What would cadets like to seen done at encampment ?

[NDCS]

I am trying to find out what training cadets would like to see at a basic encampment. Also what things that did not work. 

[SarDragon]

If you have not yet perused the Encampment section of CAPR 52-16, I recommend that before going any farther. Given the specific information that must be covered, class content and methodology is flexible but directed.

[NDCS]

I trying to get new ideas for activities at encampment. As a senior member who attend 7 encampments and 3 Region cadet leadership schools,  What other activities that cadet might like to see at encampment. My core belief that cadets should leave encampment with more leadership skills then they had before they arrived at encampment.

[footballrun21]

I don't know about what was done at your encampments, but at mine, we did the Army's Leadership course as well as their obstacle course.  Both were very fun and instilled trust in eachother.  It also let us know what eachothers strengths and weaknesses were.  We also could see who was more of a leader.  I would reccommend doing more of that.

[MIKE]

What would I like to see done at encampment?  I'd like to have cadets go to encampment and learn to do things correctly to established standards.  I do not want to have cadets go to encampment and then have to unlearn all the bad habits or incorrect information they picked up on their week of fun and adventure once they get back to the squadron.

Get that done, and accomplish the required curriculum to spec and then you can have your fun... Preferably these activities serve to reinforce, or better still meet one (or more) of the content requirements established.

[Eclipse]

If I'm catching Mike's point correctly, I have to agree.

Anything which qualifies as a basic encampment, and therefore as the participation for a Mitchell, has a very strict curriculm which must be followed for the respective state's LO to ultimately sign off.

A basic encampment has 40 hours of requirments which must be completed.  Finding the time to complete just these classes, let alone the fun stuff is a time management excercise to say the least.

As Mike said, our cadets nationwide would be well served if CC's and Commandants concentrated on basic skills like uniform wear(*sigh*, a local CC sent his cadets to my encampment last year w/o their hats "you won't need them there" *sigh*), drill, and courtesies for the Basics, and left the "fun stuff" for the band camps like Flight Encampments and NESA.  (That's a good-natured dig as some of my best CAP friends run Johnson and are Inst. at NESA)

One of the things I fight every year is the outcry for more "fun" stuff to do, mainly by 2nd-year attendees who think they have it knocked because they showed up once.
What they don't understand is that basic encampments should be a leadership / growth experience where they repeat the same things a number of times in an attempt to actually get things right (and move up the food chain).

What is funny is that my Senior staff has been basically the same for the last 4 years, and we keep saying things like "didn't we cover this last year?".  Unfortunately, our cadet staff big-4 has usually gone their seperate ways after each year and we lose all that knowledge and experience.

I'll grant you this, NDCS, you'd got more fortitude than me with 10 under your belt.  This'll be my 5th year, as CC the last 3, and I'm about burnt.

[MIKE]

I want to stop hearing: "But sir, we learned it this way at encampment." ...And have that information be wrong... Usually happens with drill etc.

If encampment is perpetuating the many myths and bad habits associated with the program, it is not helping.  If anything encampment should be a vehicle to standardize the cadet program throughout the nation.  Lets use it to end the many years of tradition unimpeded by progress so prevalent in this organization... Not be one of the key causes of it.

[capchiro]

Well, a long time ago in another galaxie, I was a cadet, so I am going to put in my two cents worth.  I think there need to be more flying and more Air Force orientation stuff.  When I was a cadet, we were transported to Chanute AFB and back in a Guard C-119.  While at encampment, we were taken up in a C-47 and we each got about 10 minutes at the wheel.  We spent some time on the flight line and in the control tower.  We spent some time with some mechanics as they tested a jet engine (running) on an engine stand.  We learned about the Air Force and the opportunities there.  We got to fly in Air Force equipment.  I think we also went to the Link simulator and got to fly that beast for about 10 minutes.  We went to the pressure chamber.  We felt like we were Air Force personnel and we loved it and we were proud of our uniforms.  Wehad more Air Force involvment and I don't know why we have gotten away from that.  Why not have more encampments on Air Bases and get the Air Force involved?  The base commanders love the attention and public relations aspect of it.  Just My Humble Opinion, as usual.       

[BillB]

If you flew in a C-119 and C-47, you are talking about a time frame of 20+ years ago. Since then the Air Force went to all jet aircraft and the number of cargo aircraft available was been drastically reduced. So airlift of cadets to encampments is very limited. Also a lot of USAF bases have closed, limiting the number of locations available. In most cases the bases are full and no quarters are available for CAP. Many states have NO Air Force bases left.
In Florida, Homestead, McCoy have closed, Tyndall has the barracks, but during summer months AFROTC uses them. Eglin has no space available, the same with MacDill. So Florida Wing has to use the Florida Army National Guard facility at Camp Blanding. I'm sure the Air Force would love to have CAP for encampments to learn about Air Force life, but the factilities are no longer available.

[NDCS]

We are flying blind  Back to original questions what type of leadership classes would cadets like at encampment? Also what leadership classes that did not work?
Here are some examples of leadership classes I think that should be taught:
1. Command Voice
2. Role of element leader ( Most cadets think a element leader is just be the first person in the element)
3. Leadership Problems (what Type)
4. Role of C/NCO C/Officer
5. How to set up class for training
If you can see I am trying to see what leadership class that would help cadets at their units.

[capchiro]

Your original question did not limit the topic to leadership training.  That being the question, I think drill and ceremony should be stressed with some emphasis upon giving commands on the right foot (or left as the case may be) and command voice.  Many cadets attending basic encampment will be NCO's prior to going to another encampment and need to learn some of the NCO/leadership training at a basic encampment.  This should help standardize D&C and NCO expectations.  It is hard for a new, or small unit to train cadet NCO's and Officers if they don't already have some in the squadron. JMHO.     

[footballrun21]

Your original question did not limit the topic to leadership training.  That being the question, I think drill and ceremony should be stressed with some emphasis upon giving commands on the right foot (or left as the case may be) and command voice.  Many cadets attending basic encampment will be NCO's prior to going to another encampment and need to learn some of the NCO/leadership training at a basic encampment.  This should help standardize D&C and NCO expectations.  It is hard for a new, or small unit to train cadet NCO's and Officers if they don't already have some in the squadron. JMHO.     

Same here.  At my encampment last summer, we didn't do that much drill at all.  We did have AF TIs for 2 days teaching use some things, but other than that we didn't do it.  Almost everywhere we went we were in route (is that how you spell it?) step.  Our pass and review got cancelled because the base was under black flag conditions, which was good because we didn't practice it at all.

[arajca]

A couple years ago, the dining facility usually used at encampment was closed for remodelling. It was located next door to the dorms we used. As a result we had to use the NCO club, which was about a quarter mile (if that) away from the dorms. People were trying to figure out how to schedule vans to ge the cadets to chow! I made a simple suggestion - since it was only a quarter mile, why not (gasp) march to and from chow. From the initial response, you'd think I suggested we line the cadets up and shoot them. A short discussion later (5-10 min) and the encampment cc agreed that marching them was 1. easier on the vans, 2. easier on the schedule, and 3. very much in keeping with the cadet program.

At encampments WIWAC, we marched everywhere on base (Volk Field, WI). The only time we used  vehicular transportation was to visit a nearby Army post and for O-flights. We would typically put 10 or more miles on our boots daily.

I don't know if other wings have this issue with limited marching at encampment, but I think there should be a great deal of it.

[NDCS]

Things you learn about CAP . Every encampment (Joint (North and South) Dakota encampment) I attended cadet march ever where they go. As a Tac officer I went with the flight to advise when they were doing thing wrong also I only talk to cadet in charge of the flight given them suggestions and point out mistakes (just a another set of eyes.)
Pass in review is practice everday we only take the cadet staff and color guard which practice the commands and movements. Basic cadets are used to-wards the end of encampment so everone will know what to do. This way the cadet staff can work out all kinks before the basic cadets are use. Nothing worse than trying to practice something when people in charge do not know what their doing.

[Eclipse]

Leadership - incorporate a thread that as grade increases, so does responsibility, and accolades DECREASE in proportion.  Good leaders set the tone, make the plan, and get none of the overt credit.  Also no job is too menial for the a good leader.

Marching - very important.  At Great Lakes we march just about everywhere, and last year encountered a problem we hadn't considered.  The new Navy "ships" have a galley in each, which limits the movement of recruits and gets them more used to tighter quarters early on (you live, eat, and do most of your training in the same building, like a ship).

This meant we were 2-5 minutes from chow, what we didn't count on, however, was that this much less marching, meant the newer cadets weren't getting the training through osmosis for things like staying in step and formation.

Something we have to work on this year.

[NDCS]

Thanks for great discussion but I am still looking for thinking out the box leadership classes/problems as found in unofficial Cadet NCO Guide. If you have not seen this here is one site it can be found http://www.geocities.com/ncrsd050/cg.html

If any one has any good ideas I would be greatly appreciated them.

[CAP428]

This is kind of out-of-encampment season, but I thought I would reply.

I agree that basic skills like drill, uniform wear [especially] need to be focused on more.

As far as original things, I would like to see a lot more military stuff, like working air shows if there is one, touring bases, planes, etc and meeting with military personnel.

[Psicorp]

In Florida, Homestead, McCoy have closed, Tyndall has the barracks, but during summer months AFROTC uses them. Eglin has no space available, the same with MacDill. So Florida Wing has to use the Florida Army National Guard facility at Camp Blanding. I'm sure the Air Force would love to have CAP for encampments to learn about Air Force life, but the factilities are no longer available.

Sir, my last cadet encampment was in Florida Wing in '95.  We stayed at some older barracks near Hurlburt Field, the encampment didn't last too long for many of us as Hurricane Erin decided to pay us a visit.  Most of the cadets stayed due to the facility being much more structurally sound than pretty much any other place.  Several Seniors and a dozen of us cadets were shipped out to assist the Red Cross to help set up shelters for the surrounding communities. 

I'm rather curious to know if those barracks are still standing/in use.

[ladyreferee]

I was a tactical officer this last summer at Volk in Wis. - I passed out bags of cough drops to the cadet staff as the week went on.  Seems they weren't taught to use their diaphragm and instead used the throat - a few couldn't even do anything but whisper by the third day    You think this should be covered before the basics get on base?

A few years ago a son attended a different encampment where they flew in a Blackhawk, spent time on an obstacle course, and shot M-16's powered by CO2.  Yet they didn't march half as much as the cadets did at Wis.  Which was more fun?  The one with the toys - but which one grows a cadet in the program?  Both programs had good things and things that could be improved.  The biggest thing is the time factor - you only have so much time to get finished the program required in CAPR52-16... then you can do the optional stuff if your program is longer!