What do you think of possible CAP budget cuts by DoD?

[groundpounder]

It seems that the Wing Administrator positions are not filled in many Wings if I am reading this thread correctly. As I said before, the key is to stop this type of "payroll creep" and look at the reasons that we seem to need a paid person at every wing in the first place.

Think about it, we have 122 paid people at NHQ and the Board approved the hiring of another 50 (yes some are part time). Assume for arguments sake that they all are part time, thats a 20% increase in head count at least. How many companies would make a call like that?

Take for example promotions; we start at the lowest level and pass paperwork all the way up to National so a paid person can key in the very information that was typed in by the squadron commander back at his unit. How about letting the CC type it in via the interenet and have it show up on a screen at whatever level is necessary to approve it. Once approved, it updates to the NHQ system and bingo, spits out a request for a new ID card. This could be applied to many of the forms that we currently pass from volunteer to volunteer to paid person creating delays, cost and frustration. It's not like a mistake is going to cause a huge overpayment to the member on payday so the internal controls do not need to be as formal as would be necessary for a paid persons promotion paperwork.

There is so much duplication of effort in CAP that we create our own bottlenecks. Imagine if there were one less piece of paper per year going to NHQ for each member in the organization, that would be over 50,000 less items processed, or 190 less letters to open per day. Thats real $$.

Membership renewals - set it up so a member can provide a credit card and check a box on the screen that says "automatically renew until notified otherwise", thats perhaps 50,000 less mailings per year at what, a buck per?? Don't like that idea, send me an email when it is time to renew, if I don't withing a reasonable period of time, then send the letter.

My point is that just because we are a not for profit does not mean that we have to make sure that we spend every dime foolishly.

[BlueLakes1]

Take for example promotions; we start at the lowest level and pass paperwork all the way up to National so a paid person can key in the very information that was typed in by the squadron commander back at his unit. How about letting the CC type it in via the interenet and have it show up on a screen at whatever level is necessary to approve it. Once approved, it updates to the NHQ system and bingo, spits out a request for a new ID card. This could be applied to many of the forms that we currently pass from volunteer to volunteer to paid person creating delays, cost and frustration. It's not like a mistake is going to cause a huge overpayment to the member on payday so the internal controls do not need to be as formal as would be necessary for a paid persons promotion paperwork.

Don't know if you knew this, but there's already a way to process duty performance promotions this way. Unit personnel officers can enter the info, and it will go to the proper commander(s) for approval and post automatically, with no additional input from NHQ. I really don't see other promotions going this way, since they all require some other documentation to verify the proper credentials for promotion (military ID card or DD214, pilot certificate, medical or law license, etc.), but certainly if all duty performance ones are handled this way, we're cutting down NHQ's workload.

Since you mentioned cost of mailings (although I didn't quote it), we could cut down on mailings by going strictly to the CAPWATCH available PDR and online entry/approval of specialty track ratings. NHQ provides units with computers and earthlink access, why send something in the mail when you can get it online? Also, my unit has been using the new online track update with great success, once again as soon as the unit CC approves the rating online it shows up in the member's e-services profile without additional input from an NHQ staffer.

Membership renewals - set it up so a member can provide a credit card and check a box on the screen that says "automatically renew until notified otherwise", thats perhaps 50,000 less mailings per year at what, a buck per?? Don't like that idea, send me an email when it is time to renew, if I don't withing a reasonable period of time, then send the letter.

That's available too, sort of. I get an emailed renewal notice and pay online, although it doesn't hold your card info permanently. Multi year renewal is optional, too. But i never get a paper letter mailed for my renewal notices, just the email.

While we're on cost cutting measures, does anyone know the cost difference between production of CAP News and the Volunteer? Certainly the new magazine costs more to produce, perhaps a return to the old way would be good for awhile to save some money.

[iowacap]

I agree we could cut down on costs by using what can be obtained by members via E-services. I like the new format for cap volunteer but if they are looking at being cost effective the old style of cap news would be the best but really that is not up to us and our leaders at national will do what they think is best but I think they should ask for opinions from each wing on how to cut costs that way they could get a picture of what each wing needs and cuz costs without cutting something one may need to complete a mission.

[Pylon]

It seems that the Wing Administrator positions are not filled in many Wings if I am reading this thread correctly. As I said before, the key is to stop this type of "payroll creep" and look at the reasons that we seem to need a paid person at every wing in the first place.

Think about it, we have 122 paid people at NHQ and the Board approved the hiring of another 50 (yes some are part time). Assume for arguments sake that they all are part time, thats a 20% increase in head count at least. How many companies would make a call like that?

Take for example promotions; we start at the lowest level and pass paperwork all the way up to National so a paid person can key in the very information that was typed in by the squadron commander back at his unit. How about letting the CC type it in via the interenet and have it show up on a screen at whatever level is necessary to approve it. Once approved, it updates to the NHQ system and bingo, spits out a request for a new ID card. This could be applied to many of the forms that we currently pass from volunteer to volunteer to paid person creating delays, cost and frustration. It's not like a mistake is going to cause a huge overpayment to the member on payday so the internal controls do not need to be as formal as would be necessary for a paid persons promotion paperwork.

There is so much duplication of effort in CAP that we create our own bottlenecks. Imagine if there were one less piece of paper per year going to NHQ for each member in the organization, that would be over 50,000 less items processed, or 190 less letters to open per day. Thats real $$.

Membership renewals - set it up so a member can provide a credit card and check a box on the screen that says "automatically renew until notified otherwise", thats perhaps 50,000 less mailings per year at what, a buck per?? Don't like that idea, send me an email when it is time to renew, if I don't withing a reasonable period of time, then send the letter.

My point is that just because we are a not for profit does not mean that we have to make sure that we spend every dime foolishly.

I agree with this very much so.  I think that these are the types of things that such a budgetary period will encourage us to do.  We need to step back and look at our processess, our methods, our spending habits, and find out what really is and isn't necessary.  Hopefully, the National leadership will take this introspective look at CAP and make the necessary changes so that, moving forward, when things are not so tight, we will eventually have more money for missions because we are spending it more wisely.

I like the idea of reducing membership mailings by offering e-reminders and perpetual renewals.  Many credit card companies and banks use these services to reduce the number of printing and mailings they must do, and it works well for them.  I, for one, would sign up for automatic renewals -- just keep charging my Amex for membership until I say so, or until they kick me out.   

I don't see the ID card as that much of an expense, if the costs charged to the members cover the expense of the program.  I believe that this was in the design from the beginning.  The card is optional and the cost of production and handling will be born by those who choose to have one.

I also agree that more paperwork can be made electronic, and filter it's way up the chain for approval.  While duty performance promotions, specialty track assignments, and duty positions are all now available on e-services, more can still be added.  Cadet progression would be a huge piece to add, and would be an excellent way to reduce loads of paperwork.

NHQ should also encourage more use of these e-services modules and slowly phase out paper submission of things like duty performance promotions, specialty track updates, Form 8 orders, etc.  Since every unit gets an internet access account with their laptop, I don't see any reason why these submissions could not be made at least once a month by every unit.  Surely, every unit has someone with access to a phone jack once a month.

This is a great time to start implementing these easier processess so that everyone wins and CAP saves funding.  This is also a great time for CAP to really emphasize the mission of the new CAP Foundation and to get that project underway.  We'll weather this, and we'll demonstrate to the USAF and the rest of the U.S. that we are both efficient and mission capable.

[fyrfitrmedic]

 Some wings get quite a bit of money from their home states; it's the question of how the money is utilized that's important in those cases.

[NIN]

Lt. Col. Siegrist,

I am confused. Unless your state has been paying an administrator out of its own budget, or she is a volunteer, I don't understand how she has been around for years.

As I understand it, the paid administrator program has only been in place for about a year, and many states have not yet even hired one.

Some wings have had administrators for 10 or more years. My wing is one.

[Eclipse]

No doubt, but are they paid out of your local budget or as GS employees?

My understanding was that these new slots are GS civil service situations with benefits, budgeted out of NHQ.

[rebowman]

I am full-time in the Air National Guard -- the military has been having budget issues every year now for several years.  This year is only different because it has gotten worse for two reasons:  All of our (the US) money is going to fund Hurricane Relief Efforts and to fund the war in Iraq. My unit has suffered greatly from the FY06 budget cuts -- but we are slowly getting the help that we need.  We have been real happy with every little bit of help that we get.  My commander, myself, and the rest of my squadron are just happy to still be where we are today....

My real point here is that budget cuts have happened and as I see it it is something that is going to plague the military ( and CAP) for awhile.  We need to be happy with what we have.  The FY07 budget is far from being finalized... if CAP does take a hit by getting cuts  we can carry on and perform our mission just like we have since 1941.

DOD and Congress are working very hard to ensure that the money is spent where it needs to be. 

As a member of CAP & the Air National Guard I am not favoring any one side... I am just trying to show both sides.

[SarDragon]

No doubt, but are they paid out of your local budget or as GS employees?

My understanding was that these new slots are GS civil service situations with benefits, budgeted out of NHQ.

CAWG has had an administrator for some time, too. She was the single paid employee of the wing.

[Mac]

Here in ND we have had a "Wing Administrator" aka Wing Admins Officer for years who was paid by the state as a full time position. He is in the process of getting ready to retire and his job has been listed with the state as an opening. One of the requirement's of the job is they must be able to get a CAP membersip.

We also just got our part time Wing administrator who is paid by national.

[flyguy06]

I dont see the problem with having Wing administrators. You need someone to do the day to day work of the Wing. You can depend on volunteers 100% of the time. They have lives too and have to feed their families. In the National Guard, we have a full time staff at each armory.

Also when talking about automation, again, everyone in CAP is not computer savy. My commander doesnt know how to use the ineternet soguess what , when something needs approved on MIMS, it takes us forever to get it  done. I hate MIMS.

[TankerT]

Actually, our wing has had a Wing Administrator for years.

Having one is indespensable for us.  He/she (been different people over the last 10 years) does so much for us.  I can't imagine not having one, as it would be a huge blow for us.

I think that NHQ should look at trimming some of the fat upstairs, as well as some of the other expendatures.  (Such as funds for SLS, CLC, RSC that could be offset by a small increase in fees.)  Cut a few Aircraft.  (Heck, we all know that there are some units that just are flying clubs, and not operationally capable.

I'm hesitant to trim IACE... but... that's another story.

O-Flights.  Well... what they SHOULD do is restructure how they pay for these.  It's hard for a unit to NOT make money on the current rates.  Reducing the payment rates on those would allow for more funded flights.

[Earhart1971]

The Money loss will happen at National HQ, and they say a 30% staff cut will make up the loss.

The Staff cut is hard on people at National, but the Squadron Level might not even notice.

CAP Squadrons run on total Volunteer Power, now what I might suggest to National HQ, is they start a Senior Squadron up there, and get some retired Air Force Types to fill the Admin Gap.

[BlackKnight]

...

[Major_Chuck]

Interesting topic.  It ties into the whole CAP Corporation vs USAF Auxiliary discussion that rears its head every now and then.

I think now is the time for CAP as a whole to begin a more aggressive lobbying campaign from the states for additional funding.  For far too long we've just putzed along waiting for the AF to drop us some coins.    Now as it has been correctly pointed out monies are being diverted elsewhere.

Corporate CAP can ask for monies from private corporations and local/state governments a whole lot easier that AF Auxiliary CAP can.

There are revenue sources out there in the form of grants and the such.  You just need to have some good grant writers on board that can tap into them.

[Earhart1971]

I never understood why the funding level for CAP is so low on the Air Force Budget, until I went to CAP Staff College at Maxwell AFB, the Air Force has its alternative to CAP its called AFJROTC.

The AFJROTC HQ is funded ten times the total CAP Budget.

CAP with all its missions gets 24 million vs the 200 million to AFJROTC per FY Year.

AFJROTC,  uses the Leadership Lab, and other books developed originally for the CAP Cadet Program, they are swimming in funding and paid employees all the way down to individual unit level.

The only function of AFJROTC is the Cadet Program Mission, and nothing else, the don't do Search and Rescue, or Homeland Security.


AFROTC has paid professionals working all down the chain of command to(High School Unit Level).

Now this is an expample of where Civil Air Patrol could be with the appropriate funding from the Air Force.

Plus, CAP does save the Air Force money doing  Search and Rescue, how much savings.... well you could multiply the hours we fly.... with the least expensive Air Force alternative, paid crew and C-130 aircraft cost, times the hours flown.

Would that come up to 200 million annual savings?

[Eclipse]

I never understood why the funding level for CAP is so low on the Air Force Budget, until I went to CAP Staff College at Maxwell AFB, the Air Force has its alternative to CAP its called AFJROTC.

The AFJROTC HQ is funded ten times the total CAP Budget.

CAP with all its missions gets 24 million vs the 200 million to AFJROTC per FY Year.

AFJROTC,  uses the Leadership Lab, and other books developed originally for the CAP Cadet Program, they are swimming in funding and paid employees all the way down to individual unit level.

The only function of AFJROTC is the Cadet Program Mission, and nothing else, the don't do Search and Rescue, or Homeland Security.


AFROTC has paid professionals working all down the chain of command to(High School Unit Level).

Now this is an expample of where Civil Air Patrol could be with the appropriate funding from the Air Force.

Plus, CAP does save the Air Force money doing  Search and Rescue, how much savings.... well you could multiply the hours we fly.... with the least expensive Air Force alternative, paid crew and C-130 aircraft cost, times the hours flown.

Would that come up to 200 million annual savings?

Make no mistake, AFJROTC is a recruiting mechanism for the USAF (and military in general), and as such it is funded that way.

[SKYKING607]

G'day to everyone...

At a Nat'l Conf in Las Vegas twenty years ago, we kicked the idea of a "life membership" just like the NRA has.  Such membership would bring the organization some needed O & E revenue.

Just an idea from my memory buds!

[JAFO78]

I maybe mistaken, and I sure I can be corrected. I thought I saw on CNN that the National Guard was getting some money restored. I know many people are overseas in the war, but If they can get money back can we?

or are we so low down the chain that we have to fight the rest of the bottom feeders for whats left?

[Major_Chuck]

Hate to say it but welcome to the bottom feeders.

In all fairness to the Guard, they are on the actual combat frontlines in Iraq and Afghanistan and if they were to sustain their operations off of just State Budgets then they would be grossly underfunded.

We are a non-combat entity.  Yes we perform a very small percentage of real AF directed HLS missions but truth be told we are at the lower end of the financial priority level.  As it should be.  I would hate that some one in a combat zone went without something because we fought to have monies diverted away.

I maybe mistaken, and I sure I can be corrected. I thought I saw on CNN that the National Guard was getting some money restored. I know many people are overseas in the war, but If they can get money back can we?

or are we so low down the chain that we have to fight the rest of the bottom feeders for whats left?