Basic, Doolie, Etc

[Tim Medeiros]

well I was in the process of replying to the Doolie Parents thread when it got locked, so, here is my post.

If the terminology is not in any of our pubs, it does not any place being used by CAP.

With that said, the term and position of Web Security Admin or Administrator had no place being used by CAP until about 22 March 2007 when the first publication with its use came out, CAPP 227.  We've been using that term since the eServices system was revised in the early 2000s (I think around 2002).  CAP publications are behind the times when it comes to new terminology, does that mean we shouldn't be using it or doesn't have any place in CAP?  I'm not saying whether or not using the term Doolie or Basic Cadet (which is actually "lower" than a Doolie at USAFA according to a friend of mine whos finishing up her first year as we speak) but what I am saying is that statements logic can keep us from progressing forward when we need to by sticking us with antiquated terminology.

edit: hmm, that sounded better in my head

[smitjud]

The way we do it California Wing.

The Basic Cadets are addressed as Cadet or Cadet [insert name here].

The Basic Cadets are usually referred to as "Basics" when we are talking about them as a group.

Basic Cadets who happen to be Cadet NCO's are still addressed as Cadet.

Sergeant is reserved for the Flight Sergeant so that there is no confusion about who is who.

This is in no way an effort to force our methods and procedures on any other wing/unit.

Have a nice day.

This is the same thing we've done in AL as long as I can remember.

[Hawk200]

well I was in the process of replying to the Doolie Parents thread when it got locked, so, here is my post.

If the terminology is not in any of our pubs, it does not any place being used by CAP.

With that said, the term and position of Web Security Admin or Administrator had no place being used by CAP until about 22 March 2007 when the first publication with its use came out, CAPP 227.  We've been using that term since the eServices system was revised in the early 2000s (I think around 2002).  CAP publications are behind the times when it comes to new terminology, does that mean we shouldn't be using it or doesn't have any place in CAP?  I'm not saying whether or not using the term Doolie or Basic Cadet (which is actually "lower" than a Doolie at USAFA according to a friend of mine whos finishing up her first year as we speak) but what I am saying is that statements logic can keep us from progressing forward when we need to by sticking us with antiquated terminology.

Apparently the term was commonly used, and appropriate, so it was adopted. If the term is suitable, then it will probably will be picked up.

The term "doolie" may have been in use in some places, but it hasn't been included in any of our publications. And most likely for good reason. It's not appropriate.

A few of the etymology sites on the web indicate that the most probably history of the term "doolie" is from the Greek "doulos", meaning "slave". How is that in any way appropriate to our first time encampment attending cadets?

[356cadet]

Sorry if I'm going off-topic.

Yeah, I noticed that your title said "Doolie." Being myself, having studied the AFA thouroughly, I was wondering why an AFA freshman would be considered a newcomer in a special activity.

I was wondering basic to be good enough.

[DC]

Sorry if I'm going off-topic.

Yeah, I noticed that your title said "Doolie." Being myself, having studied the AFA thouroughly, I was wondering why an AFA freshman would be considered a newcomer in a special activity.

I was wondering basic to be good enough.

I'm not quite following you... USAFA uses the term Doolie to refer to freshmen, like USNA calls their freshmen Plebes. Some CAP encampments call their basic cadets doolie. They are pretty much unrelated except in the word they use.

[Eclipse]

Being myself,

Who else would you be?

[addo1]

Being myself,

Who else would you be?

Being someone else?   

[AlphaSigOU]

Sorry if I'm going off-topic.

Yeah, I noticed that your title said "Doolie." Being myself, having studied the AFA thouroughly, I was wondering why an AFA freshman would be considered a newcomer in a special activity.

I was wondering basic to be good enough.

I'm not quite following you... USAFA uses the term Doolie to refer to freshmen, like USNA calls their freshmen Plebes. Some CAP encampments call their basic cadets doolie. They are pretty much unrelated except in the word they use.

Must be old-school-brown-shoe USAFA (back in the days when they wore khakis); the term 'doolie' is rarely used to refer to fourth class cadinks at the Zoo these days. Most times they're referred to as 'four-digs' (a corruption of 'fourth-degree') or 'smack' (reputedly it's an acronym for 'Soldier Minus Aptitude, Coordination and Knowledge').

The various military academies (and state colleges with a military cadet tradition) have unique terms for their fourth class members:

USMA - Plebe
USNA - Plebe
USAFA - Doolie (rarely), four-dig, four-degree, smack
Texas A&M Corps of Cadets - Fish
The Citadel - Knobs
VMI- Rats
Norwich - Rooks

[Cecil DP]

In my opinion the term Doolie is derogative and pejorative. There is no Doolie grade title in CAP. If we expect to train cadets we must set an example and use of term like this is an example of what not to do. i stopped by the FLWG encampment this morning and was total underwhelmed by the example the cadet and senior staff was displaying 

[spaatzmom]

i stopped by the FLWG encampment this morning and was total underwhelmed by the example the cadet and senior staff was displaying 

Sorry you felt that way, but encampment doesn't even begin until today.  Only the staff had to be there while you were there to work out last minute issues.  I am sure it is quite different now that cadets are checking in.

[PHall]

Sorry if I'm going off-topic.

Yeah, I noticed that your title said "Doolie." Being myself, having studied the AFA thouroughly, I was wondering why an AFA freshman would be considered a newcomer in a special activity.

I was wondering basic to be good enough.

I'm not quite following you... USAFA uses the term Doolie to refer to freshmen, like USNA calls their freshmen Plebes. Some CAP encampments call their basic cadets doolie. They are pretty much unrelated except in the word they use.

Must be old-school-brown-shoe USAFA (back in the days when they wore khakis); the term 'doolie' is rarely used to refer to fourth class cadinks at the Zoo these days. Most times they're referred to as 'four-digs' (a corruption of 'fourth-degree') or 'smack' (reputedly it's an acronym for 'Soldier Minus Aptitude, Coordination and Knowledge').

The various military academies (and state colleges with a military cadet tradition) have unique terms for their fourth class members:

USMA - Plebe
USNA - Plebe
USAFA - Doolie (rarely), four-dig, four-degree, smack
Texas A&M Corps of Cadets - Fish
The Citadel - Knobs
VMI- Rats
Norwich - Rooks

Never heard of that version of "SMACK".

Only one I've heard of, relayed through the 3 cadets from my unit who have gone to the Blue Zoo in the past 10 years or so, is that SMACK comes from the sound of their book bags smacking against the their left leg as they "run the strips" on the terrazzo.

The soldier reference in your definition definitely shows that it didn't come from Camp USAFA!

[lordmonar]

Sorry if I'm going off-topic.

Yeah, I noticed that your title said "Doolie." Being myself, having studied the AFA thouroughly, I was wondering why an AFA freshman would be considered a newcomer in a special activity.

I was wondering basic to be good enough.

I'm not quite following you... USAFA uses the term Doolie to refer to freshmen, like USNA calls their freshmen Plebes. Some CAP encampments call their basic cadets doolie. They are pretty much unrelated except in the word they use.

Must be old-school-brown-shoe USAFA (back in the days when they wore khakis); the term 'doolie' is rarely used to refer to fourth class cadinks at the Zoo these days. Most times they're referred to as 'four-digs' (a corruption of 'fourth-degree') or 'smack' (reputedly it's an acronym for 'Soldier Minus Aptitude, Coordination and Knowledge').

I was told they were called SMACK because that is sound fecal matter makes when it hits the wall (as an upper classman enters the room or walks down the hall).

[BillB]

Since the term Doolie was in use by CAP (at a 1946 CAP encampment at MacDill AFB) before there was an Air Force Academy, the question is "where did CAP and USAFA get the term from"

[PHall]

Since the term Doolie was in use by CAP (at a 1946 CAP encampment at MacDill AFB) before there was an Air Force Academy, the question is "where did CAP and USAFA get the term from"

Aviation Cadet Program?

Any of our historians have any input on this?

[mikeylikey]

I finally found the answer! 

A Doolie was a medical stretcher (or a term for one at least) used between 1840 and 1920.  Soldiers assigned to the Philippines who worked as medics or ambulance corpsman would routinely be called "Doolies" in recognition of some of the work they did, as in carrying the doolie.  It was also a term used on pacific islands and predominantly by the British during the First World War.  Which makes me think, the British coined the phrase, and American Soldiers picked it up when they served alongside the British or in previously occupied British colonies. 

So, its an Army term, no longer in use by the Army, and a medical term, no longer in use by the medical community.  The AF picked it up....and it is very rarely used anymore. 

WEBSTER has the following definition......."DOOLIE"
- stretcher for one person: a stretcher used, especially in the past, to carry a single ill or wounded person

[Cecil DP]

i stopped by the FLWG encampment this morning and was total underwhelmed by the example the cadet and senior staff was displaying 

Sorry you felt that way, but encampment doesn't even begin until today.  Only the staff had to be there while you were there to work out last minute issues.  I am sure it is quite different now that cadets are checking in.

Actually I saw several "Basic Cadets' report in with the staff, (I assume that was their only ride) what impressed me was several cadet officers in T shirts, keeping the cadets in a formation while there was no noticable attempts to sign them in. The first thing you learn as an NCO is that if the troops are in BDU jackets, the staff should be wearing their jackets also, none were. Rather than asking "what color is infinity?, they should have been moving them out of the 92 degree heat and processing them.  As stated I was underwhelmed.

[mikeylikey]

^ Unfortunately if you were to attend every Encampment in each of the Wings, you would find the exact same thing.  Being underwhelmed is always a possibility at any CAP activity. 

I also believe it is an unfortunate practice to have a formation for no other reason than to keep Cadets together and "out of the way". 

It is disgusting to see a formation led by a person that is not in the same uniform as those he or she is leading.