GSAR Flashlight: Maglight or Surefire

[CAP.is.1337]

I'm revamping my SAR gear, and I need a flashlight. I currently have a 2D military-style light, but I want to upgrade. I currently have a Surefire G2 w/ both the 65 and 120 Lumens lamps. The only drawback I have with the G2 is that battery life is pretty bad: 1hr/65L, and 20min/120L.

I'd like some opinions on using a G2 or other compact CR123-based light for Ground SAR, rather than or in conjunction with the traditional 3D/4D Maglight.

[Al Sayre]

Remember that one definition of a flashlight is a metal or plastic tube used to hold dead batteries... 

I've done away with battery powered flashlights in my gear.  I replaced them with a small "shaker"  type LED  and a wind up 5 LED for when I need a really bright light.  They work fine, and I don't have to worry about the batteries going dead, and the LED's will probably last longer than I will.   I can also charge my cell phone with the wind up.

[a2capt]

You an buy AA batteries in many places by the "pallet"  ;-) Those 100 pack cubes for as low as $9.99 at times, on average $19.99 - all these flashlights that use boutique batteries are just a money hole.

What good is it when you have to keep a brinks truck worth of batteries in tow specifically for it, as well as batteries for the GPS and whatever else.

An armada of AA/AAA operated items is the best IMHO, power is plentiful, you can pass spent cells from the GPS to the LED lights. From Wally World to 7-Eleven, with a Home Despot in between, you can find AA, AAA and your typical battery varieties em mass.

Boutique batteries? Gotta mail order 'em, or hit up Fry's.

[jimmydeanno]

I recommend the battery powered LED lights, if you don't want to shake or wind your flashlight.  I bought a 6 LED headlamp for like $15 and have about 45 hours of use out of the 2 AAA batteries it takes.

[RRLE]

Aside from the boutique battery issue, I find my SureFire gets very hot after a short period of time. The Mini Maglight, which is the same size, stays cool to the touch. For short bursts of instant on, I use the SureFire. For sustained light, ie EmComm bag use, I use the Mini Maglight.

[Airrace]

I recommend the battery powered Mini Mag light with LED lights.

[Thom]

There are no simple answers here.  You've opened a real can of worms.

The good news:  We have more, and better, choices for flashlights now than at any moment in human history.

The bad news:  ditto.

I'll recommend that you pick a Battery Type, then work from there.  123 Lithium cells are far more readily available than they used to be, but AAs are King for 'backwoods middle of the night' procurement, with AAAs and 9 Volts coming in just behind.  Button Cell lights should be secondary, so not really a consideration.  I am carrying lights with different battery types currently, and it definitely makes it more difficult to carry enough spare batteries for each light.

You'll almost have to choose an LED based light to get enough runtime to last through a 24 or 72 hour deployment without excessive spare battery carriage.  There are even SureFire replacement LED Bulbs for your G2 now.  They work just fine, almost identical output as the old incandescent bulb, and much longer runtime.

There are literally HUNDREDS of LED flashlights to choose from, going from low output to OMG!!! and everything in between.

Here's what I'm carrying right now:

Utility:  Photon Freedom Covert - White LED Button Cell - On Lanyard around my Neck 24/7 (Unless I'm showering or, ummm, romantically, whatever...)  - Yes I even sleep with it on 365 days a year

Headlamp:  Princeton Tec Quad Tactical - AAA Cell Headlamp with Red Filter

Handheld:  SureFire 6P LED - 123 Cell Flashlight - Though I am considering replacing it with a SureFire G2D-FYL with multiple output settings - the FYL lights are designed for SAR, Firefighters, etc.

Backup:  SureFire E1B Backup - 123 Cell Flashlight - High and Low settings

Flying Backup:  Streamlight Sidewinder Tactical Flashlight - AA Cell Clip-On Flashlight with Red, Blue, Green, and White LEDs - I bring this instead of (or in addition to) the E1B for flying duties

For more than you Ever wanted to know about Flashlights and Batteries, here is the place:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/

That's just what I carry, you'll need to choose your own path...

Thom Hamilton

[airdale]

- Amen on LED and using AA batteries.

one definition of a flashlight is a metal or plastic tube used to hold dead batteries

Yahbut ... these days you can buy lithium cells with ten year life.  That's what I use for flight bag items where usage is low but I need to have reliable power:  flashlights, hand-held backup radio, etc.  For frequent usage the new "Eneloop" type rechargeables appear to be the way to go. 

- Re Surefire, Streamlight, etc.  I see no reason to buy the fancy branded lights any more.  The more pedestrian brands now have very good LED lights that are not expensive.

I have three or four of the Energizer single-AA lights bought at Target as discussed here: http://edcforums.com/index.php?topic=24963.0 and am very happy with them.  Home Depot also has a fairly wide selection of lights, including lots of flavors of Maglights.  They also sell a Coast branded white/red flashlight for about $25 that looks interesting.  AAA batts though, I think.

[Eclipse]

This was a Woot! on Aug 19th, and I passed.  Luckily my good buddy the Wing DC bought 3 of them and let me check his out.  Well worth $25.  I doubt I'll need a replacement anytime soon.

It runs on regular AA's, but purports 160 hours of use with the included Lithium.  This won't be near as effective as a whack...er..."persuasion" device as my 5 cell (C) Mag lights, but will likely see a lot more use and hold up better if it falls into a stream, etc.

Plus the IR illuminator is useless in my universe but way cool!!

[IceNine]

Dung beetle.

You didn't say it was a woot.  I would have snagged one, that must be the only day I have missed in the last month at least.

At least they still have a gem on there once in a while, its been going down hill as of late.

[IceNine]

As for battery life, I carry a ton of rechargables with me almost everywhere.

I have 2 USB powered chargers from walmart for around 10 bucks.

a larger battery charging station, powered through my cig lighter in the truck.

There are just as many charging options as there are battery types now, and with options like that who needs throw away's?

[Thom]

As for battery life, I carry a ton of rechargables with me almost everywhere.

I have 2 USB powered chargers from walmart for around 10 bucks.

a larger battery charging station, powered through my cig lighter in the truck.

There are just as many charging options as there are battery types now, and with options like that who needs throw away's?

For regular camping and hiking and day-to-day use, I agree.  There are even a number of affordable (not cheap, but affordable...) options for Solar recharging to allow you to 'soak up' the free power that Sol sends us for several hours a day.  Some of the rollable solar chargers are quite convenient even in the wilderness.

That said, SAR and Emergency Services are the only functions where I insist on using Primary cells, whether Lithium or Alkaline.  When I grab a flashlight on a SAR mission, I don't want to have to remember when was the last time I charged this set of batteries, and I don't want to have to partition and keep them separate when I change batteries.

Using Primary cells I just dump the dead ones in the appropriate place, insert new ones, and go on with business.  The predictability of Primary cells is the driving force for me in ES and SAR usage.

Thom Hamilton

[pixelwonk]

This was a Woot! on Aug 19th, and I passed.  Luckily my good buddy the Wing DC bought 3 of them and let me check his out.  Well worth $25.  I doubt I'll need a replacement anytime soon.

It runs on regular AA's, but purports 160 hours of use with the included Lithium.  This won't be near as effective as a whack...er..."persuasion" device as my 5 cell (C) Mag lights, but will likely see a lot more use and hold up better if it falls into a stream, etc.

Plus the IR illuminator is useless in my universe but way cool!!

Got mine. Concur!

[JC004]

This was a Woot! on Aug 19th, and I passed.  Luckily my good buddy the Wing DC bought 3 of them and let me check his out.  Well worth $25.  I doubt I'll need a replacement anytime soon.

It runs on regular AA's, but purports 160 hours of use with the included Lithium.  This won't be near as effective as a whack...er..."persuasion" device as my 5 cell (C) Mag lights, but will likely see a lot more use and hold up better if it falls into a stream, etc.

Plus the IR illuminator is useless in my universe but way cool!!

Got mine. Concur!

me too! w00t!

[N Harmon]

This was a Woot! on Aug 19th, and I passed.  Luckily my good buddy the Wing DC bought 3 of them and let me check his out.  Well worth $25.  I doubt I'll need a replacement anytime soon.

It runs on regular AA's, but purports 160 hours of use with the included Lithium.  This won't be near as effective as a whack...er..."persuasion" device as my 5 cell (C) Mag lights, but will likely see a lot more use and hold up better if it falls into a stream, etc.

Plus the IR illuminator is useless in my universe but way cool!!

Got mine. Concur!

me too! w00t!

Got mine in the mail yesterday as well. At first I thought it was broken because it would not turn on, but it turns out the battery cap is a bit fickle in how it is lined up. In all, it is a pretty good light, except the red isn't bright enough.

[Eclipse]

I actually read the instructions last night and found that 1/4-turn of the IR selector switch is a lockout for
all the lights.  Neat.

[N Harmon]

The following is from the Night Vision equipment in SAR thread:

Useless from the air, and on the rare occasion we're doing a night search, those lost generally want to be found and you'd be much better off with a really bright flashlight.

Can we expand on this here? A really bright flashlight will ruin your night-adapted vision to the point where it may take you hours to get it back. But then why do you need night-adapted vision if you have a really bright flashlight? If the answer is we do not, then of what use is it to carry the red and blue filters for our flashlights?

This web page makes an interesting argument that the use of red light in preserving night-adapted vision is overrated: http://stlplaces.com/night_vision_red_myth/

And the NASAR fundamentals book has a short section on night time searching (page 214) and they suggest a diffuse lantern, perhaps like maybe this:



The importance of night-adapted vision to GSAR is what would dictate our equipment decisions, so I think it's an issue worth hashing out.

[Lancer]

Got mine. Concur!

me too! w00t!

Oh, sure guys...and where's the 'Thanks, Mark, for posting about this on Facebook so we can own this wonderful flashlight?' I see how you are...LOL 

[pixelwonk]

Thanks, Mark, for posting about this on Facebook so we can own this wonderful flashlight.
But where were you when I had to justify the flashlight to CINC-House?

huh? huh?

[Lancer]

Thanks, Mark, for posting about this on Facebook so we can own this wonderful flashlight.
But where were you when I had to justify the flashlight to CINC-House?

huh? huh?

I'm just a phone call away brother...I'm your wingman, you've got to let me know when I need to go in 'Guns - Hot' in support of the mission. 

[airdale]

w00t!

That particular flashlight is not my cup of tea, but since you guys are so excited about them, here they are again: http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=211999092 though five bucks more than woot had them.  Apparently Energizer is discontinuing the product.

and here: http://ready2beat.com/technology/electronics/energizer-mil2aa1l-hardcase-tactical-flashlight-review

[Eclipse]

The following is from the Night Vision equipment in SAR thread:

Useless from the air, and on the rare occasion we're doing a night search, those lost generally want to be found and you'd be much better off with a really bright flashlight.

Can we expand on this here? A really bright flashlight will ruin your night-adapted vision to the point where it may take you hours to get it back. But then why do you need night-adapted vision if you have a really bright flashlight? If the answer is we do not, then of what use is it to carry the red and blue filters for our flashlights?

This web page makes an interesting argument that the use of red light in preserving night-adapted vision is overrated: http://stlplaces.com/night_vision_red_myth/

And the NASAR fundamentals book has a short section on night time searching (page 214) and they suggest a diffuse lantern, perhaps like maybe this:



The importance of night-adapted vision to GSAR is what would dictate our equipment decisions, so I think it's an issue worth hashing out.

There's a difference between blowing out your ability to see in the dark, and NVG's. 

A really bright flashlight, trained in the direction of the search area, is what's needed for a night-time missing person's search.  A lantern with a 360-field of light is also useless because it will constrict your pupils to the point that you can't see anything but the lantern.

The reason you use red or blue lenses for map reading, etc., is so that your eyes continue to be as sensitive as possible for the search itself, with the white light still shining out.

Ditto for digging in your pack in the tent - use a red or blue light and you'll still see ok in whatever available ambient light is around once you snap the flashlight off.

In camp grounds and night searches the available light tends to be very focused and spotty - you can go from a bright lamp to near blackout in a few steps.  Under those conditions you don't want your pupils slammed shut.

I stand by my comment that NVG's that multiply the intensity of ambient light are useless for SAR - in most cases the missing person or thing isn't actively hiding, and there is little value to hiding the searchers, which is the whole point of using NVG's in the military.

Devices that sense and differentiate temperature are a different story as ambient light is usually irrelevant to the device and they will pick up a body or thing very effectively.  These devices are generally well outside the reach of CAP and most other volunteer agencies, however there's no reason they can't be used if we can get access to them.

Anyone who's ever been sitting around a campfire and gotten hit in the eye by a cadet with a 10,000,000 candlepower 48-LED miner's light knows why colored lights should be for general use around camp.  In the actual search, they are usually about as useful as IR.

I also know from personal experience that different eyes work better with different colors of light and the only way to know is to use them in the field and find out.  I don't work or play well with green.  I prefer blue or red, with a preference toward red.

[Thom]

There's a difference between blowing out your ability to see in the dark, and NVG's. 

The reason you use red or blue lenses for map reading, etc., is so that your eyes continue to be as sensitive as possible for the search itself, with the white light still shining out.

Ditto for digging in your pack in the tent - use a red or blue light and you'll still see ok in whatever available ambient light is around once you snap the flashlight off.

I stand by my comment that NVG's that multiply the intensity of ambient light are useless for SAR - in most cases the missing person or thing isn't actively hiding, and there is little value to hiding the searchers, which is the whole point of using NVG's in the military.

Devices that sense and differentiate temperature are a different story as ambient light is usually irrelevant to the device and they will pick up a body or thing very effectively.  These devices are generally well outside the reach of CAP and most other volunteer agencies, however there's no reason they can't be used if we can get access to them.

While I generally agree with Eclipse, I'll make a couple of points:

1.  NVGs definitely DO have a place in SAR, but it is a limited role.  NVGs are excellent for wide area scans of large expanses of Wilderness, where there are NO light sources under normal conditions.  Think scanning the wide open Desert or a National Park at night.  If a survivor has even a small flashlight or strobe light, the NVGs will light up like Christmas.

That said, once the search teams begin making their way in, NVGs lose just about all usefulness.

2.  Thermal imaging Rules!  But, it is still too expensive for most SAR teams, especially CAP.  I believe it will be a critical tool in the future once prices come down further.

3.  Colored Light to maintain Night-Adapted Vision actually works on two different levels.  The first, and most obvious, is the fact that light of a single color exposes less of the eye's apparatus to light pollution than a white (or All-Colors) light.  Your Red cones might be slightly fatigued, but your Green and Blue cones will be nearly fully night-adapted after exposure to only Red light.

HOWEVER, people often overlook the fact that traditionally all Night Vision Preservation colored light filters also accomplish a second task:  They DIM the overall light output of any given flashlight.  Take the standard Military crookneck flashlight.  Screwing on the Red filter not only changes the characteristics of the color of light output, but also Greatly Diminishes the overall output.

In short, Colored Light in and of itself is helpful in preserving night-adapted vision, but LOW INTENSITY Colored Light is the real key.  You can't just fire up a Surefire with a Red filter and call it good.  Some bright lights, even with a Red filter in place, can put out over 100 Lumens.  Your night adapted vision is shot for a good long while after exposure to that amount of light, no matter what color(s) it is.

One of the Post-Katrina lessons learned here in Louisiana is that when it gets DARK outside, your greatest need is for flashlights that are DIM, not BRIGHT.  The bright ones are useful for SAR searches, but useless for most day-to-day tasks, since, as Eclipse noted, once you click them off you are effectively blind for 6 minutes or so.  Whereas a Dim light can allow you to see what needs to be seen, then go back to a night-adapted vision mode in less than a minute.

Thom Hamilton

[Gunner C]

Consider an eye patch at night.  It will preserve NV in one eye.  It will put you off balance for a bit, but once you get used to it, it works pretty well.

[Eclipse]

Consider an eye patch at night.  It will preserve NV in one eye.  It will put you off balance for a bit, but once you get used to it, it works pretty well.

That's all we need is a bunch of GT's walking into trees looking like pirates.

[Gunner C]

I didn't think that they'd authorized the skull and crossbones patch yet. 

[IceNine]

Only for Somali Costal Patrol.

[coolkites]

Only for Somali Costal Patrol.

Hey please do not mock my swivel chair patrol squadron  (joke)

[djskratch]

Personally I use a SureFire 6P with a 65 Lumen lens and a jerry rigged Anglehead Red Lens.  I have A good red lens filtered flashlight that isn't too bright, but it still has more range than most GTM's led flashlights that I've seen.

Note: I also carry a watertight 6 pack of CR-123 Batteries near my flashlight on my Leg Rig and I have a 12 Pack in my LC-2.  Because as most SureFire owners know, it eats batteries for breakfast.

[coolkites]

Personally I use a SureFire 6P with a 65 Lumen lens and a jerry rigged Anglehead Red Lens.  I have A good red lens filtered flashlight that isn't too bright, but it still has more range than most GTM's led flashlights that I've seen.

Note: I also carry a watertight 6 pack of CR-123 Batteries near my flashlight on my Leg Rig and I have a 12 Pack in my LC-2.  Because as most SureFire owners know, it eats batteries for breakfast.

lunch and dinner not to mention snacks in between! 

[Mustang]

Plenty of excellent choices other than Maglight and Surefire. Maglight hasn't kept pace with the state of the art at all (even their LED lights are marginal compared to what else is out there), and Surefire has always charged a premium for the name.

Look into Fenix and Olight, two manufacturers that are on the leading edge in terms of flashlight technology.   Also check out the Candlepower forums and the Nutnfancy channel on YouTube; he has reviewed a few Fenix lights in addition to all the other gun & gear reviews.

[ol'fido]

Bought a Coleman at Walmart. Uses AAs, can switch between white, red, or blue light by turning the head, and is LED. I believe it is a Coleman MAX. Was at a crash sight Thursday night with it. Among the varoius sheriff's deputies and state police plus assorted others, it was the brightest of those I saw.

BTW, Thursday was a bad day for the home-built KR-2 community. They are having there fly in this weekend in Mt. Vernon, IL. One crashed at the airport about 10 am Thursday morning. Another crashed in a bean field near the Mt vernon industrial park about 7 pm the same night. Both pilots were airlifted to St. Louis. During our meeting Thursday night the airport director invited us to come out and look at the second crash site. We got there about an hour after the crash. All of the rescue was over and the LE were arranging site security, so we didn't get in the way but it was awesome to see the level of destruction in a little aircraft.

[Eclipse]

After having had the opportunity to use my Energizer Hardcase for a while, I have to say that's its unequivocally the best flashlight I have ever owned.  They were in the Woot! off last week and I missed them as they flashed by.

I've never been a fan of the angle-type lights, but while camping a few weeks ago, all my other flashlights kept crying about the hardcase kicking their butt. As I'd hoped Woot! finally reposted their test video:

http://cdn-static.viddler.com/flash/publisher.swf?key=7cb08a2d

[Airrace]

 I like and use a SureFire. I also carry a wind up solar powered flashlight as a back up.