Acquiring Uniform Components

[abysmal]

Cadets and Senior Members:

Many long years ago back in 1979 I joined CAP while I was in High School as a Cadet and then transitioned to a Senior member for several years. Eventually I got busy and fell away from CAP.

4 Months ago my now 12 year old son decided to join, and I came back on board as well, and am now the Cadet Programs Officer.. Things have changed over the years....

I have 29 Cadets in my Squadron.
Because of ongoing issues with Cadets being "Out of Uniform" week after week, I had all of the Cadets fill out a complete Uniform Inventory worksheet the other night. The results were sobering.

32% of them are missing significant portions of the BDU Uniform.

43% of them are missing significant portions of the Blues uniform.

When I was a Cadet this was simply unheard of.
Now, as the numbers attest, it is almost the norm.

Most of these Cadets simply can not afford to purchase what they need, and their parents do not seemed inclined to offer the needed financial support.

What I am looking for are avenues to acquire these components at the lowest possible costs, and creative ways of raising the funds for the Cadets to be able to acquire them for themselves.

How have other Squadrons solved this problem???
_________________
Christopher M. Parrett

Cadet Programs Officer
Havasu Composite Sqdrn 501
Lake Havasu City, AZ

[MIKE]

You can try www.olcnet.com for a large selection of used service uniform components, BDU's etc.

www.thehock.com has complete packages for cadet and senior service uniforms and BDUs.  The BDU package is reasonably priced, but the quality leaves a bit to be desired IMO.

For nametags, nametapes and Civil Air Patrol tapes I recommend www.1800nametape.com  Excellent quality and very fast service.

You should also try the thrift store at your local AFB or Airman's Attic if available.  The thrift store on Hanscom AFB is hard to find, but has a lot of great deals on uniforms components if you can find what you are looking for.

Fund raise, fund raise, fund rasie... Also, look to organizations in your area who might be able to provide grants etc... American Legion, VFW, AFA etc.

You should be taking advantage of the FCU program when ever possible... That's your best bet for the free uniforms... You should make every effort to recover these uniforms from cadets who leave the program... Also, look into DRMO sources.

IMO... You need to be enforcing the importance of the uniform and its proper wear... Don't allow members to wear incomplete/improper uniforms... Do not promote cadets who do not have/wear a complete uniform as required by CAPR 52-16.  Do not allow members who are "out of uniform" to participate in activities which require uniforms be worn per regulations.

Per CAPM 39-1 cadets are required to have the minimum basic service uniform... This is why the FCU ships the S/S Service Uniform combo and not BDU's   If a cadet can only afford one uniform it should be this one.

[abysmal]

Thanks for the suggestions and the tips.
Like I said, I am new to the position, and still very much in the learning curve.
Its just NOT the way it was when I was a cadet 25 years ago!

Bring me up to speed on DRMO Sources??

Sadly there is no local AFB.
The closest to us is about 200 miles away.

If I come down HARD on the "Out of Uniform" rule right now, I think I am going to have a LOT of Cadets coming in Civies.
My goal is to get from here to there in the next 30 days.
Slowly begin tightening down the rules and letting them know that they are being held accountable.
But to do that, I need to come up with some possible solutions to their problems.

[MIKE]

Bring me up to speed on DRMO Sources??

Talk to the wing supply people... Also, it's a DoD program so you should also be able to get info/assistance from the CAP Reserve Assistance Program Officers in your wing.... Wing should be able to put you in contact with the office if you don't have a CAP RAP Officer popping in on meetings once and awhile.

I've heard that stuff has been harder to come by via DRMO lately... The war on and all, but it doesn't hurt to ask around.

If I come down HARD on the "Out of Uniform" rule right now, I think I am going to have a LOT of Cadets coming in Civies.
My goal is to get from here to there in the next 30 days.
Slowly begin tightening down the rules and letting them know that they are being held accountable.
But to do that, I need to come up with some possible solutions to their problems.

That doesn't sound too bad... Read through CAPM 39-1 and CAPR 52-16 etc and understand what the requirements are with regard to uniforms... Present these to your people and make sure that they understand that this is the way it has to be from now on.

Having cadets not wear uniforms isn't really an option... Cadets have to wear uniforms and seniors who work directly with cadets have to wear uniforms, and they have to wear them properly.  In order to enforce standards you need to have consequences for non-compliance.  IMO, the first step is to enforce the CAPR 52-16 requirements for cadet uniforms... Before any of your cadets can be promoted to their next grade they must demonstrate proper wear of a complete S/S Service or BDU uniform.  No uniform, incomplete or improperly worn uniform equals no promotion.

[Pylon]

As Mike suggested, accountability and education are the best tools to use to get your cadets to wear the uniform properly.  However, if they don't have what they need to wear it properly, which is the situation you describe, then additional considerations should be made to help your cadets get the supplies they need.

Since your unit seems small, I would do the following:

Specify a night where the cadets will all bring in all of the uniform items they possess, whether they be CAP-issue or personally-owned.

Make a checklist that contains the basic required uniform (Short sleeved blues) and it's minimum components.  (We'd be glad to help you with that list, if need be)

Make a second sheet with a checklist of BDUs and other optional, but nice-to-have uniforms/components.

For each cadet, take a copy of the checklist and check off what they already have.  Highlight what they need to meet minimum requirements.

Tally up what components you need to get your squadron's cadets up to bare minimum; if you have the time, make a second list of what components and items you'll need to get your cadets to optimal or where you'd ideally like them to be as far as uniforms and equipment.

Once you have this information, you'll have a much better picture of what's needed, what's wanted, and how far you have to go.  In order to get the gear, I suggest first checking with DRMO (if you can) and secondly, contacting any local Reserve or Guard units.  I know that our local Air National Guard people often donate palates full of BDUs, blues, zoom suits, and whatever else to our local units to dig through.

Once you've contacted available sources, being fundraising.  If you have coporations in the area, you should draft a letter stating what CAP's Cadet Program is, what your particular uniform situation is, and how much money you'd need to correct your situation.  Many large corporations have programs in which they donate to local causes where they have franchises or branches. 

Once you've sent out grant and donation-seeking letters to large companies and corporations in the area, being a fundraising plan.  Perhaps do a car wash, or sell Entertainment/Dine-a-mate coupon books, ask for merchandise donations from local small businesses (again, by sending out letters) and hold a raffle or silent auction.  Your members can sell the raffle tickets or you can invite the general public to the silent auction.   Also contact local civic organizations with your letters seeking donations.  Many organizations donate to other local causes.  The Elks, for example, are required to give away two-thirds of all money they raise!  Check for local Elk lodges in the Yellow Pages.  There are endless ideas on how to fundraise for your squadron, but brainstorm with your Senior staff and put one or two plans into motion firmly.

With the money you raise, you should be able to place an order for the remaining items you need, and maybe even the items on your "Want/Ideal list" as well. 

Once you get the current cadets in your unit up-to-par, you may want to seriously consider adding a squadron membership fee to new recruits.  The new membership fee, which new recruits would pay directly to the squadron on top of their dues, should be an amount that could cover you ordering the cadet a full set of needed uniforms and insignia, after the FCU.  This way, you are guaranteeing that every new member will have to have all the needed items, because you'll be ordering it for them.  This also takes some burden off of them to figure it out on their own.

That's a lot to consider, but I hope the advice helps.  Keep us posted and updated on how everything goes! 

[abysmal]

Great minds think alike.
Last Monday I passed out a Uniform Inventory Checklist to the 19 Cadets that came. This is the result of that inventory.

=========

BDU UNIFORM..
Combat Boots, All Black, Leather.
4 Cadets are missing this item.

Black Socks
7 Cadets are missing this item.

BDU Blousing Bands
11 Cadets are missing this item.

BDU Pants
4 Cadets are missing this item.

Ultramarine Blue belt w/ black tip 
5 Cadets are missing this item.

Black open faced Belt buckle
7 Cadets are missing this item.

Black T-Shirt
6 Cadets are missing this item.

BDU Blouse
4 Cadets are missing this item.

Civil Air Patrol tape 
5 Cadets are missing this item.

Name Tape
6 Cadets are missing this item.

CAP Rank
6 Cadets are missing this item.

CAP Cutout
6 Cadets are missing this item.

Squadron 501 patch
6 Cadets are missing this item.

Arizona Wing Patch
4 Cadets are missing this item.

BDU Cap, (Air Force Round Style)
6 Cadets are missing this item.


BLUES UNIFORM
Dress Shoes, All Black
8 Cadets are missing this item.

Black Socks
6 Cadets are missing this item.

Blue Pants
8 Cadets are missing this item.

Ultramarine Blue belt w/ silver tip
6 Cadets are missing this item.

Silver Belt Buckle
7 Cadets are missing this item.

White T-Shirt, (V-Neck)
9 Cadets are missing this item.

Blue Shirt
7 Cadets are missing this item.

Name Tag
6 Cadets are missing this item.

Grade Insignia
7 Cadets are missing this item.

CAP Insignia
6 Cadets are missing this item.

Wing Patch
8 Cadets are missing this item.

Flight Cap
8 Cadets are missing this item.

Hat Device
7 Cadets are missing this item.


FTX Gear
Military Web Belt
12 Cadets are missing this item.

O/D Green Plastic Canteen 
13 Cadets are missing this item.

Canteen Cover
12 Cadets are missing this item.

LCE Suspenders
17 Cadets are missing this item.

[abysmal]

Once you have this information, you'll have a much better picture of what's needed, what's wanted, and how far you have to go.  In order to get the gear, I suggest first checking with DRMO (if you can) and secondly, contacting any local Reserve or Guard units.  I know that our local Air National Guard people often donate palates full of BDUs, blues, zoom suits, and whatever else to our local units to dig through.

Exposing my naivete, what the heck is DRMO?

As for National Guard, I don't think we have a base of any sort within 150-200 miles of our location. My understanding is that that is one of the things that has hampered this squadron for years. Do you think proximity to a local unit would be paramount in obtaining their support?

[MIKE]

Exposing my naivete, what the heck is DRMO?

Defense Reutilization Marketing Office

  Obtaining surplus equipment

  Question
  Is there a way to obtain surplus military equipment such as a portable stretcher from the CAP or other military organizations for use by unit level for training and E.S. operations?

  Answer
  Yes see Paragraph 1-5 (below) and Attachment 1 of CAPR 67-1 CAP Supply Regulation for details on property sources and the types of materials that may be requested. If a unit has a valid need for an item listed in a Federal Stock Group or Federal Stock Class not reflected at attachment 1, approval to acquire the item may be granted by the CAP-USAF LR/LG when the FX number is requested. If necessary, written justification may be required. Check with your LO and CAP-USAF LR/LG for additional details.

1-5. Property Sources.
a. Department of Defense (DoD). CAP is eligible to receive DoD excess property in accordance with the provisions of Public Law, DoD, and AF directives. This eligibility does not make transfer of such property mandatory. Property must be excess to the requirements of the DoD, available for transfer, CAP must have a valid requirement and not be on freeze. CAP must obtain approval from the LO and CAP-USAF LR/LG before receiving property from DoD. For example, if a CAP member found a radio that was excess to the base's needs, the CAP member should contact the LO and CAP-USAF LR/LG in writing, either by letter, fax or e-mail, requesting approval to receive the property. After approval, he/she could then receive the property and initiate the CAPF 37E. This is not considered a donated item. Any property owned by the DoD is purchased with appropriated dollars and when no longer needed will be returned to DRMO.
1) The equipment and supplies CAP may obtain from DoD excess or DRMO are contained at attachment 1. CAP will receive no aircraft, sailplanes, or hot air balloons that are in excess to the DoD. CAP will receive no vehicle, trailers, or vehicle parts that are in excess to the DoD without receiving HQ CAP-USAF/LGT authorization first.
2) If a unit has a valid need for an item listed in a Federal Stock Group or Federal Stock Class not reflected at attachment 1, approval to acquire the item may be granted by the CAP-USAF LR/LG when the FX number is requested. If necessary, written justification may be required.
3) Excess DoD property will never be acquired for the purpose of trade or resale.
4) Items acquired from DRMO will be received on a DD Form 1348-1A. The FX number on the DD Form 1348-1A will be entered in the CAP equipment database in the "Source" field. If the equipment was DoD excess, the CAPF 37E should show "DoD Excess" in the "Source" field and in the equipment database.

Also see CAPR 67-1 (E) Attachment 1 - List of FSCs that may be screened from DRMO.

Logistics Plans and Analysis: BDUs, clothing, and other textiles are now available to screen and withdraw from the Defense Reutilization Marketing Offices. Authorized members within CAP wings may screen in person or online at www.drms.dla.mil. Uniform/clothing items do not require justification or approval from NHQ/LGS, but remember to get only what you need. All other items require justification and approval from NHQ/LGS prior to withdrawal. Contact your State Director or NHQ/LGS with any questions on withdrawal procedures. kjones@cap.gov
Ref: Open Cockpit, February 2004.

[abysmal]

THANKS!

I just found that knowledgebase yesterday.
What a resource!

[CAPSGT]

The thing to remember about DRMO is that only authorized personnel may screen and pick up items at DRMO.  In MDWG, only the LO (State Director) and Wing Logistics Officer may do this.  Check local policy as far as this is concerned before you go about trying to get items from DRMO yourself.

MDWG HQ got rather annoyed when squadron logistics officers started trying to get items from DRMO on their own.  MD Wing HQ has a supply room with all of the stuff they get, which they in turn distribute to the squadrons.  Perhaps Arizona Wing operates a similar wing supply that you can draw from.

Mike Crockett

[abysmal]

The thing to remember about DRMO is that only authorized personnel may screen and pick up items at DRMO.  In MDWG, only the LO (State Director) and Wing Logistics Officer may do this.  Check local policy as far as this is concerned before you go about trying to get items from DRMO yourself.

MDWG HQ got rather annoyed when squadron logistics officers started trying to get items from DRMO on their own.  MD Wing HQ has a supply room with all of the stuff they get, which they in turn distribute to the squadrons.  Perhaps Arizona Wing operates a similar wing supply that you can draw from.

Mike Crockett

Don't have a clue at this point.
But at least I have a direction to go looking in for a change!~

[Major_Chuck]

DRMO's are a good starting point however don't expect to find a lot of 'good' uniform items.  The military put a freeze on some uniform items last year after some security concerns about our enemies obtaining surplus uniforms.  I believe the freeze was lifted but availability is poor at best.

Our Wing DRMO screening officer is also the Middle East Region DRMO screening officer just dropped a boat load of low quarters at Wing HQ.  This is great if your shoe size is 11 1/2 or 12.  Bottom line.  Don't expect much.

There are a lot of new regulations that just came out regarding the DRMO process and I suspect that alot is changing.  As I hear more I will let you know.

One of our units in the D.C. area has had better luck at the local thrift store on base.  Of course he has Bolling AFB and Andrews to draw upon.  You just have to keep checking back to see what comes up.

You'll have better luck outfitting your cadets with BDU uniforms rather than blues, but don't give up. 

Hope this helps some.

-CC

[abysmal]

One of our units in the D.C. area has had better luck at the local thrift store on base.  Of course he has Bolling AFB and Andrews to draw upon.  You just have to keep checking back to see what comes up.

You'll have better luck outfitting your cadets with BDU uniforms rather than blues, but don't give up. 

Time and again it seems that not being anywhere close to a base is a major hinderance in a lot of the things we try to do.
Proximity certainly seems to have its benefits..And we are about 200 miles from the closest location.

[The Admiral]

My advice would be to talk to the Wing supply Officer.  About the Nametapes and CAP tapes, most Police supply stores can custom make them for way cheap.  You can also coordinate with other squadrons.

[abysmal]

My advice would be to talk to the Wing supply Officer.  About the Nametapes and CAP tapes, most Police supply stores can custom make them for way cheap.  You can also coordinate with other squadrons.

Given enough time, I am sure I will once again re-learn all of this!!

[MIKE]

I never mentioned www.capmart.org when I posted my list of preferred sources for uniforms because current shipping rates can be a bit prohibitive... I recommend CAP Mart for the white on blue insignia such as grade, cut outs, wings and badges which are of better quality and easier to work with than those offered by www.thehock.com.

Last time I ordered a set of BDUs from the then CAP Bookstore they were of pretty good quality and competitively priced.  Was about $50 for trousers and blouse.  The shipping rates weren't nearly as high either.

[abysmal]

I never mentioned www.capmart.org when I posted my list of preferred sources for uniforms because current shipping rates be a bit prohibitive... I recommend CAP Mart for the white on blue insignia such as grade, cut outs, wings and badges which are of better quality and easier to work with than those offered by www.thehock.com.

Last time I ordered a set of BDUs from the then CAP Bookstore they were of pretty good quality and competitively priced.  Was about $50 for trousers and blouse.  The shipping rates weren't nearly as high either.

Place an order for a bunch of items last night with the HockShop.
Shipping was TINY as compared to CAPmart.
Really do NOT understand why CAPmart is charing so much.

[SarDragon]

The biggest factor is lack of volume. I asked the manager why prices and shipping were so high and was told that it was a combination of factors.

The first was specifically the low turnover they have there and the higher prices involved with small orders from the vendors.

The second was the packaging they use to prevent damage and loss in the shipping process. Small flimsy packages contribute to both, so they buy and use larger packages.

The third was the postal insurance rates. These have gone up some in the last couple of years.

In contrast, The Hock sells to a larger market group and seems to sell lower quality items. I personally no longer shop there for that reason.

[abysmal]

The biggest factor is lack of volume. I asked the manager why prices and shipping were so high and was told that it was a combination of factors.

The first was specifically the low turnover they have there and the higher prices involved with small orders from the vendors.

The second was the packaging they use to prevent damage and loss in the shipping process. Small flimsy packages contribute to both, so they buy and use larger packages.

The third was the postal insurance rates. These have gone up some in the last couple of years.

In contrast, The Hock sells to a larger market group and seems to sell lower quality items. I personally no longer shop there for that reason.

I certainly don't have a LOT of experience with Hock.
But from the two orders I sent in, thus far no problems.

[Pylon]

I agree that some items from The Hock may not be of the highest quality, but this is usually limited to cloth items (such as patches, nametapes, grade insignia, BDUs, etc).  The Hock is an excellent source, still, for all your needs of pins, cutouts, cadet grade, shoulder cords, blues, mini-medals, and plenty of other stuff.

Tom, the guy who runs the Hock, is a really nice guy and has been in the business of supplying CAP members for a long time.  If you call him up (phone # is the on their website), he'll go out of his way to make sure you get exactly what you need.

He has a flat shipping rate of $4, regardless of whether you buy $3,000 worth of supplies or one nameplate.  However, he is flexible on this, too.  If you are only ordering one little thing, like a few ribbons or some extra clutchbacks, call Tom and he'll lower the shipping rate accordingly.


CAPMart charges absolutely mind-blowingly high shipping rates, but their cloth item quality is better than The Hock.  You can get around the high shipping rates by getting your order togehter on paper and calling it in to CAPMart by phone.  When you get the rep. on the phone, you can haggle shipping prices.  They usually have to ask their manager, so if they tell you they can't reduce the shipping, ask them to talk to their manager.

Reminder:  Just a reminder, especially for those looking to help supply their cadets, all of your uniform purchases are tax-deductible because of CAP's status.  So if you donate $100 of your personal funds to buy some uniform stuff, that hundred bucks (with your order receipt, of course) is tax-deductible.  So are your dues, and other CAP-induced expenses.  See your tax advisor, if you have one.   

[abysmal]

I agree that some items from The Hock may not be of the highest quality, but this is usually limited to cloth items (such as patches, nametapes, grade insignia, BDUs, etc).  The Hock is an excellent source, still, for all your needs of pins, cutouts, cadet grade, shoulder cords, blues, mini-medals, and plenty of other stuff.

Tom, the guy who runs the Hock, is a really nice guy and has been in the business of supplying CAP members for a long time.  If you call him up (phone # is the on their website), he'll go out of his way to make sure you get exactly what you need.

He has a flat shipping rate of $4, regardless of whether you buy $3,000 worth of supplies or one nameplate.  However, he is flexible on this, too.  If you are only ordering one little thing, like a few ribbons or some extra clutchbacks, call Tom and he'll lower the shipping rate accordingly.


CAPMart charges absolutely mind-blowingly high shipping rates, but their cloth item quality is better than The Hock.  You can get around the high shipping rates by getting your order togehter on paper and calling it in to CAPMart by phone.  When you get the rep. on the phone, you can haggle shipping prices.  They usually have to ask their manager, so if they tell you they can't reduce the shipping, ask them to talk to their manager.

Reminder:  Just a reminder, especially for those looking to help supply their cadets, all of your uniform purchases are tax-deductible because of CAP's status.  So if you donate $100 of your personal funds to buy some uniform stuff, that hundred bucks (with your order receipt, of course) is tax-deductible.  So are your dues, and other CAP-induced expenses.  See your tax advisor, if you have one.   

Thanks!

[Slim]

As someone mentioned earlier, 1800nametape.com is a great source for CAP nametapes and service tapes.  I've used them as my source for years, for CAP, USCGAux and other needs, and have been more than satisfied with their quality and service.  Turn around time is usually about a week from the time I order until they show up in the mail.

The only thing I've noticed is that their nameplates (for blues) are sized differently than those from CAPMart, so you might want to go with those.  Another option (if you have an engraver in town) is to buy them blank, and have the name engraved locally.

1800nametape also has a package deal for CAP members, 3 each nametapes/branch tapes and 2 nameplates (available in both blue and gray) for $15.00.  A very reasonable price to me.

[abysmal]

As someone mentioned earlier, 1800nametape.com is a great source for CAP nametapes and service tapes.  I've used them as my source for years, for CAP, USCGAux and other needs, and have been more than satisfied with their quality and service.  Turn around time is usually about a week from the time I order until they show up in the mail.

The only thing I've noticed is that their nameplates (for blues) are sized differently than those from CAPMart, so you might want to go with those.  Another option (if you have an engraver in town) is to buy them blank, and have the name engraved locally.

1800nametape also has a package deal for CAP members, 3 each nametapes/branch tapes and 2 nameplates (available in both blue and gray) for $15.00.  A very reasonable price to me.

Nothing but GOOD suggestions all the way around!

[Yoda]

As someone mentioned earlier, 1800nametape.com is a great source for CAP nametapes and service tapes.  I've used them as my source for years, for CAP, USCGAux and other needs, and have been more than satisfied with their quality and service.  Turn around time is usually about a week from the time I order until they show up in the mail.

The only thing I've noticed is that their nameplates (for blues) are sized differently than those from CAPMart, so you might want to go with those.  Another option (if you have an engraver in town) is to buy them blank, and have the name engraved locally.

1800nametape also has a package deal for CAP members, 3 each nametapes/branch tapes and 2 nameplates (available in both blue and gray) for $15.00.  A very reasonable price to me.

I thought that CAPMart had some kind of hissy fit a while back over other businesses selling CAP things.  Or is this different because they don't specifically advertise themselves as selling Civil Air Patrol nametapes but just put on the tape whatever you say to?

[abysmal]

I thought that CAPMart had some kind of hissy fit a while back over other businesses selling CAP things.  Or is this different because they don't specifically advertise themselves as selling Civil Air Patrol nametapes but just put on the tape whatever you say to?

Would seem hard to see how they could have a "Hissy-Fit" when its a free market out there and anyone can sell. They could of course always try to do a BETTER job and win more customers back!

[Yoda]

I thought that CAPMart had some kind of hissy fit a while back over other businesses selling CAP things.  Or is this different because they don't specifically advertise themselves as selling Civil Air Patrol nametapes but just put on the tape whatever you say to?

Would seem hard to see how they could have a "Hissy-Fit" when its a free market out there and anyone can sell. They could of course always try to do a BETTER job and win more customers back!

IIRC, they were upset that others were using a copyrighted logo and seal when selling their products, and took legal action to ensure that those businesses could not do so anymore.  I vaguely paid attention when it came up in discussion, but it was more of an "Oh, that's interesting" type of thing for me than anything I really looked into.

[Major_Chuck]

My understanding is that CAPMart is operating at a loss, which by the comments would explain why.  CAPMart doesnot own the copyrights for the CAP Logo and Seals where as Civil Air Patrol does.  If CAP wanted to stop someone from selling items with CAP logos then they could take legal steps to do so. 

However, as it has been stated, it is a free market system and many vendors will sell their wares through many different sources.  If a CAP member can find a uniform item cheaper  through a outside commercial source then more power to them.

The danger is always cheaper quality imitations and being able to present a professional appearance.

Where Civil Air Patrol could make some money off of us 67,000 people is by licensing the logo to be used on items and then collecting some sort of royalty of the sale of the goods.

-CC

[Slim]

Where Civil Air Patrol could make some money off of us 67,000 people is by licensing the logo to be used on items and then collecting some sort of royalty of the sale of the goods.

-CC

Amen to that!

I first started using 1800nametape some time back in the mid '80s, when they were strictly mail-order through clothing sales.  I picked up an order slip, called them and told them what I needed, asked if they could do it (they hadn't done them for CAP before, and had just gotten a contract through AAFES).  Next time I went to clothing sales, there were new order forms, with a CAP option on them. 

I did pretty much the same thing with the CG Aux when I found that what their vendor sent wasn't quite what I expected.  Checked with Spur Cleaners (now known as 1800nametape.com), and sure enough, they sell Coast Guard stuff.  Emailed them with the info for branch tapes, dimensions and such for namte plates, and there they were.

I think the problem with the copyrights came from the fact that some of the vendors for leather nametags (for flight suits) were making them embroidered.  I've uses Williams & Williams for years also, they were one of the vendors for the AF when they had the ASNP on BDUs craze.  Their product is of a higher quality than those sold by CAPMart (or the bookstore).  Thats also why I bought  a Dymo label maker and covered "CAPT" with "MAJ" when I got promoted.

Anywho, when people started turning up with unauthorized embroidered nametags on their zoom bags, someone realized there was a problem.  Since the wings are a logo and copyrighted, that's where the problem came up.  I'm sure that this never would have happened if people would have stuck to the regulation and kept their leather tags.

Sorry, back on topic.

[Major_Chuck]

^{Thats also why I bought  a Dymo label maker and covered "CAPT" with "MAJ" when I got promoted.}

  Did the same thing.

-CC

[abysmal]

Tom, the guy who runs the Hock, is a really nice guy and has been in the business of supplying CAP members for a long time.  If you call him up (phone # is the on their website), he'll go out of his way to make sure you get exactly what you need.

Have to agree with you on Tom.
Another package arrived on time and just as ordered.
Very happy with him.

[Pylon]

Christopher,

How is it coming along with repairing your uniform situation?  Have you found success with a particular method?

I see you're ordering some things from Tom at The Hock and all.  Hopefully you're getting everything you needed! 

[MIKE]

[brag] I just got back from the thrift store at Hanscom AFB today, I picked up a nice Overcoat for $15 with the liner... They had loads of Overcoats and some All-Weather Coats... And I found Mess Dress that might have fit me for $55 that I didn't buy.

Another senior I went with was looking for officers Service Dress, but we couldn't find one that fit. [/brag]

[abysmal]

Christopher,

How is it coming along with repairing your uniform situation?  Have you found success with a particular method?

I see you're ordering some things from Tom at The Hock and all.  Hopefully you're getting everything you needed! 

Its still pretty grim at the moment.
A whole lot of cadets that do not have complete uniforms.
The Squadron Commander seems to have his sights on a stash of uniforms that we are hoping are going to materialize at an upcoming SarEx in 2 weeks. If they come through, life will be good. If not, its time to hit the fundraising bandwagon and start soliciting funds.

I am thinking of going after some corporate sponsorships from some folks I know in town.

[cmoore]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm still new to CAP...but I thought Cadets got free uniforms, and only the Senior Members had to buy them.  Is that not true?

[Pylon]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm still new to CAP...but I thought Cadets got free uniforms, and only the Senior Members had to buy them.  Is that not true?

The Free Cadet Uniform (FCU) program is not really a complete deal.  The cadet gets shirt, pants or skirt, belt, buckle, and hat.  They still need shoes and all their insignia and accessories.  In addition, they have to completely supply their BDU uniform at their own expense.  (Yes, regulatory-wise, cadets are not required to possess the BDUs but I'd like to see a cadet try and get through the program only in blues).

So, no, it's a myth.  CAP members really pay for their own uniforms, regardless of being a cadet or senior.  New cadets just get a good head-start.

Welcome to CAP and CAPTalk by the way!  Glad to have you here! 

[Major_Chuck]

Of course the next question is "no shoes?"

Last year to save money and keep the free uniform program in place shoes were cut from the list of uniform items, otherwise they probably would have scrapped the program.

[abysmal]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm still new to CAP...but I thought Cadets got free uniforms, and only the Senior Members had to buy them.  Is that not true?

S/M Moore, WELCOME.!!
I too am a relative "Newbie" and am doing my absolute best to SUCK every tidbit of information out of all the fine CAPers that hang out on this www site. I am sure you will find it just as usefull as I have..

[abysmal]

The squadron commander read an interesting note last night from the wing commander.
In short it said that we should expect to see a suddensurge in the availability of Used BDUs coming out of the Army & Marine Corps due to an accelerated roll out of the new digital Camoflauge pattern. Looks like sometime later this year we will have some BDUs to pass out to the Cadets after all.

[abysmal]

Update: Army/Marine Corps BDUs: Expect DRMO to receive a large surplus of woodland camouflage BDUs as the Army and Marine Corps transition to their new-style BDUs. Phase-out dates for the woodland style are Jan. 1, 2008, for the Army and Oct. 1, 2006, for the Marines.
Ref: EXs OPEN COCKPIT #15 Apr 2005 EXs OPEN COCKPIT

From CAP Logistics Plans and Analysis: BDUs, clothing, and other textiles are available to screen and withdraw from the Defense Reutilization Marketing Offices. Authorized members within CAP wings may screen in person or online at DRMS (Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service). Uniform/clothing items do not require justification or approval from NHQ/LGS, but remember to get only what you need. All other items require justification and approval from NHQ/LGS prior to withdrawal. Contact your State Director or NHQ/LGS with any questions on withdrawal procedures. K C Jones .
Open Cockpit, February 2004.

[MIKE]

A word of caution on accepting USMC and some USN Combat Utility Uniforms from DRMO.  The USMC blouses have Eagle Globe and Anchor insignia stenciled on the left pocket which is permenent... Wearing a CAP BDU with an EGA and USMC on the left pocket won't endear you to many Marines out there and in general just looks bad/sad.

Some USN utilities might have similar SEA BEES stencils on the left pocket also.

[abysmal]

Lovely.
Its been years since last I saw them and I had totally forgotten about that.

[md132]

I see alot of old USMC and USN uniforms alot here at APG.  The Marines may get offended if someone other than a Marine, Young Marine, or Marine ROTC/JROTC wears that uniform shirt.  You should check to see if it is only Army or Air Force BDU's.  There will soon be alot of Army BDU's on surplus because of the new uniforms being phased it.  Also if USAF approved the new uniform for them the same will happen.  According to a friend of mine, who is a first Sergeant for the USAF detachemnt here in APG, the Air Force is stll testing the new BDU's and may approve the design.  When that happens they will have a phase out date for the old BDU's.  Keep an eye on the news on www.af.mil for more info on the new uniforms

[arajca]

If you end up with USMC bdu bouses, see if the USMS logo can be covered with a patch (i.e. Comm or Safety). If so, make only those members who can wear those patches get those blouses. Otherwise, return the blouses.

[abysmal]

My Cadet uniform problems just got solved!!

Word has it that a LOAD of US Air Force BDUs just came into our local DRMO facility and we are heading down there with the CAP Van (less all of the seats) to load that sucker full up !! I guess we were able to place an advance order and they are pre-packing all of it for our pickup with the van.

The cadets should be in uniforms for years to come once our inventory has been replenished. And who knows, maybe we will get lucky and get some Blues items as well since the Wing DRMO liason is coming with us..

[Schmidty06]

You're NOT going to like what I'm about to say.  When you get this new load of BDUs, you need to devote a squadron night or some out of meeting time to sit down, empty out the boxes, inventory them, and throw out the ones that are unusable, ESPECIALLY since they came out of DRMO.  I suggest sorting them out by size and what not, and storing them in those big Rubbermade tubs.  Why?  Unless you have a unit supply cage/locker/etc, your spare uniforms will most likely end up being stored in somebody's basement or garage, and you don't want oil, gas, assorted auto liquids or a flooded basement to ruin your uniform supply.  Well worth the time and money to take the time to do this.  Also, they are most likely going to have all sorts of patches still attached to them, and some of them won't be usable once you take the patches off and put CAP ones on.  They'll either have some patch glue imbedded in them or simply fall apart when you try and take the patches off.

Good luck!

[abysmal]

You're NOT going to like what I'm about to say.  When you get this new load of BDUs, you need to devote a squadron night or some out of meeting time to sit down, empty out the boxes, inventory them, and throw out the ones that are unusable, ESPECIALLY since they came out of DRMO.  I suggest sorting them out by size and what not, and storing them in those big Rubbermade tubs.  Why?  Unless you have a unit supply cage/locker/etc, your spare uniforms will most likely end up being stored in somebody's basement or garage, and you don't want oil, gas, assorted auto liquids or a flooded basement to ruin your uniform supply.  Well worth the time and money to take the time to do this.  Also, they are most likely going to have all sorts of patches still attached to them, and some of them won't be usable once you take the patches off and put CAP ones on.  They'll either have some patch glue imbedded in them or simply fall apart when you try and take the patches off.

Good luck!

Your right on target and that is just what we are planning on doing!
And right now we ARE using the big rubber tubs to house everything we own in the flight hanger where we "live".

[Major_Chuck]

You did coordinate through your State Director or DMRO Screening Officer?

Our local DRMO's will not allow anyone but those authorized by letter from CAP-USAF LO's office to even go to the DRMO.

Hate to see you show up and then be turned away.

-CC

[abysmal]

You did coordinate through your State Director or DMRO Screening Officer?

Our local DRMO's will not allow anyone but those authorized by letter from CAP-USAF LO's office to even go to the DRMO.

Hate to see you show up and then be turned away.

-CC

Yes, we sure did.
Everything was done by the book..

[Major_Chuck]

Great!  I usually try to warn people about the coordination thing.  About ten years ago a wing was suspended from being able to access the DRMO because of CAP folks just showing up and trying to shop.  It took some time to smooth out the ruffled feathers so to speak.

Usually if we can jump through the hoops and play the DRMO game by their rules we don't have any problems.

[abysmal]

Great!  I usually try to warn people about the coordination thing.  About ten years ago a wing was suspended from being able to access the DRMO because of CAP folks just showing up and trying to shop.  It took some time to smooth out the ruffled feathers so to speak.

Usually if we can jump through the hoops and play the DRMO game by their rules we don't have any problems.

hehehe, Amazing how that works.
Make their life easy, and they will make your life easy as well!!

[abysmal]

FUNDRAISING...

Early on in this thread some of you suggested that I needed to get out there and start working on some FUNDRAISING.

Thought I would report back that we have had some GOOD success with that.
Have approached the local ROTARY club and they have given us preliminary approval for a $1,000 grant to be used for Cadet uniform components!!

That should solve 100% of our Cadet Uniform issues.!!

[Major_Chuck]

OUTSTANDING!

Now you need to treat them like they are your best friend and patron.  When you get your uniforms and your cadets outfitted you really need to do something special for them.  Cadets posting colors at one of their meetings, a certificate or plaque of appreciation.  Special recognition from your Wing or Squadron to them.  You never know, it might lead to more donations not only from them but their members as well.

Good Work!

-Chuck

FUNDRAISING...

Early on in this thread some of you suggested that I needed to get out there and start working on some FUNDRAISING.

Thought I would report back that we have had some GOOD success with that.
Have approached the local ROTARY club and they have given us preliminary approval for a $1,000 grant to be used for Cadet uniform components!!

That should solve 100% of our Cadet Uniform issues.!!

[BillB]

One way to get uniforms is to contact the nearest University that has an AFROTC program. At the end of each school year, many of their uniforms are surplus and returned to DRMO. But they are nornally willing to turn them over to CAP. I've found they would rather turn uniforms to CAP than return them to DRMO.I just picked up 2 boxes of BDUs, 1 very large box of boots, 2 boxes of belts, female tie-tabs, socks, and another box of shoes. Every so often Service coats are available. Only problem you'll find is many are large sizes.
In that case contact any high school that has a AFJROTC program. Here you'll get blues, shoes, flight caps (flight caps from university AFROTC are officer style for Senior members) blue windbreakers and belts.
I've found that very few uniforms from AFROTC or AFJROTC are unusable, in fact many look brand new.  It may, and I repeat may, be possible to get items for a color guard that may be surplus at either type ROTC unit.

[abysmal]

OUTSTANDING!

Now you need to treat them like they are your best friend and patron.  When you get your uniforms and your cadets outfitted you really need to do something special for them.  Cadets posting colors at one of their meetings, a certificate or plaque of appreciation.  Special recognition from your Wing or Squadron to them.  You never know, it might lead to more donations not only from them but their members as well.

Good Work!

-Chuck

Could not agree MORE with you on this.
And I let them know yesterday that we NEED to find a way to allow the Cadets to do something special for the Rotary Organization in return for their generosity!!

Hadn't thought about the plaque, but thats a great idea as well.

[abysmal]

One way to get uniforms is to contact the nearest University that has an AFROTC program. At the end of each school year, many of their uniforms are surplus and returned to DRMO. But they are nornally willing to turn them over to CAP. I've found they would rather turn uniforms to CAP than return them to DRMO.I just picked up 2 boxes of BDUs, 1 very large box of boots, 2 boxes of belts, female tie-tabs, socks, and another box of shoes. Every so often Service coats are available. Only problem you'll find is many are large sizes.
In that case contact any high school that has a AFJROTC program. Here you'll get blues, shoes, flight caps (flight caps from university AFROTC are officer style for Senior members) blue windbreakers and belts.
I've found that very few uniforms from AFROTC or AFJROTC are unusable, in fact many look brand new.  It may, and I repeat may, be possible to get items for a color guard that may be surplus at either type ROTC unit.

Problem for us is that we are out here right smack in the middle of NO WHERE.
There is NO college or university with in a couple hundred miles of us.

[Pylon]

Congratulations, Chris!

That is an excellent start to your unit's fundraising efforts. 

First off, you mentioned that it will cover outfitting your current cadets properly.  Might I recommend then that, unless you have any other pressing, Cadet Programs related financial needs, you set aside the remaining money in a fund designed to acquire uniform components for your unit's members.   This will help you if and when you run into similar problems in the future with cadets not being able to purchase the needed uniform supplies.

Secondly, I agree with Major Chuck on this one.  You must certainly work out some sort of special recognition for this rotary club.  I liked the Major's ideas of posting the colors at one of their meetings and presenting a plaque.  A nice plaque with the CAP seal on it can be had from CAPMart or the Hock for reasonable prices - well worth it when you consider the amount of money you received (and opening up possibilities for future donations, as well).

Good luck and congrats on the grant!  Keep up your fundraising efforts, however, as a unit can always use more funding!

[dwb]

Reminder:  Just a reminder, especially for those looking to help supply their cadets, all of your uniform purchases are tax-deductible because of CAP's status.  So if you donate $100 of your personal funds to buy some uniform stuff, that hundred bucks (with your order receipt, of course) is tax-deductible.  So are your dues, and other CAP-induced expenses.  See your tax advisor, if you have one.   

One little caveat, for all those cadets whose eyes just widened at the thought of getting more money in their tax return...

CAP expenses are only deductable if you choose to itemize your deductions.  That means filling out a 1040 with Schedule A.  If you're using 1040A, 1040EZ, or some other such thing, this does not apply.

Normally, you only itemize when you're a homeowner, because the amount you pay in mortgage interest and property taxes exceeds the standard deduction.

Edited to add: I could swear Kieloch had actually said what I quoted him as saying...

Edited again: never mind, I got confused and quoted an old post. 

[abysmal]

Congratulations, Chris!

That is an excellent start to your unit's fundraising efforts. 

Now I suppose its time to go looking for "Matching Funds"...

[abysmal]

Follow Up...

The Rotary Club has informed us that we have been formally approved for the contribution and that we will get a check in 2 weeks time.

One of the Rotarians is a commercial electrician and he has offred to come out to our hanger at the airport where we meet  and install a set of flood lights so the cadets will have some light on the tarmac where we hold our opening and closing formations as well as do all of our drill. LIGHT at night, What a Concept!!

And another has offered to come into the hanger and put down a new Epoxy Floor!

These guys have turned into a GOLD MINE of support !!