New Radio

[Stonewall]

Need some quick confirmation.

Vertex Standard VS-350 series radio.  I understand this is a compliant radio for use in CAP?  Yes or no.  Is this radio currently and legally authorized for use in CAP?

Our comms guy that we deal with where I work has 9 available at $208 plus S&H and he says they're compliant.

Does anyone have any experience with this radio?

This is the radio that I currently use at work, as do our lifeguards (on the beach) and we have nothing but positive feedback.  Just wanted some CAPesque feedback if any is available.

[Eclipse]

I don't see it on the current Narrowband list:  https://ntc.cap.af.mil/comm/equipment/vhf_list.cfm

In fact I don't see any VS series radios.

Main page here:  https://ntc.cap.af.mil/comm/equipment/equipment.cfm

[Stonewall]

I found the CAP site listing compliant radios.  I guess Yaesu bougth Vertex so it is listed as "Yaesu (including Vertex)".

Looks like the guy was trying to sell me some radios or honestly didn't know what I was talking about.  The VX-350 series radios are not listed as compliant for CAP, not that I can see anyway.

[♠SARKID♠]

The radio isn't compliant because of its frequency stability.  The standard for portables is 2.5ppm, and the VX-350 is listed as +/- 2.5ppm; Not a tight enough spec.

[Duke Dillio]

I would have so jumped on that deal too.  I haven't had any success finding anything that I would want for less than $900.  Of course, I am trying to keep my stuff all Kenwood since I have a TK-730G.  I want to eventually set it up so I can trunk it, although I'm a total idiot in that respect.  Trunking is when you can broadcast from your portable to your vehicle and have it retrans, right?  If that's not the term, I know that I want to set up my vehicle and my portable to do that, I think...

[♠SARKID♠]

I would have so jumped on that deal too.  I haven't had any success finding anything that I would want for less than $900.  Of course, I am trying to keep my stuff all Kenwood since I have a TK-730G.  I want to eventually set it up so I can trunk it, although I'm a total idiot in that respect.  Trunking is when you can broadcast from your portable to your vehicle and have it retrans, right?  If that's not the term, I know that I want to set up my vehicle and my portable to do that, I think...

I have the same radio in my truck.  That's not what trunking is though (Trunking - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trunked_radio_system).  You're thinking of what amounts to a simplex repeater.

[Stonewall]

The radio isn't compliant because of its frequency stability.  The standard for portables is 2.5ppm, and the VX-350 is listed as +/- 2.5ppm; Not a tight enough spec.

I don't know what all this means, but he explained that +/- 2.5ppm is well within NTIA standards and is the norm.  I sent him the link Eclipse provided and he is going to check it out and get back with me tomorrow.

He explained that this radio, which is specifically the Vertex (Yaesu) VX-351 isn't even a year old and would have been made to all new/current specs required by commercial use VHF portable radios.

He did offer me a VX-821 which is waterproof to 30 ft for 30 minutes which usually runs for $600 for just under $500, but I don't need a radio that bad.  In fact, I don't even know if I need one at all.  I still have my "compliant" Motorola MT 2000 which made it by the skin of its teeth because it wasn't tested.

[♠SARKID♠]

I went onto the NTIA Redbook and looked at the actual reg, and it appears that he's right, it does comply.  The standard is 5ppm, 2.5 is for phase modulation (don' ask).   The radio may have never been tested.  If it had and was found not to be compliant, it would still be on the list just with red boxes next to it.  Fire an email up to Hartley, the radio standards officer along with a copy of the VX-350 brocure (http://www.two-wayradio.com/Vertex_pdfs/VX-350.pdf) and ask him to take a look at the specs.  If they meet, he may add it to the list.

[Stonewall]

Fire an email up to Hartley, the radio standards officer along with a copy of the VX-350 brocure (http://www.two-wayradio.com/Vertex_pdfs/VX-350.pdf) and ask him to take a look at the specs.

Done.

[JoeTomasone]

The VX-350 appears to have similar specifications to the VX-300 for intermod rejection - and thus would appear to be non-compliant.

[Eclipse]

He did offer me a VX-821 which is waterproof to 30 ft for 30 minutes...

We had a VX-150 go swimming in lake Michigan during a joint exercise.

One of the divers knocked it off the boat and then chased it down, he said he could see the lights on as he chased it.

It went fubar that day, but Vertex repaired it for about $100 and its still in use today.

[♠SARKID♠]

The VX-350 appears to have similar specifications to the VX-300 for intermod rejection - and thus would appear to be non-compliant.

And intermod rejection is the whole reason that the compliance list isn't up to date.  None of the manufacturers will upgrade to the new testing standards for intermod.

[Stonewall]

Hello Lt Col Bowden,

I took a look at the spec sheet you sent me, and unfortunately, I have
to tell you that the VX-351 does not meet the NTIA requirements for
wideband or narrowband.

Under wideband, it's receiver selectivity is insufficient, and under
narrowband it's receiver spurious response and IMD rejection are both
inadequate.

I have entered it into the lists - thank you for bringing it to our
attention!

73 DE Hartley

[♠SARKID♠]

A shame, thats too bad.  If you really want to upgrade you can always find something pretty cheap on ebay.

[Stonewall]

Any suggestions?  I'm hoping for under $500 and will not buy anything until I find one for that price.

[JoeTomasone]

Any suggestions?  I'm hoping for under $500 and will not buy anything until I find one for that price.

Ebay.  Find something that's approved and Ebay it.

The only inexpensive radios I have seen are not listed as post-'06 compliant.

[Eclipse]

You have to be careful with eBay - the majority of compliant radios have to have been in service before 01/06 or are listed as TBD (most are TBD, in fact).

Should they say "no" later, that's an expensive lesson.

Considering you have a compliant radio today, my advice would be to not spend any money until the whole Narrowband project works itself out.

You might also check with your Wing DC, odds are there is gear on the shelf waiting for a home.

[SSgt Rudin]

You have to be careful with eBay - the majority of compliant radios have to have been in service before 01/06 or are listed as TBD (most are TBD, in fact).

Should they say "no" later, that's an expensive lesson.

Considering you have a compliant radio today, my advice would be to not spend any money until the whole Narrowband project works itself out.

You might also check with your Wing DC, odds are there is gear on the shelf waiting for a home.

I am looking at buying a 25w Motorola Spectra (mobile radio for my truck, already have 5w portable radios, but they leave something to be desired when trying to call aircraft that aren't right on top of me) off eBay, the list has the Astro Spectra with Yes's across the board, but nothing on just a Spectra.

The Motorola site was no help, all it told me is the radio was no longer manufactured and did not have a spec sheet that I could look at/show to my DC to see if it is compliant. Anyone know anything about this radio?

I'm doubting (but really really hoping) it is because of the price

[JoeTomasone]

You have to be careful with eBay - the majority of compliant radios have to have been in service before 01/06 or are listed as TBD (most are TBD, in fact).

I was referring to post-1/06 compliant radios, such as Motorola HT1000's. 

I see one on Ebay now for $140.00, and a pack of 6 with charger for $2100 or so.

[arajca]

You have to be careful with eBay - the majority of compliant radios have to have been in service before 01/06 or are listed as TBD (most are TBD, in fact).

Should they say "no" later, that's an expensive lesson.

Considering you have a compliant radio today, my advice would be to not spend any money until the whole Narrowband project works itself out.

You might also check with your Wing DC, odds are there is gear on the shelf waiting for a home.

I am looking at buying a 25w Motorola Spectra (mobile radio for my truck, already have 5w portable radios, but they leave something to be desired when trying to call aircraft that aren't right on top of me) off eBay, the list has the Astro Spectra with Yes's across the board, but nothing on just a Spectra.

The Motorola site was no help, all it told me is the radio was no longer manufactured and did not have a spec sheet that I could look at/show to my DC to see if it is compliant. Anyone know anything about this radio?

I'm doubting (but really really hoping) it is because of the price

I have a 110W Spectra now. It is not narrowband compliant. It is wideband, but since you'd probably get less than a year out of it, way spend the money - unless it's REALLY REALLY cheap (>$100).