New Staff/ Director Requirements for LEVEL 4/5

[mikeylikey]

Here is the July 30 ICL referencing the classes, courses and schools we can use to fulfill the Staff/ Director requirement for our Professional Development.

http://level2.cap.gov/documents/2008_07_30_resident_courses.pdf

Interesting that Encampment is now an eligible activity!  So you can be a TAC at Encampment and get "Staff Credit" for level 4 and 5.  I don't agree with that.................

New Staff/ Director Requirements for LEVEL 4/5

[lordmonar]

interesting that Encampment is now an eligible activity!  So you can be a TAC at Encampment and get "Staff Credit" for level 4 and 5.  I don't agree with that.

What.....teaching and leading for a whole week does not equal teaching for a two days (and only just part of those days)?

They are just more or less block fillers anyway....so why get our shorts in a bind?

[IceNine]

TAC's are the most valuable, and hardest working part of an encampment team.  While it may be true that the level of mental gymnastics is not the same as directing a course, it can be said that the amount of critical thinking involved well surpasses that of a director of a course.

The benefit of directing SLS/CLC is that it is a box set curriculum.  There is truely little that can go wrong.

Which is the exact opposite of encampment

[mikeylikey]

^ OK.  Then lets change TAC Officer to Cook.  Should the member who volunteers to cook for the Encampment get staff credit, the same as a person who runs an SLS/CLC.  I don't see the need to add more activities to the "Staff CLC/SLS" requirement.   

[IceNine]

I believe the the director requirements should be more stringent, not the staff requirements.

Staffing for SLS/CLC are the people that wind up doing exactly the things you are talking about.  Arranging for food, equipment, hotels, check-in, etc.

But even that activity is so limited in actual amount of time required that it is pointless.

The Direct, or staff higher level course should require more than chief cook and bottle washer, or bus driver participation at any activity.

If we are talking about encampment specifically I would say that anyone participating for the duration of the encampment in any track should be given credit as "staff for level 4 (transport, communicator, etc)

However, you should be one of a list of officers that is engaged in management level decisions for it to count as director.

CC,DC,CoC, XO, comm director, Admin those types of things. 

But remember if you want this to be enacted all it takes is your wing commander saying he won't sign it unless it meets these quals. This letter is very clear that whether or not a course qualifies is at their discretion, so one could argue that they could also enact participation requirements

[lordmonar]

Mikey....did you actually read the letter?

It specifically said that the approving authority has the option to approve the substitution.....so the encampment cook does not (if I were wing king) SLS staff credit.

If you actually read the information....instad of just spouting off at the mouth...we would have a lot more informative discussions here.

[mikeylikey]

If you actually read the information....instead of just spouting off at the mouth...we would have a lot more informative discussions here.

I don't hate you, even though it is apparent you HATE ME

^ I corrected your spelling above.  If you are going to bash someone, at least get the spelling right!!  If you don't it only looks like you couldn't wait to get in your insult quick enough. 

You sure put me in my place......   

[Pylon]

*Ahem*  Topic.  Professionalism.

[mikeylikey]

^Sorry.  I can see awarding Director credit for some of the courses/ activities listed if in fact you were the Director (like Encampment Commander).  I don't think everyone on staff should get staff credit just for showing up. 

[captrncap]

However, you should be one of a list of officers that is engaged in management level decisions for it to count as director.

CC,DC,CoC, XO, comm director, Admin those types of things. 

I can only see the CC, DC, CoC and XO meeting this requirement because after all they are the only positions that requires much more then a weeks' commitment to the activity.

Each of those positions tend to have many hours of preparation before the encampment like conference calls to get the Cadet Commander, Cadet Deputy Commander, etc, planning the workshops before the encampment, review scheduling, contacts with the base, etc.

The other mentor positions are valuable but are not at the level of "Director" much like a staff position at a SLS/UCC/CLC that must read their presentation before teaching it but have very little to do with the actual running of the activity.

[Pylon]

I can tell you that I put in a lot more work at encampment as the Public Affairs mentor than when I taught a session or two at SLS.   I can see how that should definitely qualify as staff credit.

As for director credit, I agree that an encampment command slot would be an appropriate equivalent - especially as far as experience with planning, preparation, and exercising leadership and providing vision to an activity.  CC, CD, XO, Commandant.

[IceNine]

You can go ahead and add, the admin folks, chief tac, Comm's director, any of the various deputies to the commandant, medical officer, chaplain,

All of these folks do a double buttload more than an instructor at sls/clc, and are proving to do more than I am doing as the director of SLS/CLC.

I guess I'll remake my point. Directing and more importantly instructing a predeveloped curriculum like sls/clc, tlc, etc are infinitely easier and require almost no thinking than are an encampment which involves a couple hundred people, months of planning, and and simply the shell of a curriculum, there are no predesignated course outlines for use at encampment

[RiverAux]

I've probably taught a half dozen sections in SLS/CLC/UCC courses and quite frankly didn't think any of them were anything special such that they would be part of a the professional development program.  On the other hand, I'm probably one of the 2-3% of members of my wing who have taught anything at those courses since I've been in it, so maybe it is worth some credit. 

[DNall]

There is something to be said for bearing the responsibility as the one person ultimately in charge of an activity. That's not the case for a lot of the people mentioned on encampment sr (meaning upper) staff. I know they work a whole ton harder than an SLS/CLC director, but they aren't in charge. Being this is a leader/manager development process, I don't think effort is necessarily the key.

[IceNine]

Aren't in charge of what?

I can't argue that the commander has ultimate go no go responsibility, however there is a very legitimate arguement that the commander has visibility into everything but makes only decisions impacting the entire encampment.

I was the deputy commandant this year at encampment, but I was being groomed to step up so I did a lot of the things the commandant would normally do as well.  That being said the commander asked for an update into what we were doing with the cadets but unless it was way off left base left me to do my job.  So I was in charge of the cadets.

The XO worked with the cadet support staff and cadet XO, was in charge of meals, transportation, and a whole list of other things.

There is no way you can argue especially at an activity that requires minimum 40 hours of curriculum is being run by 1 person.  Its just not that way. 

[DNall]

I just read a story the other day about a 70mil fire on an aircraft carrier en route to San Diego that was caused by an unknown sailor smoking in an unauthorized area, caught some oil on fire & jacked up a bunch of electronics/etc. The Captain of the ship wasn't there. He doesn't make decisions or have any direct supervisory capacity over anything related to that situation. The people that do are about 10 echelons below him, and I doubt seriously he had visibility on anything related to the problems that led to the situation. Yet, that commander and his XO were relieved for cause & their careers/reputations are over for good.

A commander has responsibility for all the unit/activity does or fails to do, and no part of that can be delegated. It's not really about making decisions or running programs. That's tactical. Managing the decision makers is strategic. Being the one person ultimately responsible to the Wg/CC for the activity is not something that can be substituted. I'm a bit less concerned with the scale on which they do that.

We're talking about the top end of our professional development program. This isn't for Capts or even Majors. It's not even required to make LtCol. For people that want to reach out to that stage of the program, I really don't think a CC/director position on one of these items just one time at any point in their career is too much to ask.

[lordmonar]

Yes...but being on staff of an SLS or CLC does not mean you are in charge of much of anything.

Both my SLS and CLC course had about 8 different instructors and two other SM who helped out with adminstration....and there were only about 15 students. 

So just about any job at encampment automatically has more responsibility and work involved just by the nature that it is a 7 day long job.  Even if it is the 2nd Assitant to the Cheif TAC officer.    I would respect that more as a learning experince and developing leaders than just another instructor at the SLS.

[CadetProgramGuy]

Is this letter to be retrospective as well, if so I have all the reqirements done. 


2 staff positions at seperate emcampments, director of TLC, staff for SLS and CLC, ect....

[Fifinella]

^^The reg isn't very specific, but many requirements can be accomplished at any time in your career, unless specifically stated otherwise.  Of course, I'm not authorized to make that call.

The reg also doesn't specify how many hours constitutes "staffing".

[Dad2-4]

Is this letter to be retrospective as well, if so I have all the reqirements done. 
2 staff positions at seperate emcampments...

Same here. If it's retroactive, I'm good to go if approved by my wing cc.