Air Force PTU for PT...

[356cadet]

I've had been concerned about wearing the Air Force PTU for CAP PT . I have worn it a couple times before, but it came to my attention that I should probably find out if it is authorized, first.

Are cadets authorized to wear the Air Force PTU for squadron physical training/testing?

[IceNine]

There is no guidance at all for PT gear except that is shall not be explicit.

Wear away

[356cadet]

I thought so. Now to check AF regs to see if they authorize wearing for sport training... 

[RiverAux]

Well, the real question is whether it is considered a uniform by the Air Force.  I would think that if it is an actual uniform, then CAP members can't wear it without it being authorized by the AF and by CAP.  If it is something that any yahoo can buy and wear around town and not get thrown in jail for impersonating a military member, then you probably could wear it anytime you want for CAP PT. 

[356cadet]

Roger that.

[DC]

Freely available online...

http://www.kellac.com/xcart/home.php?cat=292&sort=orderby&sort_direction=0

[Eclipse]

Freely available online...

http://www.kellac.com/xcart/home.php?cat=292&sort=orderby&sort_direction=0

Well, so is just about every piece of every military and EMS uniform ever worn, but that doesn't necessarily mean its ok to wear it.

With that said, I don't see it as an issue, and I think you will find its very commonly worn by CAP people all over the place.

[stratoflyer]

There were always BDU's on the internet and now ABU's ACU's MARPAT's...ultimately it is the insignia that makes it a DOD uniform...the PTU don't have insignia--just logos...

[DC]

I don't know if it is relevant or not but:

Additional civilian clothing items may be added to the PT, but color consistency should be reasonably compatible to support a professional appearance.

I have to agree with stratoflyer here, there is a lot of clothing that display USAF logos.

The line between just wearing clothing and impersonating military personnel is a fine line, and I think intent factors into it. No one is going to accuse a bunch of kids playing paintball in surplus BDUs that still have tapes and rank on them of trying to impersonate, but someone that gets dressed up in a uniform and goes around proclaiming that they are or were in the military, then there is a problem. I would say a CAP Cadet wearing the Air Force PTU is just showing support, or an aspiration, but they are not trying to kid anyone into believing they are in the Air Force.

Heck, I am assumed to be in the military often enough anyways when in an authorized uniform, despite the big, bold, nearly neon blue CIVIL AIR PATROL tape... I have found nothing prohibiting it, and civilian clothing can be worn with it, so...

Tags - MIKE

[mmouw]

Our Squadron wanted a standardized PTU for PT. We looked at a few options, but when we compared the AF PTU, the cost was much less and we all look "uniform". I have the whole suit, but the cadets went with the shorts and tee shirts. The grand total was under $20.00. I think it is a great option for CAP.

[Eclipse]

How did you get AFU PTU's for under $20?  What's it include?

Most places I've seen, the shorts alone are $20+.

Got a secret source?   

[mmouw]

No, we picked up some at the shoppette in Sioux Falls SD at the guard base and we were at Offutt AFB and picked up the same. The shorts were around $11.00 and the teeshirts were $6.00 and some change. Not sure where you were if they were trying to get $20.00 for the shorts. When I was at Ellsworth this last weekend, I looked at shorts and teeshirts and the prices were the same.

[Pylon]

AAFES sells them through online, catalog, phone and MCSS sales for:

AF Trunk PT (Item M209W) - $11.25  (these are the new blue Nylon ones, not the old gray sweatsuit shorts, as shown above in thread)
AF Crewneck T-Shirt, Gray  (Item M209A) - $4.22 (with "Air Force" written across the front in an arc)
AF PT T-shirt, Gray (Item M209X) - $6.60 (with the reflective Hap Arnold logo on front left chest and across the back, as shown above in thread)

[Eclipse]

No, we picked up some at the shoppette in Sioux Falls SD at the guard base and we were at Offutt AFB and picked up the same. The shorts were around $11.00 and the teeshirts were $6.00 and some change. Not sure where you were if they were trying to get $20.00 for the shorts. When I was at Ellsworth this last weekend, I looked at shorts and teeshirts and the prices were the same.

Well, I'm in the opposite side of the coin from the Air Force equation.

My local clothing sales is a NavEx, with the closet AF store about 6 hours away (and that one is not very big), so items for CAP like BDU's, boots, etc., are a non-issue because the Navy and Marines are still wearing them, but anything than the most basic USAF insignia and parts are a no-go up here, so I'm looking at the online sources.

[DNall]

^ if you ask at the NAVEx store, they'll order AF stuff for you & ship to your address. You can call & get a catalog. Course you can call & order stuff too, but it's easier in person sometimes.

AF PTU is a uniform when worn on duty. It may be worn outside duty in whole or part. Same is true of the Army IPFU. So, yes it is a uniform, no you can't get arrested for wearing it as a civilian (only if you wear it on base & tell everyone you're a 20-star general of the AF & they better salute or start pushing), yes you can wear all or part of it as a CAP PT uniform.

[stratoflyer]

Well, in the latest AirForce Times, there will be changes made to the PTU. Nothing significant  except material and shorts length.

[jrsvf]

Here's the problem.  As CAP members we are not allowed to wear any uniform item that says US Air Force.  What some squadrons in my Group do however, is get blue shorts at walmart and use the black CAP t-shirts being offered on EBAY.  The vendor that sells them is actually a Cadet Squadron that uses these sales as fundraisers and they will discount for multiple items in the order.  Email me if you want the specific address and contact information.

[Eclipse]

There are already CAP PT uniform items available from Vanguard, but they are not half as cool as the USAF ones.
Basic dark blue shorts, standard gray t-shirt with blue lettering, and sweats.

Considering a lot of NCC teams wear them or derivatives, and they are visible at the national level, I'd say this is another of the "better things to worry about" situations.

I would love to find a supplier, though, that would silk screen the Hap Arnold Wings w/ CAP-MAJCOM shield above on the same or similar uniform in a price range that was reachable by members, especially cadets.

[DNall]

uhh, yes we all allowed. And the org is allowed to go by AF Aux if they want too. CAP has made the choice (plane decals, command patch) to not do that because of ES applications - ie, they'd like to be able to use those planes/uniforms for missions that would violate posse cummitatus if done by the AF (we're bound by that if wearing a uniform that ID's us as an AF org).

There is no such issue with PT gear.

[stratoflyer]

^I tend to agree. Is there a reg about this against it?

[DNall]

no

[MIKE]

^ Then please provide an appropriate cite that supports your claim.

[A.Member]

^ Then please provide an appropriate cite that supports your claim.

Are you asking him to prove a negative?   If it doesn't exist, how does he produce evidence?

[DNall]

The AFI states rules for the PTU. CAPM39-1 doesn't classify a PTU, just "appropriate attire." If people need to verify that by reading the exact quote, then they are welcome to spend their time skimming the reg(s). I won't be using my time for that, and I won't be quoting regs to bash people about the head with in order to prove my knowledge of them as if it helps my self-esteem. If someone else has the time to do that, then they're more than welcome.

[jrsvf]

Yes we are the Air Force Auxiliary and the argument of Aux On and Aux off can be argued until we all get 30 year pins!!!  The fact of the matter is that as the Auxiliary, we are NOT the Air Force. That is why the uniform board, which is stronhly governed by the USAF, has kep our uniforms distinctly different from the USAF.  I refer you to the Air Force blue uniform. Our shoulder boards are Gray with CAP on them, our cadet grades are distinctly different than that of the Air Force, everything on our Air Force style uniform is just different enough to NOT to be confused with active duty personnel.  If you want to wear the Air Force uniform, enlist or go to the Academy.  I am retired USAF respect the fact that the Air Force uniform is for the Air Force. The CAP uniform is for CAP.  A lot of careful consideration has been given by the USAF and if you know anything about CAP's history, you would be thankful that we are still allowed to wear the Air Force blue uniform. 
As for the regulation I refer you to Chapter 1 of the 39-1 as follows:
1-1. Policy. CAP members are authorized to wear CAP distinctive uniforms as well as
uniforms similar to the U.S. Air Force. Civil Air Patrol uses distinctive emblems, insignia, and badges to identify individuals wearing the AF-style uniforms as CAP members. Wear of the AF-style uniforms, as well as the insignia, badges, and devices worn on these uniforms are as prescribed by the Commander, CAP-USAF, with the approval of Headquarters USAF.

Again, we are wearing these uniforms with the permission of the Air Force as long as we do not represent ourselves as the Air Force.
Capt Jim Flaviani, CAP
Deputy Commander, Group 4, GAWG
USAF (Ret)

[O-Rex]

Do any regs currently prohibit it?  No.  But just because you can do something doesn't necessarily mean that you should. I can see USAF personnel bristling if they see CAP members wearing them: I would.

IMHO, out of courtesy and respect I wouldn't wear it, OR I would sew an CAP organizational patch of some sort over the USAF insignia, if it will cover it.

There is a very similar commercial PT suit out there, can't remember the website, but it is the same color as the official USAF PT uniform, with the reflective stripe straight across the jacket instead of forming a 'V.' 

Given what's currently available, gray sweats are SO 1980's.

Would be nice if Vanguard could procure and sell, but that's another can of worms altogether. . . . . .

[DC]

Do any regs currently prohibit it?  No.  But just because you can do something doesn't necessarily mean that you should. I can see USAF personnel bristling if they see CAP members wearing them: I would.

IMHO, out of courtesy and respect I wouldn't wear it, OR I would sew an CAP organizational patch of some sort over the USAF insignia, if it will cover it.

There is a very similar commercial PT suit out there, can't remember the website, but it is the same color as the official USAF PT uniform, with the reflective stripe straight across the jacket instead of forming a 'V.' 

Given what's currently available, gray sweats are SO 1980's.

Would be nice if Vanguard could procure and sell, but that's another can of worms altogether. . . . . .

I shudder to think what they would try to charge for a 'modern' PT uniform. The current one they have is $20 just for the shorts! As far as I can tell they are regular blue shorts with the CAP seal silk screened on.

[Tubacap]

and they are very uncomfortable!

[notaNCO forever]

and they are very uncomfortable!

It would make to much sense to have them be comfortable.

[jimmydeanno]

and they are very uncomfortable!

It would make to much sense to have them be comfortable.

Once you cut out the "fake underwear" that come standard (like a bathing suit) they aren't bad...

[notaNCO forever]

and they are very uncomfortable!

It would make to much sense to have them be comfortable.

Once you cut out the "fake underwear" that come standard (like a bathing suit) they aren't bad...

What idiot thought of that they don't even make bathing suits like that anymore.

[DNall]

Just make sure you buy something to wear under that, cause I don't want to be anywhere around your situps if you don't.

Yes we are the Air Force Auxiliary and the argument of Aux On and Aux off can be argued until we all get 30 year pins!!!  The fact of the matter is that as the Auxiliary, we are NOT the Air Force. That is why the uniform board, which is stronhly governed by the USAF, has kep our uniforms distinctly different from the USAF.  I refer you to the Air Force blue uniform. Our shoulder boards are Gray with CAP on them, our cadet grades are distinctly different than that of the Air Force, everything on our Air Force style uniform is just different enough to NOT to be confused with active duty personnel.  If you want to wear the Air Force uniform, enlist or go to the Academy.  I am retired USAF respect the fact that the Air Force uniform is for the Air Force. The CAP uniform is for CAP.  A lot of careful consideration has been given by the USAF and if you know anything about CAP's history, you would be thankful that we are still allowed to wear the Air Force blue uniform. 
As for the regulation I refer you to Chapter 1 of the 39-1 as follows:
1-1. Policy. CAP members are authorized to wear CAP distinctive uniforms as well as
uniforms similar to the U.S. Air Force. Civil Air Patrol uses distinctive emblems, insignia, and badges to identify individuals wearing the AF-style uniforms as CAP members. Wear of the AF-style uniforms, as well as the insignia, badges, and devices worn on these uniforms are as prescribed by the Commander, CAP-USAF, with the approval of Headquarters USAF.

Again, we are wearing these uniforms with the permission of the Air Force as long as we do not represent ourselves as the Air Force.

Jim, you're wrong. First there is no such thing as a CAP uniform board. Not normally anyway. It's just national board making policy willy nilly & tossing things back at AF in no particular priority order with 18 billion requests rather than one consolidated one. That gets approved or denied by the AETC/CC, not a uniform board, which he has on the AF side to advise him on AF policies & what the troops want. It's a freaking terrible system - one of the worst possible ways to make govt policy that could even be conceived of. My point is, if you think there's some well thought out time intensive process by the AF or leadership within CAP that got us where we are today & intentionally wants policy to be what it is now, that couldn't be further from the truth.

However, specific to the PTU. It is not an authoritative uniform. It may be freely worn by civilians. It may be worn by mil or civilians in pieces & parts, on duty or off, for PT or not. It is ONLY considered a uniform when directed to wear by command in place of a uniform (for PT, medical processing, etc). If not directed to wear, it is not a uniform. In no way is it representing oneself as being in the AF, nor would it in any way be a problem or illegal unless you run up to the gate of a base & tell them you're an AF officer (when you're not) but forgot your ID. They'll put you in jail for that, but it won't be because of what you're wearing.