CAP 'U.S' Command Patches

[BuckeyeDEJ]

CAP doesn't report to anyone in the Air Force hierarchy, nor is it an element of the Holm Center, as you imply.  These statements are both true about CAP-USAF, however, though CAP doesn't report to CAP-USAF, either. If we were, we'd wear an Air Education and Training Command patch on the right breast, as the CAP-USAF folks do.

I stand corrected. But inasmuch that we're part of the Air Force family (albeit the redheaded stepchild sometimes), we report within the hierarchy somewhere... 1AF, AU, wherever.

They put us (through CAP-USAF) under the Holm Center because of the cadet program I'm sure. But it's not like CAP-USAF has cadets.

[Spike]

Could members just wear the CAP Command Shield instead of a Wing Patch??  More in line with AF?

[Hawk200]

Could members just wear the CAP Command Shield instead of a Wing Patch??  More in line with AF?

Command Shield is mandatory on flightsuits (right side of chest). Wing patch is an optional patch for the right arm. Two different patches and placements for them.

The Air Force wears command patch on right chest, wing/optional patch on left arm, unit patch on right arm.

[PHall]

Could members just wear the CAP Command Shield instead of a Wing Patch??  More in line with AF?

Command Shield is mandatory on flightsuits (right side of chest). Wing patch is an optional patch for the right arm. Two different patches and placements for them.

The Air Force wears command patch on right chest, wing/optional patch on left arm, unit patch on right arm.

That's the way ACC does it. Other MAJCOM's such as AMC, USAFE and PACAF have different rules.
It's governed by each MAJCOM's Supplement to AFI 36-2903.

[DC]

For what it's worth, AETC does it as Hawk described. While CAP may not technically fall under the AETC umbrella, following their standard makes much more sense than going with AMC or PACAF's, or any other MAJCOM's policy.

[PHall]

For what it's worth, AETC does it as Hawk described. While CAP may not technically fall under the AETC umbrella, following their standard makes much more sense than going with AMC or PACAF's, or any other MAJCOM's policy.

We don't need to follow their policy, we have our own, it's in the 39-1.

[Spike]

^ I was just thinking instead of 52 wing Patches, we ALL could have one patch. 

[LTC Don]

For what it's worth, AETC does it as Hawk described. While CAP may not technically fall under the AETC umbrella, following their standard makes much more sense than going with AMC or PACAF's, or any other MAJCOM's policy.

We don't need to follow their policy, we have our own, it's in the 39-1.

I agree with DC's sentiments.  I think we should be following what AETC does and our 39-1 should parallel that; it just 'makes sense' from a pilot/flightsuit perspective although I understand CAP isn't about 'making sense'.

Respectively speaking, the flightsuit patch order should be Region, Wing, and Unit. I believe that would actually look pretty cool. 

The 52-wing thing does have validity though; that's a lot of patches.  Another perfectly acceptable alternative is to have the region shield on the chest, unit patch and american flag on opposite shoulders and be done with it.  The point being this 'faux' cap command patch becomes a region patch with the region name in the scroll which would make it a proper command patch in the same spirit of what the Air Force does.

Cheers,

[BillB]

When "He whose name we don't mention" was Florida Wing CC, he adopted the National shield with an arc of FLORIDA above it. The idea was that each wing would go to that patch with the wing name above the seal. That would standize the patch and it's placement on the flight suit. But other Wings never followed up on that.

[RiverAux]

Sure we are not an AF MAJCOM, but for all practical purposes we might as well be. We're probably larger than many of them. 

[DC]

When "He whose name we don't mention" was Florida Wing CC, he adopted the National shield with an arc of FLORIDA above it. The idea was that each wing would go to that patch with the wing name above the seal. That would standize the patch and it's placement on the flight suit. But other Wings never followed up on that.

Thank god, I hated that patch. Soooooo glad to be rid of it.

I still think we should keep the current MAJCOM patch on the chest, stick the wing patch on the left shoulder, and have the option of wearing a unit or other optional patch on the right shoulder.

Keeping a generic CAP shield patch on the front makes more sense to me that going to individual region patches. Regions aren't all that important in an operational sense anyway, and if we are interacting with other agencies it would behoove us to have 'CIVIL AIR PATROL' clearly marked.

Wing patch on the left, in line with AF policy, and lets people know where you are from. Same argument with the flag patch as on BDUs, I seriously doubt we are ever going to need to be obviously marked as American, as we don't operate outside of the US on any kind of regular (or irregular) basis. Right shoulder is open if you have a unit patch, or it could be left open for applicable activity patches, like the NESA MAS or something...

And, while we're on the subject of flight suits, we need to move into the 21st century and drop the leather nametapes and plastic insignia, and adopt embroidered cloth for both.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

When "He whose name we don't mention" was Florida Wing CC, he adopted the National shield with an arc of FLORIDA above it. The idea was that each wing would go to that patch with the wing name above the seal. That would standize the patch and it's placement on the flight suit. But other Wings never followed up on that.

Thank goodness they didn't. And the original concept, which was to use the World War II-era disc with the two-letter state postal abbreviation where the "U.S." was back in the day, was misinterpreted by HWSRN and another couple of folks. (I know this because I recently talked to the guy who proposed changing the patch at that time, who said they went off in a different direction.) One patch, with a subtle variation for each of the 52 wings.

Now Florida has a wing patch that says nearly nothing about Florida, unless someone takes the time to explain it to you. And then you're both scratching your heads. (Bring back the friendly gator!)

[PhoenixRisen]

And the original concept, which was to use the World War II-era disc with the two-letter state postal abbreviation where the "U.S." was back in the day, was misinterpreted by HWSRN and another couple of folks. (I know this because I recently talked to the guy who proposed changing the patch at that time, who said they went off in a different direction.) One patch, with a subtle variation for each of the 52 wings.

I definitely wouldn't mind that... especially being in CAWG (never particularly cared for our patch...).

[Major Carrales]

You couldn't Photoshop a t-shirt on at the same time??

The purpose of the picture was to show the faux nametapes, not display a regulation uniform.  You will also note that one sleeve is rolled up and one is down.  I am wearing a BDU top with unseen pajama pants, last time I looked that was not a CAP uniform.  I am wearing the V neck from having worn my blues after the meeting and before bed.  I had a brainstorm to see if something would work.  Since I am not in uniform, it is not an issue.  I snapped a photo.

You know, I was so excited to post up a new learning tool for new cadets I forgot just how hateful many of you can be en re uniforms.   Please, next time, read the "context" of the posting before spouting off.  Y'all really got to work on that!

[O-Rex]

When "He whose name we don't mention" was Florida Wing CC, he adopted the National shield with an arc of FLORIDA above it. The idea was that each wing would go to that patch with the wing name above the seal. That would standize the patch and it's placement on the flight suit. But other Wings never followed up on that.

Thank goodness they didn't. And the original concept, which was to use the World War II-era disc with the two-letter state postal abbreviation where the "U.S." was back in the day, was misinterpreted by HWSRN and another couple of folks. (I know this because I recently talked to the guy who proposed changing the patch at that time, who said they went off in a different direction.) One patch, with a subtle variation for each of the 52 wings.

Now Florida has a wing patch that says nearly nothing about Florida, unless someone takes the time to explain it to you. And then you're both scratching your heads. (Bring back the friendly gator!)

I heard that story from the same source.

I too noted that there was nothing really "Floridian" about then new wing patch, but all-in-all, it's not bad-looking: I can live with it.

[RiverAux]

I did a little research and CAP does have more personnel than at least three AF major commands - Space (43K), Special Ops (16K), PAC AF Comm (39K).  Couldn't find figures for Global Strike Command. 

So, we're at least as big as a Command.  But, of probably more relevance is the fact that both AFROTC and AFJROTC, our friends at the Holms Center, both have huge numbers of folks and they have the same sort of shield-shaped patch that we do. 

So, maybe we shouldn't call it a command patch, but using it as the CAP emblem as we do certainly seems appropriate and in line with what our equivalents are have. 

[LTC Don]

So, maybe we shouldn't call it a command patch, but using it as the CAP emblem as we do certainly seems appropriate and in line with what our equivalents are have.

As much as I like the CAP Emblem for it's simplicity, and not to read into what you are saying, but I could get behind officially replacing the CAP Emblem with the newer and more appropriate looking 'command patch' thingy. 

I think the thing that bugs me the most is that this 'command patch' was designed and implemented with it being plastered on the vans and corporate aircraft, and even being shown on our national website, yet CAPR 900-2 was never amended to include it's design nor usage.  Apparently, it just 'appeared'.  Indeed, CAPR 900-2 hasn't been amended in six years now. http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/u_082503081227.pdf  Am I missing something are is there another document that specifies design/usage criteria for emblems/logos? Are regulations becoming just optional documents?


Cheers,

[Climbnsink]

We have been through four CAP Command patches for flight/utility uniforms in the past 6 (?) years

Golf shirt. 

[RiverAux]

As much as I like the CAP Emblem for it's simplicity, and not to read into what you are saying, but I could get behind officially replacing the CAP Emblem with the newer and more appropriate looking 'command patch' thingy. 

What are you talking about?  While the design has changed slightly several times, the patch pictured earlier in the thread is still the "command patch". 

[MSgt Van]

Back in the day on active duty (It was a Tuesday) we used to fill in the stars of our SrA stripes with a sharpie instead of going out and buying new Sgt Stripes.

And some jerk like me would come along and remove the "faux Sgt" stripes...