National Board Agenda

[Short Field]

^^^ Sounds too much like a search for Bling.  I would much rather see the "volunteers" volunteer their time to CAP - not another organization.   

The discount membership rate might have some merit but it is being proposed based on anecdotal information and lacks any numbers to back it up.  It also just affects a very small group of people.

[Eclipse]

What about Item #11: Clarification of Special Appointment Promotion Authority

I have read it 4 times now and it clarifies nothing to me...

Are they recommending that Group CC's can promote unit CC's to Captain (after 1 year) or not?

[Major Carrales]

^^^ Sounds too much like a search for Bling.  I would much rather see the "volunteers" volunteer their time to CAP - not another organization.   

The discount membership rate might have some merit but it is being proposed based on anecdotal information and lacks any numbers to back it up.  It also just affects a very small group of people.

With all do respect, we are trying to make allowances for our military deployed and cadets who are trying to maintain a connection to CAP whilr they are away at school; they are trying to make some allowance for this small group.  I see no problem with it.  In fact, I think this will actually be helpful in retaining numbers...we lose good people when they have to leave CAP for college.  I have a sailor deployed to the theater right now.

I say go for it.

[Eclipse]

Sounds ok to me - need not be anymore complicated than a check-box that a Unit CC can use the says "deployed" and pauses memebership renewals actions, etc.

[Short Field]

I have no issue with extending the membership of deployed members and didn't address it.  It is such a good idea that approval should be a non-issue.

On the dues issue, we are only talking $10.  Who came up with that number and why do they think it will make a difference?  Where is the discount made (National, Region, Wing or all three) and wouldn't the same rationale apply to any member under 25 years old?    I personally don't care - but I really don't believe $10 would make a difference.  That is a bit over two gallons of gas!  Now, if they were serious, they would cut the dues in half.  That might have an impact.

[Short Field]

Now the other issue....  I really don't see the rationale of a volunteer organization rewarding their members for devoting time to another volunteer organization.   

[jb3]

I think that we're missing the point and chasing after non-issues. For instance members who deploy with the military. I have one of those jobs that deploys me with short notice for extended periods so I simply renewed my membership for three years instead of only one. Problem solved. Try to give active duty guys a little credit. We also seem to have tunnel vision with NCO promotions. What about when I was a CAP major while still only an Army lieutenant. We promote officers so we can promote NCOs. It seems strange yes, but our grade is not equal to the military and it is not supposed to be. It's like police chiefs who wear four stars, that's the rank for their organization. And the volunteer ribbon in my opinion should remain for cadets. Actually it should never have been created because I'd rather have members giving their time to CAP rather than other groups. Our country needs the talents and dedication that CAP members offer more now than any time in the past couple decades and we are too busy trying to fill our uniforms with awards and finding ways to make our members happy. We should focus on what our organization is even for. Trust me, if you give your members meaningful missions they will continue to serve, even more so than promotions and ribbons.

[Eclipse]

I think that we're missing the point and chasing after non-issues. For instance members who deploy with the military. I have one of those jobs that deploys me with short notice for extended periods so I simply renewed my membership for three years instead of only one. Problem solved. Try to give active duty guys a little credit. We also seem to have tunnel vision with NCO promotions. What about when I was a CAP major while still only an Army lieutenant. We promote officers so we can promote NCOs.

We can't promote members without objective criteria for promotion, which does exist for our Officer grades.

To do that requires we create an entire NCO program.

To create an NCO program requires valid duty separation for those who would be considered "enlisted", which in turn should equate greater respect and authority to those who would be considered "officers".

None of it is necessary or workable in CAP.

Suggesting we structure the Senor program like the cadet program where you start with stripes and work to bars is fine, I suppose, but negates the notion that NCO's have some special place in CAP.  Just as in the cadet program the various grades simply become a time-stamp to progression.

And btw, since we are all "appointed" to our grade, technically we are all "NCO's".

[dwb]

And btw, since we are all "appointed" to our grade, technically we are all "NCO's".

There are many contexts for the word "officer" that don't involve commissions.  Do you call the CEO of your company an NCO?

[mikeylikey]

And btw, since we are all "appointed" to our grade, technically we are all "NCO's".

Ummm...?

The Commission on my wall says "I do appoint him....blah blah blah".  I was appointed an Officer, took the oath of office for such appointment.  

Enlisted members are promoted, not appointed.  No matter what the various service NCO creeds say, no NCO is appointed to any office.  

[billford1]

Strange how there's nothing in the NB meeting agenda about changes to 39-1 or uniform changes. There's usually something introduced to make the volume of 39-1 bigger.

[mikeylikey]

^ That will be under "New Business".

[Eclipse]

And btw, since we are all "appointed" to our grade, technically we are all "NCO's".

Ummm...?

The Commission on my wall says "I do appoint him....blah blah blah".  I was appointed an Officer, took the oath of office for such appointment. 

Enlisted members are promoted, not appointed.  No matter what the various service NCO creeds say, no NCO is appointed to any office. 

What I meant was, we are all officers without a commission, ergo, "non-commissioned-officers".

But to your actual salient statement,  in CAP, members with stripes instead of bars would be "non-appointed-officers", or NAO's.

[mikeylikey]

So should the proposal have been FREE membership for the first year for Cadets transitioning to Senior Membership (to include Flight Officers)??

So I take it no one really likes the idea of a volunteer achievement ribbon for Senior Members?  How about letting Seniors who earned the Cadet version keep it as Senior Members??  We can do it for other ribbons, maybe that would have been a better way to go.....

[Capt Rivera]

I can't speak for every unit.... but I know many units volunteer in their cities and counties doing things like highway cleanups, park cleanups, tree planting etc....

From what I've been told both directly and indirectly, the cadets who do these things and the officers who supervise them, enjoy it. (I enjoy it as well)

Most young people need volunteer hours (diverse hours) to help get into the schools they are applying to.

Most squadrons can use the free publicity they sometimes get because they volunteer in their local community.

The ribbon is a good idea- it states your volunteering outside of our normal 3 missions.

So for all of you worried that people will spend less time with CAP because they are volunteering with another group to earn a CAP ribbon... Don't. Find opportunities that your squadron can do, and take advantage of how it brings your members closer together, gives you free press and the opportunity to be in the public eye, etc,etc....

[SarDragon]

And btw, since we are all "appointed" to our grade, technically we are all "NCO's".

Ummm...?

The Commission on my wall says "I do appoint him....blah blah blah".  I was appointed an Officer, took the oath of office for such appointment. 

Enlisted members are promoted, not appointed.  No matter what the various service NCO creeds say, no NCO is appointed to any office. 

Au contraire. Petty Officers and Chief Petty Officers in the United States Navy are appointed. I have a handful of certificates, for both my wife and myself, documenting seven such appointments, over a period of 21 years.

[Cecil DP]

And btw, since we are all "appointed" to our grade, technically we are all "NCO's".

Ummm...?

The Commission on my wall says "I do appoint him....blah blah blah".  I was appointed an Officer, took the oath of office for such appointment. 

Enlisted members are promoted, not appointed.  No matter what the various service NCO creeds say, no NCO is appointed to any office. 

Au contraire. Petty Officers and Chief Petty Officers in the United States Navy are appointed. I have a handful of certificates, for both my wife and myself, documenting seven such appointments, over a period of 21 years.

Ditto the USMC all certificates say " appointed to the grade of"

[mikeylikey]

^ Go talk to your local JAG.  He or she can clear it all up for you.  It is nice that your certificate may say appointed, but in legality you are not.   

[RiverAux]

Seemed to be an unusually high number of disagreements within the various groups allowed to comment on agenda items. 

Unsurprising that they didn't actually post the agenda in the eservices section devoted to NB/BoG/NEC agendas and minutes where most people would logically look for it.

[IceNine]

^ when have they done that on an expedient or consistent basis?

They normally don't post the agenda it usually leaks and get's passed around.  Just like the Minutes leak.  I am surprised that they actually posted publically at all this time

Last BoG minutes are from Dec 07 no agenda even from the june meeting
Still no minutes from the May NEC meeting