Class B minimum requirements

[AlphaSigOU]

For StopLoss (and any new guy coming into CAP):

Some additional pointers on the uniform:

Most of the shirts made by DSCP (Defense Supply Center Philadelphia) are AF shade 1550 (a very light blue polycotton that looks almost white in bright sunlight after a few washings). They're also tapered to an athletic fit. You may need to wear a size or two larger for a comfortable fit. There is a poly-wool shirt that is a slightly darker shade (AF shade 1582, I believe) and is a fuller cut (made by Propper) but all I've seen them in is a long sleeve length. The latter shirt is much more expensive. You must wear a tie with the long sleeve shirt.

The trousers: AF shade 1620 matches the service dress jacket. It is also dry-clean only. The doubleknit polyester version (AF shade 1625) is wash and wear but also recommended to be dry cleaned. If you get the service dress jacket later on BE SURE that the shades and weaves match (1620 jacket and 1620 trousers). Don't wear 1625 trousers with a 1620 jacket - the mismatch is obvious.

Flight cap/service cap: While not required, try to match the shade/weave of the trousers to the cap. AAFES MCSS no longer sells the shade 1625 doubleknit polyester service dress jacket but may have the flight cap/service cap available in that shade. (Last time I was at the Nellis MCSS, all that was available is 1620.) Be very aware there are three distinct pipings on the flight cap: blue piping for cadets, SM without grade and SM NCOs; silver and blue diamond ('zipper') piping for officers through colonel and full silver piping for generals. Don't get the wrong kind. For the service cap, all grades captain and below wear a plain black leather visor; officers from major throug colonel wear clouds and darts ('farts and darts') in a pattern of four (two per side) on the visor; generals wear 'farts and darts' in a pattern of six (three per side). Again, don't get the wrong one. When getting the trousers hemmed, ask for the 'West Point break'. The front of the trousers, when properly hemmed barely rest on the shoe while the back is about 7/8" lower. Trouser cuffs are NOT worn.

Shoes: plain black leather low quarter oxfords. These should be lace-up shoes, no buckles. Plain toed black wellington boots are acceptable (but not with a cowboy boot heel!). Socks are either black or dark blue.

Belt: blue web or elastic with silver roller buckle and tip. The elastic one has some give for comfort. When wearing the belt, be sure to align the edge of the shirt front, belt buckle and trouser fly; this is the 'gig line'.

Undershirt: plain white V-neck. Back in my days WIWOAD (When I Was On Active Duty) crew-neck T-shirts were acceptable for wear with the short sleeve shirt with an open collar, but they are not allowed now. You can wear a crew neck shirt, but you'll have to close the collar and wear a tie.

Tie: The current AF blue tie is polyester and has a slight herringbone pattern. You may see plain dark blue ties as well. The official tie is the herringbone.

Insignia: it is recommended that you place plain white cardboard or foam board backings cut to the shape of the nameplate and other insignia; without them the weight of the insignia will cause them to sag.

Ribbons are optional; it is an unwritten tradition in the Air Force that enlisted always wear their ribbons on the light blue shirt, while officers generally do not wear them.

[Major Carrales]

Well, tact has never been one of my strong points.

That said, I DID provide a link. Look at my post again. I failed to underline the link in my usual manner, but there's one there, underlined this time -

Second - in the absence of a competent mentor, CAPM 39-1 is your friend. Pages 21, and 45 through 52 provide the information you seek. Look in the short sleeve shirt column for X's to indicate the necessary items.

It appears that we have different approaches to this issue, yours perhaps a little more friendly, mine more utilitarian. But, I have provided information, however sparse, and all you have done is deride us for our attitudes.

If I really had an "I know stuff and he doesn't" attitude, I would never have provided anything more than "look in CAPM 39-1" (no link) and left it at that. Now, let's try to continue to help this guy, instead of abetting a urination competition.

Agreed.

[Chief2009]

Wow, AlphaSigOU, great post! Would you mind if I used it at my unit while training new members?

DN

[Airrace]

Don't forget to purchase a pair of shirt stays. They are used to fasten your shirt to your socks. This prevents your shirt from comming out of your pants. I don't think it is listed in 39-1 but I would highly recomend purchasing a pair of them.

[AlphaSigOU]

Wow, AlphaSigOU, great post! Would you mind if I used it at my unit while training new members?

DN

Please do use it!

[Camas]

Flight cap/service cap:
Socks are either black or dark blue.

Last I checked the flight cap comes in a shade 1620 which will match the wool blend coat and trousers while the service cap is in a shade 1625 which is the 100% polyester material. As stated the coat and trousers must match but the cap does not. As far as socks go I was under the belief that only black socks are authorized. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[citizensoldier]

People, you cannot merely point people blindly to regulations...there is a lot to be said for proper guidance and mentoring for new members.

I have long pitied the cadets that come here for guidance and are constantly knocked down by people too annoyed by a newbie question to answer constructively or the uniform NATIONAL SOCIALIST WORKERS PARTY that occasionally rears its head.

We need to start helping each other out, especially new people, or else all the self righteous posturing many of you put up is is no more than mindless rhetorical drivel. 

And don't insult anyone's intelligence here with a "if you can't stand the fire, stay out of the kitchen" or "you don't have to read the posts if you don't agree" arguments.  Simply help a brother or sister CAP airman out.  Is that too much to ask? They come here for help and we throw up a wall of discourtesy.

Most would hopefully be loathed to act that way in front of a cadet or new senior.  Shouldn't be different here.

SGT Eppler

[citizensoldier]

Also something to consider, forums let people get quick answers.  Sometimes the answer is available fast.  My civilian job has me neck deep in city, county, state and federal law books and CFR's along with the load of .mil stuff I used to have to know.  Give help if you can and show them where to find it.  Act like a leader.  If I new an answer to a question being asked and don't help, I am a burden here.

[AlphaSigOU]

Flight cap/service cap:
Socks are either black or dark blue.

Last I checked the flight cap comes in a shade 1620 which will match the wool blend coat and trousers while the service cap is in a shade 1625 which is the 100% polyester material. As stated the coat and trousers must match but the cap does not. As far as socks go I was under the belief that only black socks are authorized. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct. Black socks only, per AFI 36-2903 and CAPM 39-1.

[CadetProgramGuy]

Class Bs?

My Army comes out in me from time to time as well.......

Welcome!!

[AlphaSigOU]

Who still refers to the short sleeve blues as 1550s? [raises hand] 

[NIN]

BTW, guys, while you can surely "help" people via the Internet, I think you'd be hard-pressed to truly "mentor" someone via a long-distance medium like this.

(speaking strictly from my 16+ years of experience on CAP Internet-based mediums such as this august body and the old CAPTalk mailing list)

[RADIOMAN015]

Alright ... I effectively have no mentor, his interests are else where and I'm getting no uniform guidance.  What is the minimum a Senior Member needs for his Class Bs?

AF blue pants
AF blue short sleeve shirt
dress shoes
black dress socks
?
?
?
?

Thanks in advance.

Why don't you just buy the required senior member CAP Distinctive uniform --  White Aviator Shirt & grey pants, black belt, black shoes, black shocks.   
See:  http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M39_1_chap_4.pdf  page 75 & page 83 Table 4-3.

This is the least costly uniform & it allows you the most flexibility regarding wear.  e.g. grooming standards, no hat, no weight standards, no outer wear jacket standards.   You can use the money saved by not buying an AF uniform with all the required hats/outer wear etc, and utilize it to buy the Blue BDU Field Uniform.  So than you will have two uniforms that will meet CAP requirements with the maximum wear flexibility.

Of course IF you are a AF "wanna bee" than by all means spend your money on the AF style uniform
RM   

[PHall]

Of course IF you are a AF "wanna bee" than by all means spend your money on the AF style uniform
RM

So, in your opinion, any senior member who wears the AF style uniform is a "AF wanna be"?

Nice to know you think so highly of us.  Of course I retired from the AF Reserve with 31 years, does that still make me a wanna be?

[Hawk200]

Of course IF you are a AF "wanna bee" than by all means spend your money on the AF style uniform
RM

So, in your opinion, any senior member who wears the AF style uniform is a "AF wanna be"?

Nice to know you think so highly of us.  Of course I retired from the AF Reserve with 31 years, does that still make me a wanna be?

I'm wondering the same thing. Then again, I didn't really spend anything on my blues, only on the CAP specific insignia. All those blue items were left over from when I was Air Guard. In order to wear CAP specific uniforms, I would have actually had to spend a lot more money.

Why do blues and BDU's equal "wanna be"? That opinion is starting to get on my nerves.

I would also have to disagree that the aviator combo is the "least costly". The golf shirt combo is probably the actual least costly. I have actually considered one. I'd have to buy grey pants though. All the pants I own are pretty much khaki.

[RADIOMAN015]

So, in your opinion, any senior member who wears the AF style uniform is a "AF wanna be"?

Nice to know you think so highly of us.  Of course I retired from the AF Reserve with 31 years, does that still make me a wanna be?

I'm wondering the same thing. Then again, I didn't really spend anything on my blues, only on the CAP specific insignia. All those blue items were left over from when I was Air Guard. In order to wear CAP specific uniforms, I would have actually had to spend a lot more money.

Why do blues and BDU's equal "wanna be"? That opinion is starting to get on my nerves.

I would also have to disagree that the aviator combo is the "least costly". The golf shirt combo is probably the actual least costly. I have actually considered one. I'd have to buy grey pants though. All the pants I own are pretty much khaki.

The context of the original post was from a new senior member who didn't (and most likely) had no AF military service.  All of the other postings were basically leaning the new member to the AF style blue uniform.  I just gave him  MY perspective.  For MOST new CAP senior members the corporate avaiator shirt is the least expensive.  I would discourage ANY new members in buying expensive uniforms until they are really sure that the CAP program is for them.  No need being an expensive "wanna bee" right off from the start

For those of you (us) that are retired or former AF/AFR/ANG that meet the standards, surely save yourself some money and wear what you have available IF you in fact want to maintain the appropriate military wear standards as far as weight, hair etc.   (I guess you (and I) wouldn't be a "wanna be", you would be a "have  (had) a bee" )

BTW I'm fairly confident that I'm not  the only military retiree (or for that matter other current military members) who has the same opinion about the senior member AF "wanna bees" in CAP.
RM 

[PHall]

BTW I'm fairly confident that I'm not  the only military retiree (or for that matter other current military members) who has the same opinion about the senior member AF "wanna bees" in CAP.
RM

You know, as long as they wear the AF style uniform properly, I could care less if they're a  so called "AF wanna be".
And properly means meeting weight and grooming standards.

[Major Carrales]

Did any of you guys ever think that maybe we non-prior service might just want to wear the Civil Air Patrol uniform because we want to be in the Civil Air Patrol?

I should point out that a USAF style uniform with CAP Distinctive devices is no longer a USAF uniform per se, but is a CAP one covered by CAP Manuals and Regulations.

[EMT-83]

BTW I'm fairly confident that I'm not  the only military retiree (or for that matter other current military members) who has the same opinion about the senior member AF "wanna bees" in CAP.

So, I spent two nights out this week and most of the weekend working on CAP business because I'm a wanna bee? Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[RADIOMAN015]

BTW I'm fairly confident that I'm not  the only military retiree (or for that matter other current military members) who has the same opinion about the senior member AF "wanna bees" in CAP.

So, I spent two nights out this week and most of the weekend working on CAP business because I'm a wanna bee? Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Hmm,  I guess we would have to ask what type of uniform were you wearing while you performed all of those CAP voluntary duties to see if you fit the definition      

I personally don't really care IF someone is an AF "wanna bee" or not  -- doesn't affect me working with them in CAP at all.  I do chuckle to myself when I see this. (and I'm sure many of you know exactly what I am talking about).

I'm more concerned about the assigned missions being accomplished rather than what CAP uniform a member is wearing, whether it be a golf shirt or BDU's with spit shinned boots, etc.   

Again with new senior members we should look at what will cost them the least amount of initial funds outlay.  For most it is going to be the aviator shirt & that's all the regulation requires for a uniform, including working at any mission base functions.  Nuff, said :angel:

RM