The pilots of a Northwest Airlines jet failed to make radio contact with ground controllers for more than an hour and overflew their Minneapolis destination by 150 miles before discovering the mistake and turning around.

Flight 188, an Airbus A320, was flying from San Diego to Minneapolis with 144 passengers and five crew. The pilots dropped out of radio contact with controllers just before 7 p.m. CDT, when they were at 37,000 feet.

The jet flew over the airport just before 8 p.m. and overshot it before communications were re-established at 8:14 p.m, the NTSB said.

The FAA notified the military, which put Air National Guard fighter jets on alert at two locations. As many as four planes could have been scrambled, but none ever took to the air.

"After FAA re-established communications, we pulled off," said Michael Kucharek, a North American Aerospace Defense Command spokesman.

As of Thursday afternoon, NTSB investigators had not yet examined the cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder, which were being sent to the NTSB lab in Washington for analysis. He said the agency was also seeking to interview the pilots, but had not scheduled a meeting.

Anthony Black, a spokesman for Delta, which acquired Northwest last year, said the two pilots have been suspended from flying while the airline conducts an internal investigation. He refused to name them or give further details on their background or what happened in the air.

FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown said air traffic controllers in Denver had been in contact with the pilots as they flew over the Rockies. But as the plane got closer to Minneapolis, she said, "the Denver center tried to contact the flight but couldn't get anyone."

Denver controllers notified their counterparts in Minneapolis, who also tried to reach the crew without success, Brown said.

"Radar controllers were the whole time trying to make audio contact with that plane," said Tony Molinaro, an FAA spokesman in Chicago.

After the plane landed in Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport, two airport police officers boarded the plane at the gate, which authorities said is standard procedure after a crew loses communication with air traffic controllers.

....the pilots stated they were so engrossed in a conversation about "airline policies"  that they didn't realize they overshot their destination.

If they had said a CAPTALK uniform thread, I know I'd believe 'em.

... or talking about the Delta flight that landed on the taxiway in Atlanta.

I think you can refer to them as former Northwest Pilots. The FAA already has the CVR.

Stupid pilot tricks, its' not the equipment but is the operators (usually) that's at fault. Is it possible the crew turned down the radio volume to carry on the conversation? I have done it and so have many others made that error. Also done the tuning error and failed to push the "flip-flop" button etc. Some errors are annoying and others , like this one are troubling. If the crew fell asleep they probably are done for at Northwest/Delta. Same goes for the 767 bunch that landed on the taxiway.

All of us should strive to do better.

...or they were discussing Captain Sulley

Another forum wondered about flight attendant calls about the flight's status which would have awakened a sleeping crew. Typically there are a few concerning everything immaniable, cabin temperature, toilets, arrival time etc. I guess this crew didn't have any. The Cockpit Voice and Flight Parameter Recorders will tell all.  I hope for the crews future there is a good explanation

Quote from: sparks on October 23, 2009, 01:33:48 AM
Another forum wondered about flight attendant calls about the flight's status which would have awakened a sleeping crew. Typically there are a few concerning everything immaniable, cabin temperature, toilets, arrival time etc. I guess this crew didn't have any. The Cockpit Voice and Flight Parameter Recorders will tell all.  I hope for the crews future there is a good explanation

The Flight Data recorder will probably show straight and level flight, i.e. AFCS on heading and altitude hold.
If they had been in VNAV and LNAV the plane would have started down all by itself. The bloody thing would have flown the entire STAR if they had put it in the FMC.

And there had better be some lively, LOAD conversation on the CVR or they're toast.

LOAD, Phil? Dreaming of your beloved trash haulers?

How about loud? Or to yell like you did - LOUD! 

Quote from: sparks on October 23, 2009, 01:33:48 AM
Another forum wondered about flight attendant calls about the flight's status which would have awakened a sleeping crew. Typically there are a few concerning everything immaniable, cabin temperature, toilets, arrival time etc. I guess this crew didn't have any. The Cockpit Voice and Flight Parameter Recorders will tell all.  I hope for the crews future there is a good explanation

Our flight attendants are supposed to check on us once per hour for safety reasons.  I think I've gone at least 8 hours without hearing from them.  You have to beg these days for a drink.  You'd think out of 12 of them, one could see if we are alive.

If they pushed the CVR erase button this could take awhile.

There's an erase button?

How long is the CVR loop?

I believe that it is 30 minutes.  THRASH can probably tell us authoritatively.

Quote from: sparks on October 23, 2009, 01:44:21 PM
If they pushed the CVR erase button this could take awhile.

if they did then they are making their situation worst.

On the Airbus A318/19/20/21. The following conditions must be met to  erase:
The aircraft is on the ground, and the parking brake is on

Pressing the CVR ERASE push button for 2 seconds will then erase the tape.

The Airbus CVR records the previous 2 hours.

Of course doing so would also erase your job and maybe also your licence!

Supposedly the data is still retrieveable because the button activates a "soft" erase.

Fox news reported the A320 had an older style recorder tha only records the previous 20 minutes, that's would be when the crew was alert descending to land. The information may not be of any use, we'll see.

My curiosity is .. if you screw up, and you know it, you make sure you outlast the loop so that everything they pick up is normal.

Then you can make up whatever story you want. IE, we were in a heated discussion . .. not sleeping.

I'd be very surprised if they get off with just remedial training. Even the "we were in a heated discussion" isn't a good thing.

Eastern Airlines flight 401 comes to mind. A heated discussion enough to make them forget about the flight, the FAF, Center, approach, etc .. is about the same as bumping a lever, button, whatever and sending the aircraft into a slight descent right into the ground.

If the tapes are inconclusive, management still will ask the crew why they didn't notice where they were. Situational awareness is even more important when flying at high altitude going 7 miles a minute. Even if they turned down the radio volume or took off their headsets/ear pieces, situational awareness is a gotcha. The only "out" would be if the navigation system was displaying erroneous information or the pressurization system malfunctioned putting everyone asleep.
We'll have to wait for the FAA/NTSB explanation.