National SAR Competition

[Chris Jacobs]

Today i was looking in the uniform manual and i found a reference that talked about a national SAR competition patch.  I have never heard of the national SAR competition before.  Has any one else heard of the competition.

[Matt]

Once upon a time I heard of it...

They (as in CAP) used to hold region SAR Comps.  Again, that was once upon a time.  Or at least to my knowledge.

[TDHenderson]

I can scan my National SARCOMP patch from 1986 and post if so you can see what it looks like. 

It is a shame, we used to train like crazy for the Wing and Region comps in the 80's.  Making it to Whiteman AFB for the National SARCOMP was quite a thrill.

[Chris Jacobs]

The picture of the patch is still in 39-1.  I wish it still exsisted.  I would really love to do it.

[Matt]

Well, Chris, if you feel really up to it...

Propose something and send it up the chain... I think the largest part is the funding.  It's hard enough to find funding for national cadet comp from each respective wing... I can't say I wouldn't want to see it or play in it, but it boils down to the person with the pockets - The Air Force.

[Chris Jacobs]

I would love to take that on as a project.  But i don't think i will have the time for that scale of a project for the next decade.  I might try to see about getting one just for my wing, and then i guess it could become a regional thing, and then national.

[ZigZag911]

I believe something is in the works -- near term, say within the next year -- for region competitions.

I'm not sure if this is individual regions acting on their own, or a national effort.

The SARCOMPs in the 80s were a great training motivator, and morale booster....it did take an awful lot of intense effort.....might be better if the competitons were every other year, or even every three years (I'm talking national here).

[Matt]

I would love to take that on as a project.  But i don't think i will have the time for that scale of a project for the next decade.  I might try to see about getting one just for my wing, and then i guess it could become a regional thing, and then national.

Amen to that.

[Chris Jacobs]

What kind of things did the competition include.  how did they judge things.

[ZigZag911]

In the 80s it focused mainly on field work....air search techniques,
ground team ops, air/ground coordination.....kind of light on mission management evaluation, but it was a very different ball game in the 80s....we were just getting into ELTs in a big way, and ES training and qualifications, while fine on paper, were somewhat loosely applied for mission management and base personnel....aircrew & ground team training, even then, were quite rather rigorous, which is as it should be!

[TDHenderson]

In the 80s it focused mainly on field work....air search techniques,
ground team ops, air/ground coordination.....kind of light on mission management evaluation, but it was a very different ball game in the 80s....we were just getting into ELTs in a big way, and ES training and qualifications, while fine on paper, were somewhat loosely applied for mission management and base personnel....aircrew & ground team training, even then, were quite rather rigorous, which is as it should be!

Yep, also Witness Interview and Ground Team individual and vehicle equipment inventory
were also evaluated areas. 

[ELTHunter]

I think TN Wg used to have Ground Team competitions once upon a time.  I think they went by the way side because it was felt that they contributed to too much competition between squadrons, and not to the team work concept.

[Chris Jacobs]

I have heard rumors that the national SAR competition may be comming back this next year.

[mawr]

I've heard the same.  Well, at least there will be a SER competition.

[BillB]

So there will be a SER SAR. If it includes Search Environmental Elements it would be
SER SAR SEE, good title for a song

[mawr]

So there will be a SER SAR. If it includes Search Environmental Elements it would be
SER SAR SEE, good title for a song

:clap:

[Johnny Yuma]

I have heard rumors that the national SAR competition may be comming back this next year.

Look for one in 2008, that seems to be the date batted around. Apparently NER and SEr are having Region SARCOMPS next year to guage participation.

One of the locations being looked at for National SARCOMP is Salina, KS. due to the central location, available facilities and military support. Stay tuned

[Chris Jacobs]

I know that my wing has been batting the idea around also.  Is there any thing from national yet that is official.  Any rumors on whether the national comp will be like the old ones that every one seems to remember in my wing or are there going to be some new additions. 

I saw some of the SARCOMP trophies last weekend when i was at my wing headquarters.

[RiverAux]

I don't know about competitions, but I've heard talk of starting to focus on holding multi-Wing SAREXs, which I think would be of much more use to CAP than a competition. 

[Chris Jacobs]

Pacific region did some stuff this last year.

[NEBoom]

I think TN Wg used to have Ground Team competitions once upon a time.  I think they went by the way side because it was felt that they contributed to too much competition between squadrons, and not to the team work concept.

IMHO that was a huge problem with the competitions.  People didn't know when to quit with it, and some of the competition attitude bled over into actual missions.  Not good.  I am glad it's dead, and don't want to see it again.

However...

I don't know about competitions, but I've heard talk of starting to focus on holding multi-Wing SAREXs, which I think would be of much more use to CAP than a competition. 

This would be interesting, fun, and useful.

Sorry, but I'm just not a big competition kind of guy.

<Edit:  Fixed a couple of spelling errors>

[DNall]

TxWG is trying to put together a GT competition as we speak, and I tend to agree that it's just not where our energy needs to be focused. I can see the usefulness in humbling a stagnate Sq & showing them how far their skills need to progress so as to spur them on to that goal, and the idea of competition itself is not a bad one - you see things like William Tell for instance. I just don't know if we have the prfessional synergy to make best use of that format being that we're off in all our seperate units w/ little big picture concept.

I would very much like to see multi-state/Wg/Gp excercises. We might try to work something out down here. I didn't bother asking when I had the chance this wknd, but I think we could get some serious ops together pretty easy if we piggyback another org - in my case probably the CG.

[ZigZag911]

I think TN Wg used to have Ground Team competitions once upon a time.  I think they went by the way side because it was felt that they contributed to too much competition between squadrons, and not to the team work concept.

IMHO that was a huge problem with the competitions.  People didn't know when to quit with it, and some of the competition attitude bled over into acutal missions.  Not good.  I am glad it's dead, and don't want to see it agin.

However...

One approach that reduced the cutthroat element of comepetition was to form a wing level team (kind of an 'all star team' concept!) following wing wide competition....it tended to work because the National competition was usually in a central/midwestern state, and few squadrons in NER, SER, MER, PCR had complete teams (ground, especially) that could afford and were available to trek off to Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa or some similar place in late August.

[NEBoom]

I think TN Wg used to have Ground Team competitions once upon a time.  I think they went by the way side because it was felt that they contributed to too much competition between squadrons, and not to the team work concept.

IMHO that was a huge problem with the competitions.  People didn't know when to quit with it, and some of the competition attitude bled over into actual missions.  Not good.  I am glad it's dead, and don't want to see it again.

However...

One approach that reduced the cutthroat element of comepetition was to form a wing level team (kind of an 'all star team' concept!) following wing wide competition....it tended to work because the National competition was usually in a central/midwestern state, and few squadrons in NER, SER, MER, PCR had complete teams (ground, especially) that could afford and were available to trek off to Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa or some similar place in late August.

Do you think there's worthwhile training value in something like that?  I'm just remembering the old saying, "train like you fight, fight like you train."  My concern is, if you start making wing-level "all star" type teams then you create an artificial sort of situation where you're no longer operating during competitions like you would in "real life."

Good problem to address though, competition can sharpen everyone up when conducted properly, but if it gets carried away it becomes detrimental.

[ZigZag911]

I think TN Wg used to have Ground Team competitions once upon a time.  I think they went by the way side because it was felt that they contributed to too much competition between squadrons, and not to the team work concept.

IMHO that was a huge problem with the competitions.  People didn't know when to quit with it, and some of the competition attitude bled over into actual missions.  Not good.  I am glad it's dead, and don't want to see it again.

However...

One approach that reduced the cutthroat element of comepetition was to form a wing level team (kind of an 'all star team' concept!) following wing wide competition....it tended to work because the National competition was usually in a central/midwestern state, and few squadrons in NER, SER, MER, PCR had complete teams (ground, especially) that could afford and were available to trek off to Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa or some similar place in late August.

Do you think there's worthwhile training value in something like that?  I'm just remembering the old saying, "train like you fight, fight like you train."  My concern is, if you start making wing-level "all star" type teams then you create an artificial sort of situation where you're no longer operating during competitions like you would in "real life."

Good problem to address though, competition can sharpen everyone up when conducted properly, but if it gets carried away it becomes detrimental.

You have a point, but there are also reasons favoring the 'all star' approach:

1) better inter-operability, when a mission requires personnel from around the wing to join forces (a multi-day REDCAP, actual DR mission, or SAREVAL)

2) Exchange of ideas and methods -- a 'cross-pollenization' effect

[NEBoom]

One approach that reduced the cutthroat element of comepetition was to form a wing level team (kind of an 'all star team' concept!) following wing wide competition....it tended to work because the National competition was usually in a central/midwestern state, and few squadrons in NER, SER, MER, PCR had complete teams (ground, especially) that could afford and were available to trek off to Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa or some similar place in late August.

Do you think there's worthwhile training value in something like that?  I'm just remembering the old saying, "train like you fight, fight like you train."  My concern is, if you start making wing-level "all star" type teams then you create an artificial sort of situation where you're no longer operating during competitions like you would in "real life."

Good problem to address though, competition can sharpen everyone up when conducted properly, but if it gets carried away it becomes detrimental.

You have a point, but there are also reasons favoring the 'all star' approach:

1) better inter-operability, when a mission requires personnel from around the wing to join forces (a multi-day REDCAP, actual DR mission, or SAREVAL)

Great, if you can get enough people involved.  Would a team be large enough?  Perhaps making sure the same people aren't on the team over and over again would help promote inter-operability over time.  It would take years though.

2) Exchange of ideas and methods -- a 'cross-pollenization' effect

Always a good thing!

[CAP/ES]

Hi Team,
     Here is the official word.  Region SAR Competitions (SARCOMP) are authorized and they are at the option of the leadership in each region.  Some of the regions are having are having them in 2007.  I am personally running the one in the Northeast Region.  And, yes we have done preliminary research for having a possible National SARCOMP in Sep 2008 or later.  The prime location is Salina, Kansas.  But, please note that the CAP National Board has to approve a National SARCOMP and this item is not on any future agenda.  There are many strong pros and cons for having a National SARCOMP, and the Leadership is currently focused on other more pressing priorities.

Thanks,

Joe

//SIGNED//
JOSEPH H. ABEGG, Lt Col, CAP
National Emergency Services Officer

[RiverAux]

Just thought I'd mention this, but there is an International Search and Rescue Competition every year involving the US and Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliaries.  The US CG Aux spends a few hundred thousand dollars on it (excluding the costs involved in holding the local competitions to decide on the US teams).  It is usually strongly critisized as a waste of money over on the CG Aux board.  There is some lingering resentment because some folks got the idea that it was actually supposed to make a profit somehow and that this would get re-directed back to flotillas to use powerpoint projectors and other such equipment.