WMIRS as a real time Mission Tracking resource

[Major Carrales]

So, before I go forward...what are your reactions to the title of this post?

[Eclipse]

Well, all the words are spelled correctly, which, based on recent history here, is remarkable.

I'm not sure why you chose the capitalization options you did, perhaps a better option would have been
to go with a capital "R" in resource or small "m" & "t" in "mission" and "tracking".

I also think common usage of "real time" is "real-time".

That's about all I see.

[Major Carrales]

Well, all the words are spelled correctly, which, based on recent history here, is remarkable.

I'm not sure why you chose the capitalization options you did, perhaps a better option would have been
to go with a capital "R" in resource or small "m" & "t" in "mission" and "tracking".

I also think common usage of "real time" is "real-time".

That's about all I see.

Great, a wise guy!!!  Now, what thinketh thee of the content thereof?

[FW]

Well, all the words are spelled correctly, which, based on recent history here, is remarkable.

I'm not sure why you chose the capitalization options you did, perhaps a better option would have been
to go with a capital "R" in resource or small "m" & "t" in "mission" and "tracking".

I also think common usage of "real time" is "real-time".

That's about all I see.

Great, a wise guy!!!  Now, what thinketh thee of the content thereof?

Gee, Sparky, I thought Eclipse's comments were accurate

However, as for discussion of content, WIMRS is not meant to be a "real-time" tracking resourse.  It's primary purpose is to track missions, sorties, etc. for CAP/DO and CAP/FM.
Sorties are usually input into WIMRS (sometimes days) after the fact.  
Now, WMU, is probably a better tool for real-time tracking.  I wonder if Pete Anderson is still working on the program?  My hope was for WMU and WIMRS to "talk" to each other but,....

[RiverAux]

WMIRS has some severe disadvantages as a mission resource.  It doesn't track anything doing with the number of personnel involved or manhours, doesn't track participation by individual members, and has nothing in it about the results of the mission.  It doesn't work very well either as a sort of historical resource in that you can run a report that tells you how many missions of each type were performed in a wing over a certain period of time.  For example, if I wanted a breakdown of how many SAR missions we've had, the only way I could do it is by manually counting them up. 

One interesting thing is that sometime recently they have added a statement at the initial page saying how many finds my wing has had. 

[Al Sayre]

WIMRS is really an accounting tool, not a mission managment tool.  Attempting to use it for real time mission tracking is a giant PITA.  Ask me offline sometime and I'll tell you about it. 

Sparky, since you're in Texas working the DR missions I think I know exactly where you are going with this (I was there earlier this month).

[ELTHunter]

WMIRS was better when you could see all activity nationwide.

WMIRS has several good points for access to information pre-mission, post mission, and maybe for folks that are not directly involved and need real real-time information.  During Katrina, anyone with access could see the photos that were being taken by CAP.  I understand that they probably limited access to Wing only missions, but that is a shame.

A really good real-time mission management tool is IMU (Incident Management Utility).  It can be found at the same site as WMU (Wing Management Utility), and yes, Pete is still working   on it.  It had a rev posted not long ago.  My Group did a table top activity with it a couple of weeks ago and I was really impressed.  For a small mission, each ICP staff member could actually run the whole mission from their homes and still know exactly what is happening in each area as long as the Comm person has good communications and keeps the log up to date.

I think you can down load IMU and the database and play with it yourself with a fake mission number.

[Major Carrales]

I think you can down load IMU and the database and play with it yourself with a fake mission number.

Not so, I believe one has to have some "clearance" via certain specialty tracks or ES tracks.

[IceNine]

you do.

Qualification to register for IMU downloads is based on you having a minimum ES Specialty level. You must be currently qualified in at least one of the following qualifications:

               IC1, IC2, IC3, AL1, AL2, AL3, OSC, PSC, LSC, FASC, GBD, AOBD, or CUL

[ELTHunter]

Yes, you are right.  I stand corrected.

[bosshawk]

I use WMIRS quite frequently and my CD program uses it on an almost daily basis.  It is a good place to go to see what missions are being planned, what missions are underway and what missions have been completed.  Someone mentioned that it is an accounting tool: true in part.  After a sortie is completed, anyone with the "permissions" can go in and see how many hours were flown and how much the fuel cost.  I am told that WMIRS is read every week by the Commanding General, 1st AF. 

If you are interested in knowing how many hours of which mission type your Wing has flown, the Form 18 report does that in excrusiating detail.  We use it all the time to justify our CD program.  I can tell in an instant how many hours of CD flying my program has done in any period that I want.

You are correct: WMIRS is not all things to all people.  Not sure that there is such a computer progam in the world.

[IceNine]

^ you just confirmed that is is an accounting tool, there is nothing in your previous statement to negate that.

It accounts for money, time, sorties, etc.

2. All CAP Air Force Assigned missions are now included in twice weekly briefings to the First Air Force Commander.  Please update sortie times and costs in WMIRS (https://ntc.cap.af.mil/login.htm) as soon as practical on mission closeout so these missions can be accurately reported.

[sdcapmx]

It is a decent tool for end of month report verification.  I have to consolodate all of my wings tach sheets and CAPF 99s and all pilots are required to use WMIRS for all flights.  There are some things I would like to see in WMIRS and I have been in contact with NHQ on them.  They are always willing to listen to input on the system.  It really is a good way for 1st AF to look up on their big status board to see what CAP is doing as far as USAF missions at any given time.

[RiverAux]

Only if they've got better reports than what is available to us.  For example, the mission status map is NEVER right. 

[DNall]

I don't know how other wings do it, but we don't release sorties till they're green input & green in WIMRS, not for any kind of mission.

It is a PITA. It exists ONLY to track the money - not even that, just the member reimbursement, not the sortie costs to CAP or customer or any other related cost or resource usage data. It's worthless for logistics, admin, or command & control. The only thing it does accomplish is to: 1) slow me down - make me do online work in addition to the same paperwork I've been doing to launch a sortie for 15yrs; and, 2) give NOC just enough information to try micromanaging aspects of my ops.

WMU is okay from what I hear. I've heard it has some okay capabilities, but all I've actually seen it used for is sign in. The issue is I don't have to do that stuff, and doing it doesn't really take away the work load of WIMRS or paperwork, so it's just another slow down I can avoid, and don't have to spend hundreds of hours learning.

We spent some time talking here recently about what needs to happen with WIMRS. Frankly on the ground side at least, the 109 should be abbreviated & online as the WIMRS sortie form. It should have all team mbr names/IDs, auto check quals, generate ORM, etc. Then after the fact it should credit the sortie to the member's SQTRs. As part of the debrief, I should be able to checkbox any tasks completed, as well as find details, both of which should also credit to members automatically.

If you want to figure out how to generate some legit resource tracking I'd be all for that. It's not hard to know what you have on the ground, but it's tough with volunteers to know what you have tmrw or the next day.

[ZigZag911]

My hope was for WMU and WIMRS to "talk" to each other but,....

According to my sources, this is now the case....haven't had a chance to try it out myself yet.

[MikeD]

My reactions:

1) YES, - a real-time mission tracking system would be awesome and pretty useful
2) HECK NO (cadet friendly version) - we need something like Blue Force Tracker tied to a mapping system, like FalconView or Google Earth. 

This is something I've gone and gotten on my soapbox, then gotten distracted by a shiny object and forgotten to check the thread for a couple weeks about before.   I honestly don't think we have the funding to make this happen in true real-time for aircraft, let alone for ground and UDF teams currently, at best what grid you're in for ground teams, and where +/- a grid for aircraft.  I'm envisioning a circle of uncertainty based on the last known position, course, speed, and time. 

If CAPHQ wants to get serious about this kind of a system, even for aircraft, I know the right guy at NASA to talk to...  Areas with overall good cell phone coverage and/or ARPS have a better chance of it working in the short term.

[Major Carrales]

My reactions:

1) YES, - a real-time mission tracking system would be awesome and pretty useful
2) HECK NO (cadet friendly version) - we need something like Blue Force Tracker tied to a mapping system, like FalconView or Google Earth. 

This is something I've gone and gotten on my soapbox, then gotten distracted by a shiny object and forgotten to check the thread for a couple weeks about before.   I honestly don't think we have the funding to make this happen in true real-time for aircraft, let alone for ground and UDF teams currently, at best what grid you're in for ground teams, and where +/- a grid for aircraft.  I'm envisioning a circle of uncertainty based on the last known position, course, speed, and time. 

If CAPHQ wants to get serious about this kind of a system, even for aircraft, I know the right guy at NASA to talk to...  Areas with overall good cell phone coverage and/or ARPS have a better chance of it working in the short term.

Is there a "low tech" way of using existing databases to serve as a stop gap measure.  As CAP works with USAF and other groups that want realtime info, can we expect to be using/adapting the WIMRs system to do this?

[RiverAux]

I think anything along those lines is not realistic without AF funding to purchase the necessary equipment.  If they want real-time info, they need to pony up the money to make such a system feasible.  I classify such things as "nice to have, but not necessary" as we've managed to get along without them pretty well for decades. 

[ELTHunter]

The issue is I don't have to do that stuff, and doing it doesn't really take away the work load of WIMRS or paperwork, so it's just another slow down I can avoid, and don't have to spend hundreds of hours learning.

Actually, I think it does....I have not done it personally, but from what I understand, you can upload data from IMU into WMIRS and not actually have to key stroke anything twice.  If you have an MSA enter the information from the forms into IMU in near real-time, than you can wrap up the mission paperwork very shortly after the last refueling.