  That is who your "flying club" people are, not the ones that need to "gain some military bearing".

What do you think USAF aircrew wear on days when they're not flying?  BDUs?  Blues? 

[Hawk200]

The worse examples of the "flying club" are the ones who always wear their flight suits, reguardless of the function,  and you normally only see them if attendance is required in order for them to fly.  Most around here are not even Mission Pilots, just CAP Pilots with a current Fm 5 who like the reduced rates for flying corporate aircraft.   But they sure look good.....  That is who your "flying club" people are, not the ones that need to "gain some military bearing".

What do you think USAF aircrew wear on days when they're not flying?  BDUs?  Blues? 

All the ones I've seen wore them. The few times they did wear anything else, I didn't even recognize them.

I've known members of flying senior units that only possessed flightsuits. Since their mission is primarily flight, it makes sense. A few of the personnel that actually attend wing functions & commander's calls may obtain blues or equivalent. But for the most part, that's all they wear. I don't see any practical reason why they should have to obtain any kind of BDU's.

[Pumbaa]

Why should I wear BDU's (Let alone purchase them) if I do not do ground activities?  All I do is fly.

Look it's been hot in NY, temps when taxi'n the plane exceed 100 degrees. We try to keep the windows open for takeoff and landing...  Our other option is the polo-shirt and grey slacks.  I for one do not have a problem with that, I am quite comfortable that way too.

But I can imagine some schmo that wear white knee socks with his cute tennis sneakers.

I am not sure on this one....  Can't see how shorts would make it that more comfortable in flight.  Perhaps my lack of being down south is part of this.

[LittleIronPilot]

You guys do what you want.  That just about seals the deal for me not staying in CAP when I'm done with my AF training.  If all goes well, I'll be sweating it out in a flight suit in quite a few different environments and I'll be [darn]ed proud to do it.

Hydrate, exercise, and eat well and you shouldn't have a problem.  Aside from the obvious, there are a lot of cops in this forum who will attest to standing on 100+ degree asphalt in black uniforms for long periods of time with vests, 20 lbs. worth of gear, etc., and we know how to deal with it.  There are thousands of military people in a freakin desert that hump it with even more than that every single day.

I'm losing interest.

Amen brother! As someone who has worn that uniform on the hot asphalt directing traffic...it does get hot and sweaty.

[darn] people....what is it with so many NOT wanting to be in a uniform, something that does not make you look like you are on a golf course? It seems as if some of you are so desirous of just doing away with anything that even smacks of a miltiary-style uniform.

[mikeylikey]

[darn] people....what is it with so many NOT wanting to be in a uniform, something that does not make you look like you are on a golf course? It seems as if some of you are so desirous of just doing away with anything that even smacks of a military-style uniform.

I have noticed that trend as well.  The whole Corporate-AUX battle of uniforms and personal desires will most likely get more intense in the next few years!

[DG]

If things go well at the National Board, we may be authorized to wear a New Summer Flight Uniform.

Blue golf shirt and khaki shorts.  White socks and white tennis shoes.

There seems to be some confusion and a concern about the cost of an additional uniform.

I don't understand, because it will be the same golf shirt that so many of us already have.

And khaki shorts that many of us already have in our wardrobe anyway.

When some of the comments refer to "polo" shirt, do they mean golf shirt?

What follows is direct quote excerpted from CAPR 39-1

NOTES: There are three knit shirts authorized for wear for men and women. They are:
1. Dark blue knit shirt with embroidered CAP seal on the right breast and embroidered name and
aeronautical rating or specialty badge on the left breast.
2. Dark blue knit shirt with embroidered seal on the right breast, without the name or rating on left
breast.
3. Dark blue knit shirt with the CAP seal screen-printed in white lettering on left breast.
4. CAP knit shirts are worn with gray trousers or slacks (see Table 4-4).
Figure 4-3. Men's and Women's Knit (Golf) Shirts

Table 4-4. Men's and Women's Golf Shirt/Summer Uniform
Wear Instructions/Materials
1 Slacks/Trousers Commercial slacks/trousers in medium gray color, full cut, straight hanging,
with or without pleats, with or without cuffs. Cotton/twill weave trousers are
authorized (no jeans).
2 Shirt There are three golf shirts approved for wear. A dark blue knit shirt with
embroidered CAP seal on the right breast and embroidered name and
aeronautical rating or specialty badge on the left breast; a dark blue knit shirt
with embroidered seal on the right breast, without the name or rating on left
breast; and a dark blue knit shirt with the CAP seal screen printed in white
lettering on left breast. Shirt must be worn tucked in by men unless heat
conditions on the flight line require additional air circulation. Women may
wear the shirt out of slacks but shirt length must not fall below mid-hips.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

We are the Air Force's auxiliary. It is the one thing that separates us from any other organization.

But there's people out there who want to dilute that, whether through uniforms or other means.

There will come a time, as the slippery slope progresses, that we might not be much more than a Congressionally chartered version of whatever that "ranger corps" thing is.

Lose the uniforms, lose your identity. People identify with symbols, and that's why the symbols are as important to some people as they are.

If you don't want to be in a semi-military organization, underwritten by and chartered through the U.S. Air Force, CAP is not for you. The uniform is part of CAP's heritage and history; it is a working identifier of a battle-honed organization that still stands proud and ready. We should be proud of who we are, and we should not walk away from our heritage for the sake of someone's convenience.

Keep the Air Force uniforms. Rein in the CAP corporate uniforms, so they're simplified and -- dare I say it? -- uniform. There are far too many "combinations" to be consistent. When I go to some squadron meetings, I really don't know if I'm in CAP or at a fashion show for some Army-Navy store. Or who to call "sir" and who not to. Or....

Our Air Force brethren wear the flight suit in warm temperatures, and they don't complain. Why should we chafe at the thought of wearing our nation's uniform?

[Major Carrales]

New Summer Flight Uniform..yikes!!! There goes the neighborhood!!! 

A while back, when we were discussing golf shirts and the ratty conditions of trousers (even denim jeans) being worn with them.  I pointed out that it would not be long before shorts would be authorized.

Now, shorts can be done.  Mandate the wear of a short sleeve aviator shirt with nametag and CAP epaulets and CAP squadron baseball cap.  That actually looks like a uniform.  (there is in my mind no difference between wearing a button up shirt and a pull over).

I suppose flip-flops are next!!!

[lordmonar]

Why should we chafe at the thought of wearing our nation's uniform?

All the extra BS that goes with it.  People volunteer to join CAP to help our Nation, State and City....sure they want to look professional....but along comes the Uniform Nazis with their rulers and arguments about which patch goes where.  Add to that the greif that people get if they suggest even a simple change.

I have done 22 years in the military, getting told every day what I will wear, how I should groom my hair.  Some people don't like that.  They want to help the USAF and our local community....but they want to be comfortable doing it.

[Pumbaa]

Sandles or Flip Flips with white socks... Yummy....   :clap:

[Major Carrales]

I have done 22 years in the military, getting told every day what I will wear, how I should groom my hair.  Some people don't like that.  They want to help the USAF and our local community....but they want to be comfortable doing it.

Can't say I fully agree with that.  When one joins an organization, they have to conform to the standards.  Standards have to shoe a degree of professionalism.  I can't fathom a world where CAP Officers, aviators at that, are wearing a combination that looks less professional that UPS, MAIL CARRIERS and EMS.  I cite these not to "down play" the improtance of these people (I can see where someone migth fain an insulting imagined tone from that...that is furtherst thing from my mind), but to insure that CAP aviators have a professional look.  Your not flying for yourself up there, your flying for CAP.  Filthy golf shirt and cruddy shorts (which you know will happen within six month of this uniform...you know, from wadding it up in the trunk of a car or some other reasons someone will give why they just "couldn't look professional")

Many of you know my agendistic rant on "corporate" shirts/shorts and the basic "dressing down/causual friday is every day" issue, however, I will rise above my agendism and offer...

...a compromise!!!  Again, white aviator shirt (short sleeve) with rank shoulder marks/nametag, uniform shorts and reasonable footwear looks both professional and should be comfortable.  That is what UPS, MAIL CARRIERS and EMS tend to wear...why can't we just have that?