2B or not 2B

lordmonar · July 03, 2008, 02:53:30 PM

Quote from: CASH172 on July 03, 2008, 02:46:52 PM
Quote from: Sqn72DO on July 03, 2008, 02:42:26 PM
During the appeal hearing, the group CC decides to reduce the cadet to C/TSGT and allow the cadet to "re-earn" rank and achievements at 1 month intervals and also requires that said cadet perform a speech to the other cadets of both squadrons about honor, integrity, etc.

I don't understand how he could've re-earned rank if he never got it. That seems totally unfair that he gets to get gain rank at half the interval.

I would guess....

They were throwing a bone to the cadet....i.e. they had no proof that they were forged...just a strong suspicion. So they split the difference and trashed the regulations and came up with a compromise.

MIKE · July 03, 2008, 03:11:58 PM

Quote from: Psicorp on July 03, 2008, 01:49:04 PM
If a member quits and turns in his/her membership card, is there a way to prevent that person from obtaining a new card from National short of a 2B?

When they throw their card on the table drop a 2b for Voluntary Resignation for their signature. Maybe keep one on file pre-filled so you just have to add dates and name?

If someone is gonna surrender their card, you might as well make it official and take them through the process... even if it is a bit heated.

RiverAux · July 03, 2008, 03:32:37 PM

QuoteThey were throwing a bone to the cadet....i.e. they had no proof that they were forged...just a strong suspicion. So they split the difference and trashed the regulations and came up with a compromise.

Seems easy enough to prove to me. Either the person actually signed it or they didn't. With the easy availability of "witnesses" from the former unit, it shouldn't have been a big deal.

Eclipse · July 03, 2008, 05:13:06 PM

Quote from: RiverAux on July 03, 2008, 03:32:37 PM
QuoteThey were throwing a bone to the cadet....i.e. they had no proof that they were forged...just a strong suspicion. So they split the difference and trashed the regulations and came up with a compromise.
Seems easy enough to prove to me. Either the person actually signed it or they didn't. With the easy availability of "witnesses" from the former unit, it shouldn't have been a big deal.

Mitchell awards do not just magically appear, and if he had one, forged or not, its a little late to be blowing the whistle on the kid back to Tech.

Johnny Yuma · July 10, 2008, 04:16:51 PM

QuoteBear in mind, too, that a 2b could potentially impact this cadet's ability to enter the service, get certain jobs, and/or have other unintended consequences. That's a lot to pin on a kid for being a PITA.

HUH?!?!?!?!?

You're joking, right? Being kicked out of CAP is about as serious as getting kicked out of the Webelos in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Flying Pig · July 10, 2008, 05:40:14 PM

Quote from: Johnny Yuma on July 10, 2008, 04:16:51 PM
QuoteBear in mind, too, that a 2b could potentially impact this cadet's ability to enter the service, get certain jobs, and/or have other unintended consequences. That's a lot to pin on a kid for being a PITA.

HUH?!?!?!?!?

You're joking, right? Being kicked out of CAP is about as serious as getting kicked out of the Webelos in the eyes of the rest of the world.

This was the big rumor when I was a cadet also. I see its alive and well. Being 2b'd out of CAP only prevents you from being in CAP, assuming there were no criminal issues attached. Even then, it would be the criminal issues that would follow you, not the 2b. Two branches of the military and 2 law enforcement agencies, I have never been asked about my status in CAP in anyway, nor have I ever been required to disclose that I was a CAP member. For someone who joins the military, it only comes up if they are claiming it for advanced rank upon initial enlistment.

I would be curious as to what jobs someone thinks it would prevent you from getting? Maybe a civilian job at NHQ possibly, or maybe a business owned by a CAP member? Other than that......

I remember the stories of the mysterious CAP cadet who was 2b'd who was seen years later wandering skid row digging in trash cans because his life had been ruined by the 2b. I even had a Senior Member tell a group of us that a 2b went on your record as a felony in some states. Siiiiiiiigh......the cadet underground is a powerful thing.

Duke Dillio · July 11, 2008, 04:38:49 PM

In the case that I brought up, it wasn't the 2B that supposedly "ruined" his life. This kid was a liar by nature. He lied about his Mitchell. He lied to the Air Force about having it and then used it to gain advanced rank which he didn't deserve. Now he owns a security company whose whole basis is on ensuring that the customers trust him and his company. The sad point of the story is that he didn't learn his lesson from a 2B or from being forcibly removed from the military. This is probably why I drill the concept of honor into the cadets that I deal with.

Stonewall · July 11, 2008, 09:34:21 PM

Yes. This is not right. The "problem cadet" should not be moved or allowed to stay in CAP in any capacity. I would fight it as it may come back to bite someone in the butt.

mikeylikey · July 11, 2008, 09:50:12 PM

^ That is why I have an AKO and AF Portal Account. I like to "check" on people I meet online claiming to be heroes. I just can't get into the Marine or Navy system.. For some reason it won't let me register, maybe because I am not in the Navy, but the AF let me register even though I am not in the AF. Weird.

Actually the Marine Distance Ed system let me register. I have yet to take any courses through it though.

birdog · July 11, 2008, 10:44:26 PM

Quote from: Stonewall on July 11, 2008, 09:34:21 PM
Yes. This is not right. The "problem cadet" should not be moved or allowed to stay in CAP in any capacity. I would fight it as it may come back to bite someone in the butt.

Was that at me? So I've got a follow up. While I was out of town for the holiday I got a call from a neighboring unit CC wanting to know why this cadet was just transfered in. Wing in their infinite wisdom had decided to transfer him without consulting either unit CC. Long story short this kid is assigned to Group HQ in the hope that he just non renews. He was involved in plan to break into our unit HQ which is in a municipal airport FBO and steal his file with another cadet who was 2B'd right afterward. This was about a year ago. The whole situation sucks.

Johnny Yuma · July 12, 2008, 04:23:15 AM

Quote from: birdog on July 11, 2008, 10:44:26 PM
Quote from: Stonewall on July 11, 2008, 09:34:21 PM
Yes. This is not right. The "problem cadet" should not be moved or allowed to stay in CAP in any capacity. I would fight it as it may come back to bite someone in the butt.
Was that at me? So I've got a follow up. While I was out of town for the holiday I got a call from a neighboring unit CC wanting to know why this cadet was just transfered in. Wing in their infinite wisdom had decided to transfer him without consulting either unit CC. Long story short this kid is assigned to Group HQ in the hope that he just non renews. He was involved in plan to break into our unit HQ which is in a municipal airport FBO and steal his file with another cadet who was 2B'd right afterward. This was about a year ago. The whole situation sucks.

Question: Has anyone even tried to talk to Mommy and Daddy about Junior?

The unit CC could also have a "quiet talk" with the Airport management. Having the kid banned from airport property trumps a 2B, at least as far as attending the local unit meetings.

jimmydeanno · July 14, 2008, 12:56:57 PM

Quote from: birdog on July 11, 2008, 10:44:26 PM
Long story short this kid is assigned to Group HQ in the hope that he just non renews.

Yep, sounds about right - why actually deal with the problem when you can just "hope it goes away." It's a pretty large theme in most of the "problems" in CAP I've seen. (Not directed at you, but those who made the decision)

birdog · July 14, 2008, 01:30:04 PM

Since I have been talking this over with people it turns out that while not smart it was within regs to retain him. He apparently appealed and somehow won. Problem is our unit was not given the chance to present our case. He's not even aware that he is attached to group. He told me to return the stuff my logistics section retrieved in the chance he gets called up for a mission this week. No one will call him.

CASH172 · July 14, 2008, 02:02:00 PM

Can I ask how old this cadet is and if his parents know of the situation. To me his behavior wouldn't come out from a 12-14 year old but someone older. If he is older than someone really has to show him he can't keep doing this.

I also do believe his parents should be notified so they're aware something is in fact happening. If they have no idea, then maybe they can make the situation calmer.

mikeylikey · July 14, 2008, 02:08:21 PM

He won his appeal. Now you need to drop the situation. If you don't call him out for a mission and he is qualified, you may actually be brought up before the membership review board. Don't make it personal. Keep a paper trail, and document everything. Then present your case with the evidence making the charges against him. In fact, you may want to distance yourself, and assign another officer to keep tabs on this Cadet.

Just some friendly advice.

c172drv · July 14, 2008, 02:12:01 PM

Seeing as he is no longer part of your unit. I would transfer his personnel folder to Group, since they now "own" him. Don't return his gear that was issued and retrieved since he is no longer part of your unit. Don't call him out since he is no longer part of your unit. Make sure he knows where he belongs.

Good Luck!

John

birdog · July 14, 2008, 03:05:03 PM

I've not initiated contact with him except to retrieve my gear. He keeps texting me. Usually to start a fight. I try to ignore him but I can only take so much before I have to defend myself. So yes it is personal but only because he made it so. I used to consider him a friend and do things with him outside of official stuff but haven't in over a year. He's 17 and wants to be a Marine but failed his medicals because they found amphetamines in his blood. Those would be his ADHD meds that he lied and said he didn't have when he signed up. To call him narcissistic would be insulting to self respecting narcissists everywhere.

mikeylikey · July 14, 2008, 03:33:16 PM

A face to face......."don't contact me ever again, we are not friends" should suffice.

also......are you the SQD commander? Are you a Senior Member?? Are you a Cadet? If your a senior Member.....this is the reason why we should not be friends with Cadets. If your a Cadet, let the Senior Members handle this. This is why they are there.

c172drv · July 14, 2008, 03:39:01 PM

If he is texting you repeatedly I would send him a formal letter or email stating that you wish him to stop. I would copy in your chain of command up to Wing CC and include Wing Legal. If he continues then you have a harassment issue that you can proceed with to Wing Legal. It is important that you don't let this get to far. Sounds like this cadet is a bit troubled and will need a full measure of effort to get the change to go through his brain.

Real bummer to deal with this stuff.

John

PS Document everything. Every text message, email and phone call to include content time and date and your response. I wold then possibly bundle that all together to wing. If wing doesn't do anything then you have an issue to take to the IG.

birdog · July 14, 2008, 03:55:43 PM

Quote from: mikeylikey on July 14, 2008, 03:33:16 PM
A face to face......."don't contact me ever again, we are not friends" should suffice.

also......are you the SQD commander? Are you a Senior Member?? Are you a Cadet? If your a senior Member.....this is the reason why we should not be friends with Cadets. If your a Cadet, let the Senior Members handle this. This is why they are there.

I agree with the relationship part. However we were friends before our unit had even stood up. We both joined after the unit was formed. I am CD/S. I function more as a VC though because I am more experienced than the CD/C and more available than the CC so I am a conduit between the boss and the unit. I also tend to get out in the wing and meet people more than the other officers so I have relationships with other unit CC and our Grp CC. I'm not trying to put my CC down but he is a federal employee and his schedule sucks so he can't get out and meet people. That and wing does everything they can to screw my Grp but that's a whole nuther issue.