Cadet PT Uniforms

[FloridaCaptain]

The national cadet council is talking about creating a cadet PT uniform.  They think the cadets look bad when doing PT.  Not sure that I'll have anyone agreeing with me here, but they already have 2 uniforms that for smaller squadrons can be difficult to obtain, especially BDUs.  Creating a new uniform would probably just create new revenue stream for vanguard. It should be up to the squadron commander as to what the cadets wear when doing PT, and there are already suggestions out there.  The cadet council needs something new to focus its attention on.   

[Eclipse]

The CAC has no power to "create" anything.  They can, if so inclined, or asked to advise, provide input
as to whether there needs to be a cadet PT uniform, however barring a change to the regulations,
unless NHQ funds the purchase of said uniform, they can't require it be worn.

And while I'm all for uniformity, and advise and direct cadets to wear common-sense, subdued colors
for PT, I don't think we need a standard PT uniform, if for no other reason then the expense, since
it would almost certainly have to be replaced annually, and for some cadets more often.

A general specification of say "dark colored shorts and gray t-shirt" would be OK, I guess, but nothing
with a logo or that has a single source.

It's interesting that at the same time there is discussion of decoupling PT from most promotions, thus
de-emphasizing it in general, the CAC wants a standard PT uniform.

Left-hand / right-hand.

[MSG Mac]

Let's add another $15-$20 to the costs of being a member.

[JC004]

I saw the NCAC proposal.  They were considering it as suggested guidance, rather than a requirement. 

We used to have a squadron-required PT uniform, but that was because I was able to get the pants surplus and provide the whole thing without additional cost.

The NCAC proposed proposal (heh) wouldn't be mandatory.  I think the idea was mostly to make a more uniform optional combo.

[Brit_in_CAP]

The CAC has no power to "create" anything.  They can, if so inclined, or asked to advise, provide input
as to whether there needs to be a cadet PT uniform, however barring a change to the regulations,
unless NHQ funds the purchase of said uniform, they can't require it be worn.

And while I'm all for uniformity, and advise and direct cadets to wear common-sense, subdued colors
for PT, I don't think we need a standard PT uniform, if for no other reason then the expense, since
it would almost certainly have to be replaced annually, and for some cadets more often.

A general specification of say "dark colored shorts and gray t-shirt" would be OK, I guess, but nothing
with a logo or that has a single source.

It's interesting that at the same time there is discussion of decoupling PT from most promotions, thus
de-emphasizing it in general, the CAC wants a standard PT uniform.

Left-hand / right-hand.

+1 and then some.

Enough cost for cadets as it is.  We go with the 'general specification' that Eclipse mentions, especially the no logo and not single source.

[arajca]

Also, this was discussed a few times I'm aware of at the NB/NEC/CSAG/etc. level and was rejected each time.

[LSThiker]

This same subject has been talked about for years previous.  It was even discussed when I was a NCAC member.  The proposal is not anything new.  When we suggested a CPFT uniform, it was a simple recommendation of "blue shorts" and a "white, gray, or black (I think these colors) T-shirt" from any source.  Even that was rejected.  So I would not get too worked up about this. 

[Panzerbjorn]

In my squadron, when cadets join, their yearly squadron dues include a squadron t-shirt with the squadron emblem on the left breast.  For PT, the cadets are required to either wear the squadron t-shirt (preferred), a plain black t-shirt, or the orange Ranger t-shirt if they've earned it.  The Ranger typically do an extra 1/2 mile esprit de corps run after their mile test.  The squadron requirement of wearing the black t-shirts solves the uniformity issue for the most part.

We also require that the cadets wear conservative black athletic shorts.  No purples or beach volleyball shorts. Shoes are completely at the cadets' discretion.

As a result of this, we don't have the problems of uniformity.

[Flying Pig]

Here is why CAC is ultimately guided by adults with common sense.  This is something left regulated by the Squadron. if you attend an activity at Group or Wing, they most of the time, always offer an activity t-shirt that is paid for in the fee.  Mandate "black shorts and activity t-shirt for such and such course".   All that will happen with this, is Vanguard will end up with another item that 20,000 parents will need to buy for $19.95.

[AirAux]

Unless your PT last for 2 - 2 1/2 hours, do you want everyone running around in shorts and t-shirts for the rest of the evening?  I guess we could have them change into uniforms after PT, but is that opening a door for problems??   

[Eclipse]

What else do you do? 

You can't have them run or PT test in bluess, and running in boots should be reserved for times when gunshots are heard.

Of course they change, or "PT night" is nothing else.

[GroundHawg]

I think is funny you guys think vanguard will only charge $20! Im guessing $20 each piece for shorts and shirts, and another $30+ each for a jacket and pants. About an additional $100 each member for the vanguard monopoly would be my guess.

[Storm Chaser]

For PT, the cadets are required to either wear the squadron t-shirt (preferred), a plain black t-shirt, or the orange Ranger t-shirt if they've earned it.

I don't mean to start another HMRS discussion (I personally have no issues with the program), but CAPM 39-1 does not authorize an orange t-shirt for HMRS graduates. Does your squadron let NBB, NESA, COS, etc. graduates wear their respective activity t-shirts? If the answer is no, then neither should it allow the HMRS t-shirts.

The Ranger typically do an extra 1/2 mile esprit de corps run after their mile test.

What's the purpose for this? HMRS graduates are not a separate group within the squadron nor have a separate PT standard within CAP Cadet Programs. Units should be developing esprit de corps with all unit members and not a selected group.

[Storm Chaser]

I think PT uniforms should be designated by the unit commanders or activity directors; not by NHQ. In most instances, a unit or activity t-shirt with black shorts can provide the desired uniformity. Cadets already own black t-shirts, so that's another acceptable option. Either way, we don't need a national standard thats going to add cost and complexity to the uniform.

[Eclipse]

Good point - it should be black t-shirts (CAP or otherwise), and nothing else.

And again, absent a change to 39-1, no echelon can require a cadet to buy any uniform item except for Class-B blues, regardless
of squadron dues, SOPs, or otherwise.

Is it done all the time?  Yep.   Doesn't change what the reg actually says.

I never had a cadet refuse to wear BDUs for encampment - no idea what I would have done if it happened.
Call the Wing King, I guess and let him deal with it.

[Alaric]

I think is funny you guys think vanguard will only charge $20! Im guessing $20 each piece for shorts and shirts, and another $30+ each for a jacket and pants. About an additional $100 each member for the vanguard monopoly would be my guess.

<sarcasm> But remember that's a good thing because we get a kickback from Vanguard for Cadet Programs </sarcasm>

[Brit_in_CAP]

Unless your PT last for 2 - 2 1/2 hours, do you want everyone running around in shorts and t-shirts for the rest of the evening?  I guess we could have them change into uniforms after PT, but is that opening a door for problems??

PT does not last that long but we have no facilities for changing...so stay in PT gear it is!

Sometimes, especially during the summer, it gets a little...ripe...

Hydration is always taken care of, before anyone gets the wrong idea.   

[Panzerbjorn]

For PT, the cadets are required to either wear the squadron t-shirt (preferred), a plain black t-shirt, or the orange Ranger t-shirt if they've earned it.

I don't mean to start another HMRS discussion (I personally have no issues with the program), but CAPM 39-1 does not authorize an orange t-shirt for HMRS graduates. Does your squadron let NBB, NESA, COS, etc. graduates wear their respective activity t-shirts? If the answer is no, then neither should it allow the HMRS t-shirts.

The Ranger typically do an extra 1/2 mile esprit de corps run after their mile test.

What's the purpose for this? HMRS graduates are not a separate group within the squadron nor have a separate PT standard within CAP Cadet Programs. Units should be developing esprit de corps with all unit members and not a selected group.

It's not a HMRS thing, it's a NCWG Ranger program thing.  Yes, we allow them to wear them if they've earned them.  Yes, we allow NESA t-shirts, MERSAR t-shirts, etc.  I wear my NESA shirts all the time.

The Rangers typically want to run that extra 1/2 mile, so we let them.  No harm in it.

[GroundHawg]

For PT, the cadets are required to either wear the squadron t-shirt (preferred), a plain black t-shirt, or the orange Ranger t-shirt if they've earned it.

I don't mean to start another HMRS discussion (I personally have no issues with the program), but CAPM 39-1 does not authorize an orange t-shirt for HMRS graduates. Does your squadron let NBB, NESA, COS, etc. graduates wear their respective activity t-shirts? If the answer is no, then neither should it allow the HMRS t-shirts.

The Ranger typically do an extra 1/2 mile esprit de corps run after their mile test.

What's the purpose for this? HMRS graduates are not a separate group within the squadron nor have a separate PT standard within CAP Cadet Programs. Units should be developing esprit de corps with all unit members and not a selected group.

It's not a HMRS thing, it's a NCWG Ranger program thing.  Yes, we allow them to wear them if they've earned them.  Yes, we allow NESA t-shirts, MERSAR t-shirts, etc.  I wear my NESA shirts all the time.

The Rangers typically want to run that extra 1/2 mile, so we let them.  No harm in it.

:clap:

[Storm Chaser]

Yes, we allow them to wear them if they've earned them.

Hopefully ONLY while doing PT, as CAPM 39-1 specifically states that a black t-shirt "will be worn under the BDU shirt."

The Rangers typically want to run that extra 1/2 mile, so we let them.  No harm in it.

What is everyone else doing while they wait for the "Rangers" to finish their "esprit de corps" extra 1/2 mile?

On second thought, the discussion is not worth it. Let's get back to PT uniforms.