Cadet Community Service Ribbon

[356cadet]

I am currently working on the cadet community service ribbon. I have researched the ribbon's criteria, and it says nothing about volunteering in a specific environment. So, I volunteered at my mother's work. They help doctors, construction superintendants and dentists find places to work. Of course, they are not a non-profitable organization.

Basically, what I'm trying to get across is that I am confused as to whether my hours volunteering at my mother's work is valid for service hours. I've been doing clerical things (i.e. checking through files, inserting names in the computer, etc.) for about 2 weeks, acquiring a total of 51 service hours to date.

Can anyone please clarify whether my hours volunteering there is valid for this ribbon? Thanks you.

PS. I have read through CAPR 39-3 and read the community service criteria, and it has no environment criteria. I also checked on the NHQ website, and that has no specific environment as well. Trust me, I researched everywhere, but here, before I posted. Please help. Thanks.

[Pylon]

You're correct in that there is nothing that specifies the type, location, or venue for community service.  Your service would meet the word of the regulation.  Once you have 60 hours, I would get the person who has coordinated your volunteer service for the organization (or someone in the organization's management) to write a letter, on official letterhead, indicating that you have served them for more than 60 hours.  It couldn't hurt for them to mention that they are a non-profit organization, and mention how your help assisted them in accomplishing their mission.  Non-profits are often shorthanded, especially with administrative assistance, so your help around the office could certainly have gone a long way in helping them accomplish their mission.

The deciding factor, of course, is your approving authority.  The Wing Commander (or his designee) must review and approve the award.  They are not required to approve it, therefore a well-written letter would be advisable. 

I'm a Deputy Commander for Cadets, and I would gladly sign for service such as what you described and pass it up the chain.

[356cadet]

That's what I'm worried about, though. I'm not volunteering in a non-profitable organization. However, would that be a problem?

[RiverAux]

I don't know anything about the specifics of this regulation, but find it hard to believe that we would award a ribbon for volunteering at a for-profit business.  Thats not what I think of when I think of community service. 

[356cadet]

That's the part I'm afraid of. 

[356cadet]

I've come to realize though that I am helping the community of medical and construction officials by organizaing their resumes. Out of the fifty clients that come in, only about four get jobs, therefor paying the company, whereas the others find the courage to locate jobs themselves.

This is only an amateur aspect, though.

Edit: It is currently 2143, so I will be heading off to bed. I will check all responses tomorrow morning. However, you may continue helping me solve my dispute. Thank you for your time.

[RiverAux]

So here are the criteria:

i. Cadet Community Service Ribbon. Awarded to cadets who complete 60 hours of community service.  The service must be verified by a volunteer coordinator

Talk about vague.  Well, if it were me, I wouldn't award it, but really, you need to talk to your leadership since how they interpret the so-called criteria for this ribbon is what is going to matter. 

Either way, it was probably good experience for you.

[PA Guy]

How does volunteering at a for profit business qualify as community service?  If you volunteered at McDonald's would you consider that community service?  This is not the intent of the award.  Volunteer at the Red Cross, community center, senior center, in other words a community service provider not a for profit business. If I were your sqdn CC I  wouldn't approve it.

[Hawk200]

How does volunteering at a for profit business qualify as community service?  If you volunteered at McDonald's would you consider that community service?  This is not the intent of the award.  Volunteer at the Red Cross, community center, senior center, in other words a community service provider not a for profit business. If I were your sqdn CC I  wouldn't approve it.

I agree, and I wouldn't sign off either.

Judging from the posters signature block, and the comments in the original post, this is simply a case of a cadet working for an award, rather than being rewarded for work. The concern seems to be about the size of the ribbon rack, rather than how they can help others.

If it was actual community service, I'd probably have to admit that even though it was being done for the sole purpose of getting a ribbon, the community still received a benefit. But, it just doesn't seem to be an example of "selfless service" to me.

[Hawk200]

I've come to realize though that I am helping the community of medical and construction officials by organizaing their resumes. Out of the fifty clients that come in, only about four get jobs, therefor paying the company, whereas the others find the courage to locate jobs themselves.

This is only an amateur aspect, though.

Seems more like rationalization than realization. You talk of clients and payment to a company, those aren't really community benefit programs. What have you done to serve the community? Because working for free so you can get a ribbon isn't service.

[Duke Dillio]

The cadets in my last squadron used to gain their hours by participating in the squadron's road clean up day.  Every month, we would go walk a portion of highway which we were assigned by the "Adopt a Road" program.  Since it was like 6 hours every time and they did other projects for the community, it didn't take long for them to earn the ribbon.  I'm with the other guys in saying that this service for a profit corporation is not community service.

[lordmonar]

For profit/not for profit...is not nearly as important to me as how much of the community is helped.

My rules are.....they do not get paid.....and it is not tied into any sort of punishment.

In this case I would be asking the cadet why he was volunteering to help out his mother's work place?

[James Shaw]

I ran this program for Cadets in my area at one time. The key to this is "non-compensated work". You cannot get financially compensated for the work. You can get like a free lunch or something but no money. Other than that you should not have a problem.

[356cadet]

I'm back, and I thankn all of you for your help. There are negatives and positives for this ribbon, but I will contact my Squadron Commander, poerhaps my Wing Commander as well.

I would also like to get a couple things straightened out. Sure, I am working for the ribbon, but not for the size of my rack. I just wanted to assist in getting some infinished work done around the office. It's true, I am NOT getting paid, just soley for service hours. In concerns for why I'm volunteering there: last time I went there before I volunteered, their office was a mess. I asked them "Need some help cleaning the place up," and from there on, here I am.

Again, I would like to thank all of you.

ED: You may continue with suggestions, though.

[Eclipse]

I've had to address this myself, same situation, and no ribbon was awarded.

I think anything that is going to be considered for a CSR should be discussed in advance to insure its not simply a check box for something the cadet would be doing regardless, and certainly not involving a for-profit corporation.   

The corporation issue especially is a very slippery slope - you start giving CSR's to cadets who are basically just working for free in a regular job, and soon you'll be getting calls from small companies all over the neighborhood looking for slave labor. 

IMHO, the CSR should be a situation similar to an Eagle Scout project, etc., discussed in advance, specific to the award, and within some reasonable common sense.

It should also not be awarded as an "value-added-ribbon" as I have seen in the past  (i.e. as another ribbon attached to ES activity, etc., because "that is community service". ES has its own ribbons and awards).

Since the award is almost entirely subjective and awarded at the unit level (at least in my state), YMMV.

At the end of the day, if the service fits the core values and isn't just another jelly bean, I wouldn't argue with one of my commanders who made a valid justification that didn't fit the above 100%.

[MIKE]

The cadets in my last squadron used to gain their hours by participating in the squadron's road clean up day. 

This is another no-go. Linky.  "Squadron activities" should not count.

[356cadet]

Yeah, I was about to comment on that.

[addo1]

  I recieved my ribbon awhile back.  I was told it could not be relatd to any CAP activity, but without that I still ran up 80 something hours.

Also, I have a question.  I heard that you can get a star for it or something like that after 125 hours or something.  Is that correct?

[MIKE]

No it's not.

4. There are no devices currently authorized for this ribbon.

See also: Linky

[RiverAux]

Tricky though.  The knowledgebase answer could be read to say that as long as it isn't a typical CAP activity, that it might count.  For example, they mention highway clean-up as one way of getting the ribbon.  Highway clean-ups certainly aren't part of any regular CAP program that I'm aware of -- its not what we're here to do.  But, just because the squadron organized a clean-up rather than another group, that means that it won't count?  

Note that there are two referenced articles in the knowledgebase answer that specifically relate to CAP-organized activities outside the scope of normal CAP actions.  

They're sort of sending mixed messages there.  

[addo1]

No it's not.

4. There are no devices currently authorized for this ribbon.

Ok, thanks for clarifying.  Someone had told me that.  I will let them know.

[Eclipse]

But, just because the squadron organized a clean-up rather than another group, that means that it won't count? 

Correct.

[RiverAux]

That was more rhetorical than anything else.  The point was that they then go on to highlight two squadron-organized community service projects thereby implying that they would qualify for the ribbon, presumably because they aren't typical CAP activities. 

[Hawk200]

In concerns for why I'm volunteering there: last time I went there before I volunteered, their office was a mess. I asked them "Need some help cleaning the place up," and from there on, here I am.

It's nice that you want to help out your mother's office to clean up, but that isn't of benefit to the community. You didn't go into the community to actively help.

Some examples: volunteering at the Red Cross, Meals on Wheels, teaching the illiterate to read, working at rest homes or senior centers, serving food to the homeless, working at the Special Olympics. Even organizing a neighborhood watch might be considered by some people. Just going to Mom's office doesn't seem like a whole lot of effort.

What have you done that benefits the community as a whole? Improving the efficiency of an office doesn't show that you made an effort to benefit everyone.

You also stated "Sure, I am working for the ribbon, but not for the size of my rack." That doesn't make sense. You're working for something with a direct impact on the other. If you get the ribbon, are you not going to wear it? Seems like you're working to get paid with a piece of cloth instead of cash.

[RiverAux]

Cut him some slack...he came here asking about whether or not this would count, so its not like he's trying to slip something by everyone...

[356cadet]

Cut him some slack...he came here asking about whether or not this would count, so its not like he's trying to slip something by everyone...

Thank you, River Aux.  :clap:

[Hawk200]

Cut him some slack...he came here asking about whether or not this would count, so its not like he's trying to slip something by everyone...

If it's a simple matter of that, I'd say "No". To clarify, it's not benefitting the community in a direct manner.

[lordmonar]

The cadets in my last squadron used to gain their hours by participating in the squadron's road clean up day. 

This is another no-go. Linky.  "Squadron activities" should not count.

When the squadron gets together specifically to do community service?    It most certainly should count.   If the squadron gets together to clean the hanger or fix up the squadron building...then no.

[jb512]

As they say, you get what you pay for and advice around here is about up to par with that.

When you get enough community service hours accumulated, document them and submit them up your chain of command for approval.  If there is any issue then your staff should be able to help and you should look up the specific regulation about that award.  Your best approach for this or anything else in the future is to do your research by consulting the regs and asking your chain of command.  Not everyone in here is the know-all of know-alls.

[MIKE]

The cadets in my last squadron used to gain their hours by participating in the squadron's road clean up day. 

This is another no-go. Linky.  "Squadron activities" should not count.

When the squadron gets together specifically to do community service?    It most certainly should count.   

I disagree... to me, thats still a squadron activity.  The ribbon is for the cadet who on his or her own time volunteers at a soup kitchen etc.

[lordmonar]

The cadets in my last squadron used to gain their hours by participating in the squadron's road clean up day. 

This is another no-go. Linky.  "Squadron activities" should not count.

When the squadron gets together specifically to do community service?    It most certainly should count.   

I disagree... to me, thats still a squadron activity.  The ribbon is for the cadet who on his or her own time volunteers at a soup kitchen etc.

Sorry Mike...but that is just lame.  Just because someone in the squadron planned and executed the project should not make it a non player for community service.
The ribbon is for community service....."on his or her own time vounteering..."  No where does it say that it can't be a CAP organised event.  It just can't be a "normal" CAP thing....i.e. they don't want us to use our air show and color guard time (which I agree with).
But if my squadron gives up a week end to help out a community agency why not give them credit for community service....its what they did.

[Eclipse]

Requirements for the Community Service Ribbon for cadets are covered in  CAPR 39-3, Award of CAP Medals, Ribbons, and Certificates. Section F Paragraph 21.i states, " Cadet Community Service Ribbon. Awarded to cadets who complete 60 hours of community service. The service must be verified by a volunteer coordinator. "

The wing commander is the approval authority for the 2a request (unless he or she has delegated this responsibility to the squadron/group commander in accordance with the same regulation).

There are a few assumptions about this ribbon:
1. That the community service occurred outside of CAP.
2. That a CAP member is not verifying the cadet's community service (unless, of course, this CAP member can speak for the outside organization, and sign the verifying letter for the outside organization).
3. The regulation does not require that the verification be on an organizational letterhead, but most outside agencies would probably use their letterheads when verifying someone's volunteer participation.
4. There are no devices currently authorized for this ribbon.

Comments about the KB being non-regulatory may be factually true, but hold little weight in these discussions. Especially in light of the fact that the CSR is awarded on almost a 100% subjective basis, anyway.

[RiverAux]

As I've pointed out previously, the KB says one thing, but the examples it gives say another....I think the KB has confused itself on this one. 

[Eclipse]

This question is raised in about 3 or 4 different flavors and the answer is essentially the same in each response.

[Sleepwalker]

lordmonar,

  I agree with you.  We also clean up the road next to our building, but we do it during regular scheduled meetings (during daylight hours).  In this case, I do NOT include this as 'community service'.  However, if we ever were to do this outside our regularly scheduled meetings, then I would. 
   We do many other things to help out out our community (outside of our regular meetings) that I consider 'community service' because our Cadets are asked to come help, but not required to.  This service is in addition to their commitment to regular meetings, trips, classes, etc. 
  All this, of course, is IMHO, but that is my criteria as a Squad Comm.         

[Jolt]

I'll throw a stone in the pond.  I volunteer as an EMT with a nearby ambulance service.  We sign up for shifts as opposed to having an area response system where everyone who's available shows up for a call.  I know for a fact I've done far more than 60 hours in the past several months.

The only problem is, the company reimburses volunteers for the time they put in.  The money is given so that we can afford to drive in to do a shift and eat reasonably during that shift.  Our officers have made it very clear that we're not even allowed to refer to this as "payment" because it's "reimbursement."  I could even show the memo from the treasurer if you'd like.

So... what do you think?

[lordmonar]

Depends on the amount....if it really is just gas and food money...then yes.

So I would say that if you are getting more than say $15-20/day or if you get "reimbursed" on an hourly basis....then no I would see that as getting paid.

Definatly a gray area...and I would have to see the details to make a call.

[cnitas]

The only problem is, the company reimburses volunteers for the time they put in.  The money is given so that we can afford to drive in to do a shift and eat reasonably during that shift. 

Are you reimbursed for your gas/milage and food, or do they just pay you like a paycheck for hours worked?

'Reimbursement' for your time is called a wage or salary.

[Hawk200]

I'll throw a stone in the pond.  I volunteer as an EMT with a nearby ambulance service.  We sign up for shifts as opposed to having an area response system where everyone who's available shows up for a call.  I know for a fact I've done far more than 60 hours in the past several months.

The only problem is, the company reimburses volunteers for the time they put in.  The money is given so that we can afford to drive in to do a shift and eat reasonably during that shift.  Our officers have made it very clear that we're not even allowed to refer to this as "payment" because it's "reimbursement."  I could even show the memo from the treasurer if you'd like.

So... what do you think?

Sounds more like a "per diem" to me. As has been said above, probably a gray area. Not sure what I would do if I had cadet turn something like that in for consideration.

[356cadet]

Requirements for the Community Service Ribbon for cadets are covered in  CAPR 39-3, Award of CAP Medals, Ribbons, and Certificates. Section F Paragraph 21.i states, " Cadet Community Service Ribbon. Awarded to cadets who complete 60 hours of community service. The service must be verified by a volunteer coordinator. "

The wing commander is the approval authority for the 2a request (unless he or she has delegated this responsibility to the squadron/group commander in accordance with the same regulation).

There are a few assumptions about this ribbon:
1. That the community service occurred outside of CAP.
2. That a CAP member is not verifying the cadet's community service (unless, of course, this CAP member can speak for the outside organization, and sign the verifying letter for the outside organization).
3. The regulation does not require that the verification be on an organizational letterhead, but most outside agencies would probably use their letterheads when verifying someone's volunteer participation.
4. There are no devices currently authorized for this ribbon.

Comments about the KB being non-regulatory may be factually true, but hold little weight in these discussions. Especially in light of the fact that the CSR is awarded on almost a 100% subjective basis, anyway.

This is what I looked up, even before starting this topic, on the NHQ KB. This is basically what I am basing my work on. I have yet to find an answer from my Squadron Commander about this, but this source is very reliable to me.

[356cadet]

Just wanted to update for everyone. I have gotten my service hours approved by, both, my squadron commander and wing commander. I will be awarded the ribbon on the next meeting. A long journy ended.