Squadron names vs numbers

[Stonewall]

3 in Virginia
1 in Maryland
1 in DC

2 Middle School programs (which I don't count)

When I first got to DC Wing in late 1992, there were 3 in VA, 3 in MD and 3 in DC.  Looks like the 3 on the VA side (my side) is doing well.

http://natcapwg.cap.gov/units

Boy...sounds like that wing shouldn't even exist.  There is only 1 squadron in the geographical boundaries of DC?  Using that logic there is better justification for a New York State Wing and a New York City Wing.

I've often wondered why NATCAP exists myself.  But, from what I understand there is some sort of reason for its existence.  May even be political, I don't have a clue.  I will say this. I loved being in that wing.  To me, it was so easy to enjoy my experience.   There wasn't more than a 45 minute drive between any two squadrons.  Even my last squadron, Fairfax (VA) and Andrews (MD).  Best of all, the Wing HQ was litterally centrally located, smack dab in the middle of the wing.  Again, no one had to fly to Wing HQ or  spend a whole day to get to commander's call.  Saved us a lot of time.

As an example, I'm still battling getting a wing call sign in FL.  Been going on for months.  In DC, you'd drive up to Wing HQ and leave with it in hand.

The other thing is Virginia Wing and their dealings with the state (commonwealth) as far as Ground SAR goes.  VA has state requirements for SAR; you have to be 16 and be FTM (Field Team Member) qualified by the state.  FTL for to lead a team.  So, first you'd have to get CAP Ground Qual'd, then get state, and yes, it cost money and a lot of time.  BUT, if you were NATCAP, you were considered "mutual aid" so you didn't have to meet their state standards.  I've been on missions all over Maryland and all over Virginia.  It was great.

Every squadron in NATCAP had a van, not to mention a couple at wing hq we could borrow if necessary.  The wing had 2 planes, more than enough for everyone to share.  And, we had tons of military bases at our disposal.  We had permanent keys to Ft. Belvoir's training areas.  It was awesome. 

But yes, I like Jimmy's idea of wings having to meet certain criteria to be a "wing".  NATCAP's CC and FLWG's CC have the same status and rank, but wing size is definitely one major difference.  One other difference though, is the DCWG CC, on a daily basis almost, has to rub shoulders with lots of stars, congressmen, and other bigwigs.  I mean, Wing HQ is the same place 4-stars live, meet, work, and play.  A major Intel Agency is on base.  And of course, it's minutes from Andrews AFB.  You really do need to know the ins and outs of DC to be DCWG CC, but thats just my opinion.

[SARMedTech]

This is a little off topic but bothers me as someone who has worked as a private tutor, substitute teacher, special education assistant...

Under the Subordinate Squadrons FOR the Capital Wing its list the middle school site and I couldnt exactly find my way into their CAP info because I was so...bothered...about the fact that another school, in one of the most violent areas in the country puts a map of its school on its website. Its like an invitation to stranger danger. "In this room are the kindergartners...they will panic and run all over so they will the easiest to harm." Perhaps my dual Masters in Emergency Management and Homeland Security is making me hypersensitive, but why dont they just go all out and publish the times the children will be out side, when they are moving from class to class and, oh yeah, lets issue a identilock key card to every freaking weirdo within a 10 mile radius.

Sorry. I recently attended a conference on schools as targets for mass casualty events and its got me a little hepped up.

Sorry for the bump there.

[Stonewall]

I was so...bothered...about the fact that another school, in one of the most violent areas in the country puts a map of its school on its website. Its like an invitation to stranger danger. "In this room are the kindergartners...they will panic and run all over so they will the easiest to harm."

I hear ya clickin' big chickin.  But don't get your Under Armor Boxer Briefs in a bunch.  Historically, the school shootings are happening outside the "inner city" blocks and more so in affluent or rural areas.  The killings in DC are of the cowards type, drive-by shootings and drug or gang related.  Not saying it doesn't or won't happen, and there is no excuse for giving the bad guys any edge over the good guys, but I wouldn't expect the next school shooting to happen in DC.  Maybe on the corner, near the school where someone ripped off their favorite pimp or drug dealer.
-------

WHoA!!!  Huge topic drift.  Lets start another thread if this discussion needs to go any further.  Sorry, FlyGuy.

[MIKE]

Would you like to always say "Lt Col Frank Pocher Minute Man Squadron"? 

No, 59th Cadet Squadron would be way better  , since the unit isn't even at Minute Man anymore and you don't have to change it if you move again.  I don't care for Memorial squadron names, no offense intended. JMHO.

[Cobra1597]

Would you like to always say "Lt Col Frank Pocher Minute Man Squadron"? 

No, 59th Cadet Squadron would be way better  , since the unit isn't even at Minute Man anymore and you don't have to change it if you move again.  I don't care for Memorial squadron names, no offense intended. JMHO.

Well, we still have at least one person in the squadron leadership who knew Lt Col Pocher, and one of the other members (me) joined not long after he died and has had the idea of remembering him instilled for 10 years since before he was a teenager. I don't mind having it there, but you see where my bias is.

Personally, I like keeping the "Minute Man" part despite not being at "Minute Man Airfield" anymore, since we are in the neck of the woods where the Revolutionary Minute Men fought their first battles. The fact the CAP has been compared to the Minute Men of old, it always made me proud to be in the squadron with that name.

Also, as far as I know, when the previous incarnation of this squadron was originally at Marlboro Airport (before they disbanded for who knows how many years), they were still called "Minute Man" AFAIK.

I like names more than numbers. I would not mind using the numbers more on the paperwork, it is very annoying trying to fit our squadron name whenever I am writing a 2A by hand, but when I am talking to other people in the Wing I'd rather be talking about Minute Man and Hanscom than 59th and 43rd.

To each their own.

[Flying Pig]

I dont know if this question has been asked before or not.

But why is it in the last five years or so, when people refer to their squadrons, they ivee numbers instead of the actual name of the squadron? We didnt used to do this and I dont really like it.

I wanted to visit this members unit onetime and I asked him what unit he was in. He told me GA-129. I had no idea if that was in Atlanta or if it was in Savannah which is 300 miles away.

Isnt it easier just to say Savannah Composite Squadron. that way the person knows exactly what and where you are talking about. I understand the purpose for having numbers but in conversation I think its easier to tell the person the name of your unit to help them out.

It must be where your at.  In my almost 15 years in CAP, I have rarely heard names.  Only numbers.

[RiverAux]

There are only a couple of states that have officially changed to numbers "58th Composite Squadron".  All the rest go with "Happy Valley Composite Squadron".  Either way, all of them have the unique alphanumeric identifier. 

[RogueLeader]

I've been in three squadrons, in three regions, and all have gone by both number and name:

MER-WV-049  Wheeling Composite
NCR-IA-043 Dubuque Composite
SWR-OK-115  Comanche Eagles Composite

[Stonewall]

All squadrons have a number designator, but I think the original point of this thread was "numbered squadrons" vs "names".

Fairfax Composite Squadron is designated by a unit charter number as:  MER-DC-053

But they're talking about something like "383rd Composite Squadron" , even though the unit charter number is MER-NC-123.

[RogueLeader]

Roger.

[mikeylikey]

So lets take the numbers from the charter and put it together with the type of Squadron.  EXAMPLE: NER-MA-123, Anytown Composite SQD  BECOMES
123rd Composite SQD.

If that is too confusing, add the state in there:  123rd Massachusetts Composite SQD. 

Sounds better than " The Anytown, Joe E Jackson Memorial Composite Squadron"
Sure beats "NER-MA-123"

[MIKE]

Don't care for identifying the state in that manner.  I suppose you could go back to the old style charter number so each is unique.

19022nd Cadet Squadron where 19 was the old wing idenifier for MA, therefore MA could be the 19th Wing.  5 digits is a bit much though... Unless you want to redo charter number so that there is only one 22nd unit in the nation.

[scooter]

Gosh just think if there was some standardization to the squadron naming thing, we couldn't have this interesting conversation. Suppose CAP followed the AF lead and named squadrons by their function. For example the 162nd CAPCS for the 162 Composite or Cadet Squadron. The nick name could then be the "good guys" or whatever. For senior squadrons the 162nd CAPSS. Just my 2 cents worth. No one wants to rewrite regs.

[Camas]

Talk about confusing.  Look at what they do in CAWG.  Squadron 80 is really PCR-CA-110.  I understand there are many others that use an identical system.

[brasda91]

Well anyone here remember when SQD's used 5 numbers.

Heck I still consider that my charter number.   

[MIKE]

162nd CAPSS   Think about that for a second, CAP SS... I'm having flashbacks of the NHWG Drill Team again, and last weeks episode of Weaponology.

The Coast Guard Auxiliary seems to be pretty much number centric. (Even though units are still named... mostly for geographic areas.)  Where the division (group) number is first followed by the flotilla (squadron) number, and then the district (regionish).  11 1NR = Division 1 Flotilla 1 1st District Northern Region or simply Flotilla 11.  For division or flotilla numbers 10 or greater it's separated by a -.  10-2 1NR.

[flyguy06]

All squadrons have a number designator, but I think the original point of this thread was "numbered squadrons" vs "names".

Fairfax Composite Squadron is designated by a unit charter number as:  MER-DC-053

But they're talking about something like "383rd Composite Squadron" , even though the unit charter number is MER-NC-123.

Yes, that was the original point of my question.

I was asking why do we "refer" to our unit in conversation as a number. I realize that every unit in CAP has a charter number. But if I am talking with someone and ask them what unit they ar ein, if they say "I;m in the 435th" That really doent tell me anything. If they say "I'm in Atlanta Cadet Squadron" That helps me understand a little more.

A unit named after a person such as the Ben O. Davis Cadet Squadron is a differant thing altogether/

[brasda91]

All squadrons have a number designator, but I think the original point of this thread was "numbered squadrons" vs "names".

Fairfax Composite Squadron is designated by a unit charter number as:  MER-DC-053

But they're talking about something like "383rd Composite Squadron" , even though the unit charter number is MER-NC-123.

Yes, that was the original point of my question.

I was asking why do we "refer" to our unit in conversation as a number. I realize that every unit in CAP has a charter number. But if I am talking with someone and ask them what unit they ar ein, if they say "I;m in the 435th" That really doent tell me anything. If they say "I'm in Atlanta Cadet Squadron" That helps me understand a little more.

A unit named after a person such as the Ben O. Davis Cadet Squadron is a differant thing altogether/

When I'm talking with people around town, media, prospects, etc. I usually refer to our squadron as the "Paducah Civil Air Patrol" vs. our actual name of "Paducah Composite Squadron".  The name "Paducah Composite Squadron" doesn't really tell someone what organization we belong to.  "Civil Air Patrol" is becoming more of a household name, at least in my part of the world, due to the Fosset search and a local (1hr from here) airplane crash.  It's just easier and simpler to say "Paducah Civil Air Patrol" vs. "Paducah Composite Squadron, Civil Air Patrol".

[Stonewall]

A unit named after a person such as the Ben O. Davis Cadet Squadron is a differant thing altogether/

That squadron closed down too.  I think anyway.  Or did it turn into a school thing.

Yeah, all the inner city squadrons in DC fell apart, except for the one on Bolling AFB, but still, they never seemed to have quality leadership there either.  Well, this one guy, but he went up to wing.  Then there was the lady who stole all the squadron money....

[flyguy06]

A unit named after a person such as the Ben O. Davis Cadet Squadron is a differant thing altogether/

That squadron closed down too.  I think anyway.  Or did it turn into a school thing.

Yeah, all the inner city squadrons in DC fell apart, except for the one on Bolling AFB, but still, they never seemed to have quality leadership there either.  Well, this one guy, but he went up to wing.  Then there was the lady who stole all the squadron money....

Oooooook. what does an inner city unit have to do with my post? I was talking about Squadron names versus numbers.