encampment size

[notaNCO forever]

  I was just wondering what everyone thought the ideal size of an encampment should be. Personally unless their is a very experienced staff it really shouldn't exceed a 100 basics. That's just my opinion from experience not what I think should necessarily be the size.

[ol'fido]

Unfortunately, most encampments are limited by space avavailable at the facilities. Summer encampment in Illinois is usually limited to 172 spaces for all cadets at our current facility(Camp Lincoln). But your encampment could be much larger if you have enough senior staff and enough experienced cadet and senior staff members. Start out small and build until you have an experienced cadre that can handle the numbers. But like I said at first, your usual limiting factor is logistics.

[flyguy06]

An Ideal size for me would be every cadet in your WIng

[IceNine]

The ideal size for an encampment is guided entirely by space constraints and staffing.

Additionally, time constraints for getting everyone the same experience can limit the feasible size of an encampment.  There are few hundred other factors but each encampment is going to be completely different.

[RedFox24]

(My)nTop 5 reasons on how basic encampment size will be determined:  1:  Host facility, the room they have is what you have to work with, 2.  Senior Staff experience and availability, 3.  Cadet Staff experience and availability, 4.  Time of year when it is held, and 5.  Location, Location, Location. 

If all you get is 150 beds, then that is all you can fill.  If you don't have experienced senior staff and cadet staff and the number of staff to adequately supervise and manage the encampment, then you have to cut the number participants back.  If it is held when it it conflicts with another activity, holiday or what ever, then you become a second choice and cadets don't come.  Location, well that speaks for itself.

I have been to Type B encampments held in hangers of the local airport to Type A encampments held in some pretty neat and interesting military facilities.  Size ranged from less than 50 basics to over 200.  of those 15 or more encampments, Logistics, staff, time of year and location had more influence over size than anything.

[Ned]

I'm less concerned with maximum sizes, than minimums.

It has been my experience that small encampments (say less than 50 basics) are a fundamentally different experience than larger encampments. 

What do you think?

[ZigZag911]

Smallest one I recall was around 80 basics...simply a low response year, no special reason for it ...there was a somewhat different feel to it than 200 plus basics.

Pro was that individuals got more attention in training, classes, fewer transportation/logistics headaches, and so forth.

Cons: less budget, smaller senior staff (ours was always budget driven -- back in the 1980s my wing did not charge the seniors to serve)

[RedFox24]

I'm less concerned with maximum sizes, than minimums.

It has been my experience that small encampments (say less than 50 basics) are a fundamentally different experience than larger encampments. 

What do you think?

The two best encampments I attended as a cadet, one weekend (B) encampment in Illinois and one week long (A) in Mississippi were both right at 50 basic cadets.  Great staff, both senior and cadet who made the encampment a very good learning experience.  Worst encampment, well combined weeklong encampment of about 200 cadets.  It sucked.

That was as a cadet, as a senior and staff member, the 5 reasons I listed seem to be pretty much how it shakes out anymore.  If you build quality into the program, then the quanity will come and max out your space. 

[PA Guy]

I agree with Ned.  There is a different feel/dynamic with a large well run encampment. The small encampments I have attended were never able to duplicate the energy of the large encampments.

[flyguy06]

I'm less concerned with maximum sizes, than minimums.

It has been my experience that small encampments (say less than 50 basics) are a fundamentally different experience than larger encampments. 

What do you think?

I agree. small encampments are definantly a different feel. a 7 cadet flight versus a 15 cadet flight can make a big difference on the leadership development

[RedFox24]

I'm less concerned with maximum sizes, than minimums.

It has been my experience that small encampments (say less than 50 basics) are a fundamentally different experience than larger encampments. 

What do you think?

I agree. small encampments are definantly a different feel. a 7 cadet flight versus a 15 cadet flight can make a big difference on the leadership development

If you only have 7 cadets in flight, then you have to many flights..............  This seems like the Frank Burns encampment:  I am the cadet commander, your the cadet squadron commander, your the cadet flight commander ,your the cadet FLT Sgt and err...........you cadet, your the flight.

[ol'fido]

 ^^^     Little Grassy Flashback. Strange, the only thing that saved us from that stupidity was a tornado.

[RedFox24]

^^^     Little Grassy Flashback. Strange, the only thing that saved us from that stupidity was a tornado.

True!  And my view of ROTC has been pretty low ever sense that Type B. 

[ol'fido]

Your preachin' to the choir, brother!!

[flyguy06]

I'm less concerned with maximum sizes, than minimums.

It has been my experience that small encampments (say less than 50 basics) are a fundamentally different experience than larger encampments. 

What do you think?

I agree. small encampments are definantly a different feel. a 7 cadet flight versus a 15 cadet flight can make a big difference on the leadership development

If you only have 7 cadets in flight, then you have to many flights..............  This seems like the Frank Burns encampment:  I am the cadet commander, your the cadet squadron commander, your the cadet flight commander ,your the cadet FLT Sgt and err...........you cadet, your the flight.

I was just using a number. I would never have an encampment with a 7 cadet flight.

[Rotorhead]

An Ideal size for me would be every cadet in your WIng

800+?

Where would you hold it? How would you find enough staff? Facilities?

That would be unmanageable.

[Grumpy]

An Ideal size for me would be every cadet in your WIng

800+?

Where would you hold it? How would you find enough staff? Facilities?

That would be unmanageable.

CAWG has 1356 cadets.  Hmm, every cadet in the wing?  Anybody have a vacant base laying around some place? 

[ricks]

An Ideal size for me would be every cadet in your WIng

800+?

Where would you hold it? How would you find enough staff? Facilities?

That would be unmanageable.

CAWG has 1356 cadets.  Hmm, every cadet in the wing?  Anybody have a vacant base laying around some place? 

Fort Ord comes to mind.

[Ned]

CAWG has 1356 cadets.  Hmm, every cadet in the wing?  Anybody have a vacant base laying around some place? 

One of the best aspects of the ACA is that they create an expectation that everybody goes to encampment/annual training each summer.

For the majority of our cadets, we tend to treat encampment as a "one time check box" for the Mitchell.

And that's a shame.


BTW, while there could easily be room for a "all boots on deck" CAWG encampment at a places like MCRD San Diego or Camp Pendleton, there is nothing that says we couldn't do it in 100 GP Large tents on Vandenberg AFB.  There's plenty of room.

Wouldn't that be fun?

Ned Lee

[Grumpy]

Actually, I think it would be great.  Can you immagine the size of the staff and logistics.support troops involved?
I doubt we could feed them using the system we now use.  AF would have step up to the plate.