Earhart Society?

[Pylon]

So what are everyone's thoughts on the idea of an Earhart Society, for those that made it at least that far in the Cadet Program since the Award's inception.

There is a much larger number of former cadets who received their Earhart but never quite made it to Eaker nor Spaatz.  I've seen ideas tossed around for similar fraternal organizations and was toying with the idea myself.

So as not to possibly encourage cadets to stagnate at the Earhart award, seeing it as "good enough," I was also thinking such a group ought to consider allowing active, card-carrying membership only once the Earhart recipient becomes either a Senior Member or turns 21.

I thought it was a neat idea (but maybe that's because I only went as far as my Earhart), but I was wondering what others -- both cadets, former cadets, and non-former-cadet-Senior-Members thought of the idea.  And in particular, what Spaatzen thought of it.

Discuss. 

[fyrfitrmedic]

 Interesting idea...

There was an Eaker Association before it petered out.

Why not something for Earhart recipients?

[MIKE]

Whats the point of the society?  What sort of purpose would it serve... Compared to the Spaatz Association?

I mean... It seems to me that the ICEA was just a play on the didn't quite make it to Spaatz association, and 'cause it was a new award at the time... Wasn't it mostly just done for fun or as sort of a joke?

The Spaatz Association is there 'cause well it's at the top of the heap... As we all know Spaatzen are special. 

I wouldn't want something that came across as the "I actually made it past the Mitchell, but didn't go for Eaker or Spaatz association."  Do we really need associations to recognize milestone awards other than Spaatz?

Earhart # 11462

[Pace]

I would also be interested in knowing the purpose and benefit of creating such a society.  If it's an attempt to pool the resources of cadet officers once they turn senior member (and use this as a retention tool to keep them from leaving after their cadet days are over), then why not have something to the effect of a Cadet Officers Association.  Make it available to anyone at the minimum age of 21 who has achieved at least the Mitchell Award.  Maybe have some sort of membership fee for membership cards and a scholarship available to current cadet officers (hopefully to help spread the name of the organization real fast).

The problem I foresee is who is going to cover the organization financially and logistically.  Not even counting the unnumbered awards, there is somewhere in the range of 53,000 Mitchell recipients.  If you want to narrow it down a bit, there's about 13,000 Earhart recipients.  To narrow it even more, there's about 1,500 Eaker recipients.  What's more, most people that earn these awards are long gone from CAP by the time they're 21 which means they probably won't join the group.

Still, I do like the idea if it can be pulled off.

Eaker # 1466

[fyrfitrmedic]

Whats the point of the society?  What sort of purpose would it serve... Compared to the Spaatz Association?

I mean... It seems to me that the ICEA was just a play on the didn't quite make it to Spaatz association, and 'cause it was a new award at the time... Wasn't it mostly just done for fun or as sort of a joke?

There was some humor involved but there were serious attempts at organization a  la the Spaatz Association.

[vandy]

I proposed something similar, except for the Mitchell Award, on cadetstuff. Check out that discussion. I think it would be a good idea.

[Earhart1971]

Earhart Association! Great Idea!

It doesn't take much to start, just someone to design a Website, and post the address.

The Spaatz people are too few and frankly BORING.

Most the Spaatz Cadets I knew, the Spaatz was the most exciting thing they did in their life and they started down from there, (only Kidding).

But I would suggest somebody get busy with the Web Design.

[Earhart1971]

By the way if a few hundred email me I will start the site myself.

[shorning]

Earhart Association! Great Idea!

It doesn't take much to start, just someone to design a Website, and post the address.

And what would the purpose of the society be?  Should we setup societies for all the milestone awards?  Why choose a milestone that's in the middle of the cadet progression without societies for the others?

[pixelwonk]

By the way if a few hundred email me I will start the site myself.

I register domains.  I'll get you a great deal on www.stoppedshort.org

(only Kidding).

[Earhart1971]

Earhart Association! Great Idea!

It doesn't take much to start, just someone to design a Website, and post the address.

And what would the purpose of the society be?  Should we setup societies for all the milestone awards?  Why choose a milestone that's in the middle of the cadet progression without societies for the others?

The purpose to stay in touch.

I would love to run into my fellow cadets from 1969 to 1974, and find out what they are doing now.

By the way in my era, the Earhart was the second highest award in CAP, I know CAP started playing with the Awards again.

Why they decided to Eaker, what to encourage people to stay as a Senior or something?

The Spaatz to me is the Highest Award, and they really in a way devalued the Spaatz by doing this.

Another thing, there are a lot of ex Cadets out there that just might need to come back to CAP.

All the numbers are down, from my time, less Cadets, less Seniors, less Airplanes, Less Ground Teams, more fear of lawsuits.

Thats another story for another thread though.

[shorning]

Earhart Association! Great Idea!

It doesn't take much to start, just someone to design a Website, and post the address.

And what would the purpose of the society be?  Should we setup societies for all the milestone awards?  Why choose a milestone that's in the middle of the cadet progression without societies for the others?

The purpose to stay in touch.

I would love to run into my fellow cadets from 1969 to 1974, and find out what they are doing now.

By the way in my era, the Earhart was the second highest award in CAP, I know CAP started playing with the Awards again.

That's weird, I'm a former Phase IV (think Eaker) cadet and I've had no trouble staying in touch with people without a society.  I've even met other Phase IV/Eaker cadets with out a society. 

My point is, do you really need a society just to stay in touch?  If there is going to be a society, it should be more than a loose gathering of individuals.  Otherwise, it will never last.

[BillB]

An Earhart Society makes no sense. In the first place, chances are you only know Earhart winners from your Wing. And how many cadets that went though encampments or other activities you know, that didn't advance to the Earhart.
A better idea is what former Florida cadets did. They started a CAP Alumni group of cadets from the 1960's and 70's. They have held two reunions so far. Every person there knew everyone else because they had been to activities together at some time during their CAP career. Included in the group were two Spaatz holders, three former Wing Commanders and one former National Commander. People came from several states to attend and meet old friends.
Limiting a Society to one group of milestone winners doesn't allow that much interaction because most people would have no idea who anyone else was from different Wings. It's better to start a group of former cadets from a specific time frame and Wing. These would be people you know.

[Nathan]

As a recent Earhart recepient (November), I really don't think that an Earhart society is necessary. Even the Eaker you are forced to take a specialized test or attend COS/RCLS at some point to achieve. The Earhart is simply waiting around and promoting, and anyone who is in the program long enough and cares even a little about getting the award can get it. That's why the Spaatz stands out. Not everyone who wants it can get it.

Earhart may be the main stopping point for many cadets, true. However, adding an "association" isn't going to help that problem any. That'll just convince Earhart cadets even more that there really isn't a point in going on, because they're part of an association, may have a cool challenge coin, etc.

Leave the Spaatz association as the final reward.

[alexalvarez]

The Earhart Society is an interesting concept. I received the Earhart in 1967 but I lost the certificate. I do not remember if the certificate had a number. My old cadet records do show that I received the Earhart in 1967 but there is no number. CAP Knowledgebase stated that HQ would not have a record of my Earhart. Also does anyone remember the Frank Borman Award. I guess old age is setting in and I do not recall all the cadet awards.

[AlphaSigOU]

The Frank Borman Falcon Award (for those young pups scratching their heads and thinking WTF?  ) was awarded to Spaatz award recipients 'who took dynamic steps to become aerospace leaders'. (Whatever the hell that means, I have no idea, as I don't even remember what the specific requirements for the award were.)

IIRC, it was an even more exclusive club than Spaatzen, as few were awarded (probably less than 500 and maybe fewer - the exact number is unknown, as the Falcon records were reportedly lost in the great flood of 1987 at Maxwell, along with any numerical records of older Earhart and Mitchell awards). The award was retired in 1979.

I don't know where National HQ took up with numbering when they computerized their records, though.

Mitchell and Earhart award certificates were unnumbered until about 1980, when numbering began at 0001 for both. Mitchell count so far is well above 50,000 and Earhart at around 11,000. The Eaker Award didn't exist in those days, and the Wright Brothers Award was just an achievement ribbon.

Glad I kept my Mitchell and Earhart award certificates... got my old 1st Lt grade reinstated that way.

[AlphaSigOU]

I'd rather see a 'CAP Cadet Officer Society' or a 'Former CAP Cadet Association' instead of a milestone award specific organization. The Spaatzen already have their association - and a very good one at that.

Coming back to CAP, there's quite a few personalities who are now in the higher ranks of the senior program who were cadets around the same time I was. Former SER/CC Col. Sharkey is one of 'em - I didn't know him personally, but chances were we ran into each other at some major Florida Wing activity.

[alexalvarez]

Thanks for the information on the Frank Borman Falcon Award and the Earhart Award. I was not aware that the numbering of the certificates started in the 80's.

[AlphaSigOU]

Thanks for the information on the Frank Borman Falcon Award and the Earhart Award. I was not aware that the numbering of the certificates started in the 80's.

No problem, Padre... if any of your CAP travels take you up to the DFW area (especially ADS) stop on by...

[alexalvarez]

Thanks for the invitation. I will take you up on that when I am up there visiting my daughters in big D. God Bless.

[merlin0085]

As a member of TSA, I ask myself why that organization really exists. They claim two things. First they claim that they are a way to "focus the talents and experience of Spaatz Award recipients, now scattered across a variety of civilian and military positions of responsibility" and secondly, the organization provides aviation scholarships to CAP cadets. They succeed pretty well in the scholarship mission, and not well at all in the first.

Would an Earhart association do anything different, would it be productive, or would it just be another "look at what I did" society. Would the society be people who just got their earhart and never had a chance to move on afterwards, or would it be everyone who ever got their Earhart (which, theoretically, includes every member of TSA)?

I'm by no means belittling the Earhart award, I know how much work you did to get there. I just don't see the point of the Spaatz association, so why create another worthless body... I mean really we don't want to turn into the UN or anything, do we?

[Earhart1971]

I have the obnoxious opinion that, there are two few Spaatz Award Recipients to worry about, about 1,500 maybe. They are JUST TOO ELITE.
TOO FEW, and I don't see that many after the Cadet Program working as Seniors in CAP, but more power to them for the tiny Organization they have.

Now, Earharts are more numerous, and I would not mind promoting a larger Org, how many Earharts, 5000 maybe?

But I would like it just for the CLASS REUNION type thing.

Somebody find out the size the our Earhart population, and also, there are just more Earharts out there STILL IN CAP.

[shorning]

Somebody find out the size the our Earhart population, and also, there are just more Earharts out there STILL IN CAP.

Sounds like you just volunteered there, chief.  You've been one of the biggest proponents of this idea, sounds like you're the logical choice.  You've come up with several ideas in the past that you wanted someone else to act on.  Seems like it's right up your ally.

[Nathan]

Now, Earharts are more numerous, and I would not mind promoting a larger Org, how many Earharts, 5000 maybe?

Being able to have a big organization does not justify having the organization in the first place.

The problem that I see in a LOT of squadrons is that awards like the Earhart are simply given out, especially if the squadron is not regs-savvy. I've met Eaker cadets who managed to get to where they were without ever turning in an SDA, without ever taking leadership tests, etc. The Spaatz, on the other hand, is given by a USAF official, and chances are that he or she is not going to be just handing such an award away.

In addition, the Earhart was already an easy test, and now it's probably going to be made EASIER by the new CAPR 52-16 that's coming in that's removing the AE portion. Great.

In other words, the Earhart itself is not difficult to earn. If you want it, you'll get it. The only thing that stops cadets from achieving the Earhart is motivation, which can sometimes be blamed on the squadron and/or home life as well. The Spaatz is different in that even those who want it still don't have a guarenteed chance of earning it through a hundred retakes.

My vote is no for an Earhart association. Eaker... maybe, considering that they have gone as far in the program as they can without the AF getting involved, but I still would be recluctant about it. Let the Spaatzites have their organization, and leave it at that.

C/Capt Nathan Scalia
Earhart 13281

[ZigZag911]

The Earhart Society is an interesting concept. I received the Earhart in 1967 but I lost the certificate. I do not remember if the certificate had a number. My old cadet records do show that I received the Earhart in 1967 but there is no number. CAP Knowledgebase stated that HQ would not have a record of my Earhart. Also does anyone remember the Frank Borman Award. I guess old age is setting in and I do not recall all the cadet awards.

As best I recall, the requirements were:

1) earn Spaatz
2) enlist in USAF (or Reserve or Air Guard), join AFROTC (I think the 'senior' course), receive an appointment to AF Academy, or receive an Air Force commission

[capchiro]

Perhaps in order to have a large group of people that have dropped out/completed/retired/whatever from CAP, we should start a Curry Society.  At least we could poll them and find out why they never renewed and moved to the lofty heights of Arnold, Wright, etc.  (All in fun, but it does make one wonder why so many cadets don't get whatever they are looking for to stay).   

[AlphaSigOU]

Wright Brothers Award: About 3000 awarded (numbered since inception). [Edit: it's now at about 4600.]
Mitchell Award: Over 55,000, not counting the unnumbered awards earned from 1964-1980. (Probably about another 5000-10,000 if you add the unnumbered.)
Earhart Award: Over 14,000, not counting the unnumbered awards earned from 1964-1980. (Probably about another 2500-5000 if you add the unnumbered.)
Eaker Award: About 2700, not counting any unnumbered retroactive awards from former cadets who completed Phase IV prior to the award's inception.
Spaatz Award: About 1600. Numbered since the beginning.
Falcon Award: About 200-300, some were numbered, others were not.

As I've mentioned in an earlier post on this thread, I would rather see an Association of Former CAP Cadets rather than restrict it to a specific milestone award (except for the Spaatz Association.)

Unfortunately, WIWAC (When I Was A Cadet (pronounced 'wy-wack'), the mantra uttered by nearly every CAP senior member who did time as a cadet) just doesn't translate well for an official acronym. 

[AlphaSigOU]

The Earhart Society is an interesting concept. I received the Earhart in 1967 but I lost the certificate. I do not remember if the certificate had a number. My old cadet records do show that I received the Earhart in 1967 but there is no number. CAP Knowledgebase stated that HQ would not have a record of my Earhart. Also does anyone remember the Frank Borman Award. I guess old age is setting in and I do not recall all the cadet awards.

As best I recall, the requirements were:

1) earn Spaatz
2) enlist in USAF (or Reserve or Air Guard), join AFROTC (I think the 'senior' course), receive an appointment to AF Academy, or receive an Air Force commission

More info on the Frank Borman Falcon Award: http://home.carolina.rr.com/swauste/

[ZigZag911]

I concur with Lt Conway, if anything is done, it should be something general for former cadets...even West Point's 'alumni' association is not limited to graduates! They take 'Graduates & Former Cadets'.

Something open to the general ex-cadet populace might actually have some traction (at least in some areas) regarding getting former folks back as seniors, enhance fund raising, and forge ties with the larger community.

[BillB]

In Florida there is a CAP Cadet Alumni group of the 1960's and 70's cadets. But one thing I notice, many former cadets think the cadet program started in the 1960's as far as Mitchell, Earhart and Spaatz goes. They seem to indicate that prior to the Mitchell, there was no cadet program training.
I've shown several Spaatz cadets the cadet training program prior to Jack Sorensoons program which is still basically in effect. They have looked at the training materials and all have said it was much tougher than the program they earned their Spaatz in. For example, the old program required cadets to learn morse code, get an advanced Red Cross First Aid certification. A 1950's cadet that earned the Cadet Certificate of Proficiency with two clasps has accomplished more in the program than what is in the current Spaatz tests. (except for PT requirements).
And there are still many members in CAP that are active that earned the Cadet COP. So the idea of a CAP Cadet Alumni includes those members that don't have a Mitchell or Earhart or Spaatz but have completed the cadet program that existed at the time.

[AlphaSigOU]

In Florida there is a CAP Cadet Alumni group of the 1960's and 70's cadets. But one thing I notice, many former cadets think the cadet program started in the 1960's as far as Mitchell, Earhart and Spaatz goes. They seem to indicate that prior to the Mitchell, there was no cadet program training.
I've shown several Spaatz cadets the cadet training program prior to Jack Sorensoons program which is still basically in effect. They have looked at the training materials and all have said it was much tougher than the program they earned their Spaatz in. For example, the old program required cadets to learn morse code, get an advanced Red Cross First Aid certification. A 1950's cadet that earned the Cadet Certificate of Proficiency with two clasps has accomplished more in the program than what is in the current Spaatz tests. (except for PT requirements).
And there are still many members in CAP that are active that earned the Cadet COP. So the idea of a CAP Cadet Alumni includes those members that don't have a Mitchell or Earhart or Spaatz but have completed the cadet program that existed at the time.

My bad for not including the Cadet COP. Sorry 'bout that, Col. Breeze. By all means they should be included in any plans for a former CAP Cadet association, if any gets off the ground.

Is there any info on the requirements for the old Cadet COP?

[AlphaSigOU]

In addition, the Earhart was already an easy test, and now it's probably going to be made EASIER by the new CAPR 52-16 that's coming in that's removing the AE portion. Great.

Back in my day WIWAC, the Mitchell Award exam was 100 questions, closed-book aerospace, covering material from the old Your Aerospace World textbook. The Earhart test was 100-questions, closed book leadership, with questions from both Volume I and Volume II of the old Leadership Laboratory manual, up to the chapter that corresponded with Achievement 11.

[The Leev]

I think an Earhart Society is fine. It's all about connecting with people with similar histories and shared values. My formative years spent as a cadet have served me well beyond my CAP cadet career. Every CAP story is unique and has nothing to do with achieving more or less that others. I went a far as possible in my wing .... and had to leave the program before the Spaatz was offered to me. Today,  the CAP looks a lot different to me than what I remember .... like everything else from those years. Earhart #225, 5 May '65.   

[SarDragon]

WOW! That might be a new necro record! 2439 days!