abus

[Eclipse]

There are only so many darker colors to choose from, no matter what we chose someone would be using it for something.

Black, blue and gray are used by police, swat, and pest abatement.  Green by forestry. Orange by a lot of correctional facilities.

The point is to find something uniquely ours and move on.

If the military connection is that important to the cadet program, leave cadets in a military look-alike.

[arajca]

There are only so many darker colors to choose from, no matter what we chose someone would be using it for something.

Black, blue and gray are used by police, swat, and pest abatement.  Green by forestry. Orange by a lot of correctional facilities.

The point is to find something uniquely ours and move on.

If the military connection is that important to the cadet program, leave cadets in a military look-alike.

Brown is used by some sheriff's departments and correctional agencies for officers, not "guests". Olive drab is also used by varous LE agencies.

If we want something distinctive, a two tone set would be best.  Most agencies who wear bdu-style uniforms use the same color for shirts and trousers. In another discussion, various two-tone set ups were discussed. IIRC, the khaki/tan over blue was the most popular, but some felt it had too much of a Marine wannabe look. Since the golf shirt uniform is appearing more regularly at incident bases, perhaps a blue over grey bdu-style uniform could be considered for the field.

[Stonewall]

Maybe CAP should go with the original ABUs they tested in 2004.  They may not be tactically sound, but they sure as heck stand out....

[CadetProgramGuy]

Thanks to Stonewall, I now know my new shipment of keyboards was not a waste of money........

[afgeo4]

I just spoke about ABU's to an NYANG CMSgt and he knew that USAF authorized the wear of ABU's for CAP just like this board's members claim. He told me that we'd be wearing them soon, like the rest of the total force.

Yes, the boots would be green. No, they're not all $120. There are versions for as little as $98.

I think the authorization will come sometime in 2010 as just about all USAF, USAFR and ANG personnel should be in full 4 sets issued status by then. I think 5 years phase-in should be sufficient for our purposes, so perhaps mandatory wear date of 2015.

The woodland BDU isn't slated to be worn by any service. All but USN have already switched and even the Navy's coming up soon. Their battle uniform is based on the USMC's digital patter, but in dark blue, black, and gray colors. The BDU won't be available much longer because no one will make them to military standards. Sure, there'll be pants and shirts in woodland pattern, but they may be odd in cut, fit and look. They will also be substandard in quality.

USCG does still wear black boots, but we're technically not allowed to shop at their exchanges. Thankfully, all the combat boot manufacturers (Altama, Bates, Belleville, Danner, and Wellco) are still making military specs black boots.

[RiverAux]

USCG does still wear black boots, but we're technically not allowed to shop at their exchanges.

Having bought a pair of black boots from the CG's Uniform Distribution Center, I'm not terribly impressed with them.  Fine for shipboard use, but I don't think the tread woud cut it in the woods.

[MIKE]

Super Boot II?

[Stonewall]

Super Boot II?

A lot of the Navy guys in Jacksonville wear these.  Guess they get them at USCG Station Mayport's MCSS...



They look comfy, but like River said, not sure they'd be good for ground team work.

[MIKE]

Super Boot III is coming though.  I'm hoping to get by with my ICBs from CAP until I need the safety toes.

[mikeylikey]

USCG does still wear black boots, but we're technically not allowed to shop at their exchanges.

When they are the only ones wearing black boots, and all other suppliers have stopped making money off producing (when they switch the assembly lines over to tans/greens/grey) blacks boots, I bet we see CG pick up one of the other services distinctive boots.  Most likely whatever the navy goes with. 

Right now the largest distributors of black boots (AAFES/navy and marine exchange) no longer distribute black boots.  So we are stuck buying on line or surplus.  That is not a winning situation for us. 

AF needs to set a date for ABU's for CAP, and CAPNHQ needs to say "AF sage green boots are now permitted to be worn with BDU's".  SO CAP-USAF start working on this!   

Fixed quote - MIKE

[afgeo4]

USCG does still wear black boots, but we're technically not allowed to shop at their exchanges.

When they are the only ones wearing black boots, and all other suppliers have stopped making money off producing (when they switch the assembly lines over to tans/greens/grey) blacks boots, I bet we see CG pick up one of the other services distinctive boots.  Most likely whatever the navy goes with. 

Right now the largest distributors of black boots (AAFES/navy and marine exchange) no longer distribute black boots.  So we are stuck buying on line or surplus.  That is not a winning situation for us. 

AF needs to set a date for ABU's for CAP, and CAPNHQ needs to say "AF sage green boots are now permitted to be worn with BDU's".  SO CAP-USAF start working on this!   

Fixed quote - MIKE

Mikey, I'm 100% with you on this. They need to phase in the boots before everything else. Allowing for smooth transitions makes the financial burden just a little lighter on everyone.

For now, I have 3 pair of black leather boots and I'll resole them if needed, but I don't want to buy a new pair until the sage green ones are a "GO" for us.

[afgeo4]

USCG does still wear black boots, but we're technically not allowed to shop at their exchanges.

Having bought a pair of black boots from the CG's Uniform Distribution Center, I'm not terribly impressed with them.  Fine for shipboard use, but I don't think the tread woud cut it in the woods.

USCG boots, like Navy boots are "deck" boots. They're flatter on the bottom to allow for better friction on ship/boat decks (like jump boots). They're fine for garrison use, but not for GT work.

Besides, as CAP members, we don't have authorization to shop in NAVEX or CGEX, so it's a moot point. 1000 people out of 50,000+ who have privileges because of outside affiliation don't count, sorry. We have to go by what we're specifically allowed.

As a side note, the last time I was at McGuire/Dix/Lakehearst JSB, I stopped by the MCSS (services all branches except CG) and they didn't have black boots in stock. They said the USN personnel order them by phone via NAVEX.

[MIKE]

IIRC, even the USAF doesn't allow the sage boots to be worn with the BDU... They made allowances to wear the tan boots with the ABU and DCU, but not the BDU.

Edit: I meant BDU.

[afgeo4]

IIRC, even the USAF doesn't allow the sage boots to be worn with the BDU... They made allowances to wear the tan boots with the ABU and DCU, but not the ABU.

There was a reason for it. The sage green boots arrived long after the ABU did. As such, they didn't have an issue of someone having the boots and not having the uniform.

They allowed the desert boots to be worn with ABU because black was definitely out of question in theater and as I said earlier, the sage just weren't available yet.

They figured that by the time the sage boots did come to MCSS, the ABU would be widely available for purchase (FOR USAF PERSONNEL).

That isn't the case for us unfortunately. We have easier access to the boots (via internet) than we do to the ABU and we don't get issued anything anyway. We have to pay for it all. I'm just saying it would be the right thing to do to authorize CAP to do that and we'd definitely need approval from USAF for it, but hey, they don't seem to mind extra distinctiveness.

Our leaders need to emphasize the cost of membership in CAP to USAF leadership. With the economy going down, they may end up doing that by total membership numbers if they aren't careful.

[Viper QA]

FYI- The USAF allows the sage green boots to be worn with the BDU uniform. I'm not sure when they made that decision, but they did. I am currently wearing a pair with my BDUs, as our many other members of my NYANG unit.

I have the ABU, but I don't like it. I'll stick to the BDU until the 2011 mandatory wear date. The ABU material is too thick & stiff. If it's above 75 you'll roast in them!

I wish we were keeping the BDU.

[MIKE]

If you can find a cite, would you mind posting it?  It would be a nice addition when forwarding a proposal for adoption.

[Stonewall]

Can't cite it other than saying I'm at Lackland AFB right now and lots of people are wearing the AF sage boots with regular (woodland) BDUs.  It is allowed.  Everyone from MTIs, Instructors, Students, Range Cadre.  Have several, at least 10, in my class of 59 wearing this combo.

You cannot, however, wear desert boots with BDUs, only ABUs and DCUs.

[Hawk200]

Can't cite it other than saying I'm at Lackland AFB right now and lots of people are wearing the AF sage boots with regular (woodland) BDUs.  It is allowed.  Everyone from MTIs, Instructors, Students, Range Cadre.  Have several, at least 10, in my class of 59 wearing this combo.

I remember a Chief at McEntire mentioning something to one of the cops wearing the sage boots with the BDU. He said he found the message on the Air Force Portal. Any of you guys that have access the the Portal might be able to find it. Stick a PDF file to a post here, I wouldn't mind adding it to my collection of uniform messages.

[Hawk200]

Never mind. Got the message off one of the base newspapre type web pages. Since I asked for it, someone else may be interested in the message, too. I've attached it.

I understand that are some other messages that alter the initial one, I don't have those, but I'm sure if it affects anyone here, they know how to find it.