Don't salute the aviator shirt or csu uniforms!

[Smokey]

Yeah Grumpy...you never saluted me!

But back on track....I'm really in wonder why so many want to avoid saluting and will come up with any and all excuses.    It seems however, those that are trying every trick in the book to avoid it have yet to say why it offends them so much.

[SilverEagle2]

I think some of the "purists" want to punish those who can't or choose not to wear an Air Force uniform.

That is why I (as a purist by your inferred definition*) feel that if you are wearing and equivalent uniform, you use the same courtesies. No punishment needed.

*One who thinks as an USAF AUX we should wear the USAF Uniform

[brasda91]

Everyone seems to be missing the one major thing.  We salute the grade, not the uniform, not the person.  So, regardless of the uniform, if it has grade, it deserves to be saluted.  Even if it doesn't have grade and you feel like saluting, very well.  That's just being polite in my book.

[brenaud]

IIRC, there was a revised CAPP151 for comment on the NHQ site some time ago and it addressed this.  (Mind you, I'm talking about a proposed revision of a pamphlet, not a published version of a reg).  Basically it applied the same customs and courtesies to all of our uniforms except the golf shirt and blazer combo.  Never heard what happened to that proposal, though.  Personally, I like it.  Especially since it looks more consistent to the general public.  Members in uniforms with "obvious" grade insignia (none on golf shirt, and it's really hard to see at a distance on the blazer) act the same way.  Just my $.02.

[SJFedor]

Technically, we have 2 casual uniforms, the golf shirt and the polo shirt, which is worn on the VSAF program.

I was fairly sure the USAF had a golf shirt, but couldn't confirm it easily.

Since I gave the USAF a point on a limited-wear flight suit (darkblue for t-birds), its only fair we take a point on the limited-wear VSAF shirt.

Lets go to the big board for the new totals...

Battle / working uniform:
CAP - 2,  camo & dark blue.
USAF - 3, camo, desert, and the ABU.

Flight suit:
CAP - 2,  Green & dark blue (technically three until March 09).
USAF - 3, green, desert, dark blue.

Mess dress:
CAP - 1
USAF - 1

Service Dress:
CAP - 3, whites, blues, CSU
USAF - 1, blues (soon to be two when they decide on the new one)

Golf shirt:
CAP - 2
USAF - 1

CAP - 10 basic uniforms
USAF - 9 basic uniforms

Forgot the USAF PT uniforms.

[Eclipse]

Forgot the USAF PT uniforms.

I considered it - its another tie.  We both have one, at least according to Vanguard, though the I don't think ours is actually defined in 39-1.

[DNall]

This discussion has triggered a question in my mind, and I'd like some input.

Recently, the Congress changed the law pertaining to rendering honors to the colors, and wrote a provision that VETERANS may render the military salute regardless of what clothing they are wearing.

Doesn't our ICL, which requires the civilian hand-to-heart salute when in corporate duds, now conflict with Federal law which gives a veteran the option of what salute to render?

The federal law says MAY, not WILL. A veteran has the choice to salute colors in civilian cloths. They also have the choice not to do so, and CAP regs direct all members not to do so in the golf shirt combo. That doesn't conflict, it just restricts you from making that choice for yourself, which is what all uniform regs do.

[winterg]

This is really a non-issue.  We should conform to the TRADITION of the salute.  Regardless of the "type" of uniform worn, if the person is senior in rank, salute. Out of respect.  Always ere on the side of courtesy.  I spend a lot of time with veteran palls of mine.  We routinely salute each other.  In civvies.  At the bar.  Are we wrong?  No.

I do not give a rat's (censored) what any reg or pamphlet says.  If Maj. Gen. Courtier was wearing a bib-overall I would salute her out of respect.

If I had met (he should not be named) (and I have) regardless of my personal feelings, I would salute him. (and did)

If I saw Rex tomorrow, despite him not being a member and myself out of uniform, I would salute him.

Respect.  Courtesy.  Not just words.   A way of life.

[cnitas]

Respect.  Courtesy.  Not just words.   A way of life.

:clap:

[SarDragon]

OK, I think the original discussion was merely trying to clarify a potentially embarrassing situation, for which, at this point in the thread, there appears to be no right answer.

Some folks think a salute is mandatory, regardless of situation. Others are less confident on when salutes are required, with good reason - there is no consistent, defined policy. Until that happens, there is no right answer.

My view - no hat, no salute (NHNS), pretty much a carryover from my cadet training, and subsequent military service. This worked well in CAP, since the only corporate uniforms, up until about 1989, were the blazer, smurf suit, and guyabara shirt. The latter two have gone the way of the dinosaur, so only the blazer remains. I have only ever seen saluting in the blazer uniform as a part of an awards presentation (YMMV).

Since the advent of the polo shirt and aviator shirt combinations, the NHNS policy remains germane. All of the above were/are considered "civilian clothes" in the eyes of the Air Force. NHNS still applies.

Now we have the CSU, with hat, and the plot thickens. Even though it is a corporate uniform, which is probably considered civilian clothes in the eyes of the Air Force, it has a hat, and therefore implies the exchange of the salute. It does violate AF policy of mixing uniform items with civilian clothes, an example being the prohibition of wearing the AF blue belt and silver buckle with the aviator combination. But now we are wearing a half-baked mish-mash of civilian and AF items available only to a portion of our members.

My bottom line, IMHO, common sense approach is still - no hat, no salute. I'm outta here. Enjoy. 

[CAP_truth]

Why not follow the old adage, when in doubt salute. You are rendering honor to the grade or the position not the individual. When I see someone I know to be of higher rank and I am in any AF uniform, CSU, or Whit shirt/grey pants I would salute them regardless. But that's just me.

[Grumpy]

Is this horse ever going to revive?  Or do we just keep beating it?

[AlphaSigOU]

Is this horse ever going to revive?  Or do we just keep beating it?

It's probably flatter than a pancake right now. 

[winterg]

Eclipse,

You forgot a uniform.

http://mms.businesswire.com/bwapps/mediaserver/ViewMedia?mgid=163572&vid=5&download=1

We should prob put it under utilities, maybe?

[Eclipse]

Eclipse,

You forgot a uniform.

http://mms.businesswire.com/bwapps/mediaserver/ViewMedia?mgid=163572&vid=5&download=1

We should prob put it under utilities, maybe?

Heh - YES, and it includes a "SAR" helmet!   :clap:

[PHall]

Isn't this thread way overdue a visit from "Mike the Lock Master"?

[Pumbaa]

This should do the trick...



I say salute when you know it wil irritate those CAPtalkers who say no.  And then Don't salute when you want to irritate the other 50% of the CAPTalkers.  Either way there will be someone who will start a variation of some sort of uniform thread.

Masterlock Mike will come along in due time and lock the thread anyway.  Funny how he locks the more entertaining and informative ones and then lets others go on and on and on...