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Author Topic: The AFA Prep School "Incident"...  (Read 4213 times)
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,864

« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2017, 10:29:49 AM »

Don't feed the Troll...
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zippy
Recruit

Posts: 38

« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2017, 10:31:38 AM »

No one accused AFAPS cadet candidates OR AFA cadets with this! The General simply stated that the Air Force has no tolerance for such behavior or action.  Any other interpretation or rationalization of this incident should not be accepted. 

The AFA prep school also has a large contingent of CAP cadets enrolled as students/cadet candidates. ALL take the oath of enlistment when they arrive.  It would be against our "Core Values" to malign them, or any other AFAPS cadet candidate
The general gave a "blistering" and angry speech on "tolerance" where he berated the cadets sort of like a principal will berate middle school kids that got into a cafeteria food fight. They were publicly berated with no evidence. That is wrong.

Sports coaches that never were in the military are selecting for the AFA. There are two sets of rules, one for recruited athletes and another for merit cadets (You know, like the CAP Cadets). Those slots should go to CAP Cadets. A shocking number of non-merit athletes are let into the AFA.

There was a Cadet at West Point that said football players at the academies should not stand for the National Anthem. Were cadets like him ever berated publicly?

Read the quote below from LTC Heffington about West Point.
Quote
we routinely admit athletes with ACT scores in the mid-teens across the board. I have personally taught cadets who are borderline illiterate and cannot read simple passages from the assigned textbooks.

 The plebe American History course has been revamped to focus completely on race and on the narrative that America is founded solely on a history of racial oppression. Cadets derisively call it the “I Hate America Course.” Simultaneously, the plebe International History course now focuses on gender to the exclusion of many other important themes. On the other hand, an entire semester of military history was recently deleted from the curriculum (at West Point!).

 Cadets are jaded, cynical, arrogant, and entitled. They routinely talk back to and snap at their instructors (military and civilian alike), challenge authority, and openly refuse to follow regulations

effort to tum the institution into a third-rate civilian liberal arts college. Unfortunately, they have largely succeeded. The few remaining members of the staff and faculty who are still trying to hold the line are routinely berated, ignored, and ultimately silenced

http://americanmilitarynews.com/2017/10/exclusive-former-west-point-professors-letter-exposes-corruption-cheating-and-failing-standards-full-letter/





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Cicero
Forum Regular

Posts: 105

« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2017, 11:37:49 AM »

LTC Heffington makes an horrific but probably correct point. Very sad.
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zippy
Recruit

Posts: 38

« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2017, 01:03:02 PM »

LTC Heffington makes an horrific but probably correct point. Very sad.


The good news is the new Secretary of Defense is making positive changes. I predict better academies  over the next few years.
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Cicero
Forum Regular

Posts: 105

« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2017, 03:28:04 PM »

LTC Heffington makes an horrific but probably correct point. Very sad.


The good news is the new Secretary of Defense is making positive changes. I predict better academies  over the next few years.
If you have links, please share to spread the cheer.
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Cicero
Forum Regular

Posts: 105

« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2017, 08:57:21 PM »

Cadet candidate found responsible for racist messages at USAFA Prep school


http://www.koaa.com/story/36788200/cadet-candidate-found-responsible-for-racist-messages-at-usafa-prep-school

An investigation by the US Air Force Academy has determined a cadet who reported a racist message outside their dorm room is the person responsible for the messages left on several message boards.

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Johnny Yuma
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 593

« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2017, 08:51:56 AM »

Cadet candidate found responsible for racist messages at USAFA Prep school


http://www.koaa.com/story/36788200/cadet-candidate-found-responsible-for-racist-messages-at-usafa-prep-school

An investigation by the US Air Force Academy has determined a cadet who reported a racist message outside their dorm room is the person responsible for the messages left on several message boards.

I'm sure we'll be receiving "Ooops, my bad for falsely accusing my students of being racists" speeches from Generals Myers and Silvera anytime, right? [/sarcasm]
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"And Saint Attila raised the Holy Hand Grenade up on high saying, "Oh Lord, Bless us this Holy Hand Grenade, and with it smash our enemies to tiny bits. And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs, and stoats, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and lima bean-"
 
" Skip a bit, brother."
 
"And then the Lord spake, saying: "First, shalt thou take out the holy pin. Then shalt thou count to three. No more, no less. "Three" shall be the number of the counting, and the number of the counting shall be three. "Four" shalt thou not count, and neither count thou two, execpting that thou then goest on to three. Five is RIGHT OUT. Once the number three, being the third number be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade to-wards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuffit. Amen."

Armaments Chapter One, verses nine through twenty-seven:
jeders
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,006

« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2017, 10:10:21 AM »

Cadet candidate found responsible for racist messages at USAFA Prep school


http://www.koaa.com/story/36788200/cadet-candidate-found-responsible-for-racist-messages-at-usafa-prep-school

An investigation by the US Air Force Academy has determined a cadet who reported a racist message outside their dorm room is the person responsible for the messages left on several message boards.

I'm sure we'll be receiving "Ooops, my bad for falsely accusing my students of being racists" speeches from Generals Myers and Silvera anytime, right? [/sarcasm]

Why would they? A cadet still did something which was unacceptable. The message still holds, if you do this kind of stuff, you have no place in the Air Force.
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If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse
kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 740

« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2017, 10:11:48 AM »

Cadet candidate found responsible for racist messages at USAFA Prep school


http://www.koaa.com/story/36788200/cadet-candidate-found-responsible-for-racist-messages-at-usafa-prep-school

An investigation by the US Air Force Academy has determined a cadet who reported a racist message outside their dorm room is the person responsible for the messages left on several message boards.

I had a feeling that was going to happen.  I saw someone else (non-military) got caught doing something similar.  He spray painted his car with racial slurs and blamed it on racists (I guess to get his 5 minutes of fame) but didn't realize his apartment complex has security cameras.

Racism is alive all over the world and in all forms.  I do not understand the logic that some people use to think it is a good idea to do these things.  Unfortunately the news of the "AFA Incident" was front page news all over the country and sparked many "knowledgeable" people to write about how the US military is just a training ground for white supremacists.  I doubt the same media who was so fast to condemn the military as a racist wasteland will put much effort into reporting who was really responsible for this.

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Cicero
Forum Regular

Posts: 105

« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2017, 10:20:45 AM »

I doubt the same media who was so fast to condemn the military as a racist wasteland will put much effort into reporting who was really responsible for this.

I hope the CG at least readdresses the cadets and apologizes for accusing them of racism based on this hoax.
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kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 740

« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2017, 10:24:11 AM »

I doubt the same media who was so fast to condemn the military as a racist wasteland will put much effort into reporting who was really responsible for this.

I hope the CG at least readdresses the cadets and apologizes for accusing them of racism based on this hoax.

Will never happen as we all know.  It was a great speech but it just shows that you should not jump to conclusions.  The general was trying to defuse a situation that did not exist. I'm not saying racism doesn't exist at the AFA, but it certainly isn't the overt and vocal racism that this hopefully former cadet was trying to create.
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Cicero
Forum Regular

Posts: 105

« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2017, 11:33:35 AM »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/08/a-black-student-wrote-those-racist-messages-that-shook-the-air-force-academy/?utm_term=.85cad57ef354
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Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,523

« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2017, 12:04:42 PM »

I do not know why some members are stating the CG has to apologize. He does not. The member responsible was a cadet so he is still right!
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Cicero
Forum Regular

Posts: 105

« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2017, 12:18:58 PM »

I do not know why some members are stating the CG has to apologize. He does not. The member responsible was a cadet so he is still right!
1 - Not a cadet, a prep school candidate,
2 - The tenor of the speech implied that a cadet was responsible
3 - This type of hoax ought to be specifically called out and condemned as it degrades the entire system
4 - I hold out little hope that the PC world of higher ed (and the service academies now graduate open communists so they are clearly part of the academic swamp) will do the right thing.
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Cicero
Forum Regular

Posts: 105

« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2017, 12:49:02 PM »

The general gave a "blistering" and angry speech on "tolerance" where he berated the cadets sort of like a principal will berate middle school kids that got into a cafeteria food fight. They were publicly berated with no evidence. That is wrong.

Sports coaches that never were in the military are selecting for the AFA. There are two sets of rules, one for recruited athletes and another for merit cadets (You know, like the CAP Cadets). Those slots should go to CAP Cadets. A shocking number of non-merit athletes are let into the AFA.

There was a Cadet at West Point that said football players at the academies should not stand for the National Anthem. Were cadets like him ever berated publicly?

Read the quote below from LTC Heffington about West Point.
Quote
we routinely admit athletes with ACT scores in the mid-teens across the board. I have personally taught cadets who are borderline illiterate and cannot read simple passages from the assigned textbooks.

 The plebe American History course has been revamped to focus completely on race and on the narrative that America is founded solely on a history of racial oppression. Cadets derisively call it the “I Hate America Course.” Simultaneously, the plebe International History course now focuses on gender to the exclusion of many other important themes. On the other hand, an entire semester of military history was recently deleted from the curriculum (at West Point!).

 Cadets are jaded, cynical, arrogant, and entitled. They routinely talk back to and snap at their instructors (military and civilian alike), challenge authority, and openly refuse to follow regulations

effort to tum the institution into a third-rate civilian liberal arts college. Unfortunately, they have largely succeeded. The few remaining members of the staff and faculty who are still trying to hold the line are routinely berated, ignored, and ultimately silenced

http://americanmilitarynews.com/2017/10/exclusive-former-west-point-professors-letter-exposes-corruption-cheating-and-failing-standards-full-letter/

Correct. He needs to do a followup. In my opinion. Not that he cares about my opinion.
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HGjunkie
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,616

« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2017, 12:56:09 PM »

2 - The tenor of the speech implied that a cadet was responsible

False.

4 - I hold out little hope that the PC world of higher ed (and the service academies now graduate open communists so they are clearly part of the academic swamp) will do the right thing.

The message shouldn't change because the person was identified. Frankly, our Supt doesn't need to do anything about it.
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••• retired
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NIN
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Unit: of issue

« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2017, 01:16:27 PM »

I do not know why some members are stating the CG has to apologize. He does not. The member responsible was a cadet so he is still right!
1 - Not a cadet, a prep school candidate,
2 - The tenor of the speech implied that a cadet was responsible
3 - This type of hoax ought to be specifically called out and condemned as it degrades the entire system
4 - I hold out little hope that the PC world of higher ed (and the service academies now graduate open communists so they are clearly part of the academic swamp) will do the right thing.

The commandant of the Prep School reports to the Supe, General Silveria, thus the Prep School is part of USAFA in the broadest sense.  You'll note that General Silveria had at that gathering in Mitchell Hall folks from 10th ABW, the Prep School and all the civilian and military staff of USAFA. IOW: essentially everybody at C-Springs.

He was speaking of (and to) "everybody at USAFA," not specifically cadets.

His "tenor" was basically "someone here on this base did this," not "it was a cadet!"  Cadet Wing cadets don't really have access to the Prep School. Its away from the Cadet Area and not really a place traveled by cadets from the Cadet Wing. Sure, a cadet could have done it, but a disgruntled TSgt from the Civil Engineering Squadron could have done it, too.

In the long term, yes, it was a "hoax," but really, the General was right: someone at USAFA did this. But still: someone there had to hold forth some belief or ethos that was not in keeping with the highest traditions and standards of the Air Force and the DoD. That it was one of the cadets affected who perpetrated the messages, well, that just makes it worse (for him/her).

Remember: While we think that USAFA, along with USMA and USNA, are supposed to be our "gold standards" of military officer education, I'm here to tell you that we need to remind ourselves that the people who go to C-Spring, Annapolis and West Point are, at the end of the day, still young people, college students, and officers in training.  They are not that far removed from the cadets we interact with every day, complete with personalities, foibles and quirks. Some have even less of a "background" in ethics and leadership than our cadets do, and come from all kinds of interesting backgrounds and experiences.  So many of them are literally just now coming to grips with the realities of military life, military ethics, military leadership, all while having to live in a college dorm, but under considerably different rules and strictures than their civilian counterparts, in an environment that is pretty alien.

But they still have spirit runs and other goofy "college" traditions that we don't traditionally associate with the military. They're not faceless automatons who are incapable of mistake or are "super soldiers." They're still 22-23 year old "newbies" when they graduate and pin on 2nd Lt.  In my experience (and YMMV, so I will freely admit not being the end-all here), service academy graduates tend to be a little socially and militarily "stunted" sometimes compared to their peers from ROTC and OCS.  Its like they spent 4 years on their own extra-special island of misfit toys with extremely limited interactions off the island. Kind of how sometimes our cadets have this weird "impression" of how things work in the real world.

I'd be a little careful how I characterize the "PC world of higher ed" creeping into the Service academies. While yes, it is happening, its probably still not happening at the rate of their civilian counterparts.

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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,061
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #37 on: November 08, 2017, 01:21:30 PM »

OK, folks, we now have a single thread on this. There was no need for a second one. The two threads have been merged into this one, and the non-relevant posts have been removed.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 466

« Reply #38 on: November 08, 2017, 02:14:20 PM »

OK, folks, we now have a single thread on this. There was no need for a second one. The two threads have been merged into this one, and the non-relevant posts have been removed.

This was reported in prior posts.

http://www.bbc.com/news/41909791 

and 

http://gazette.com/air-force-academy-finds-cadet-candidate-responsible-for-racist-messages/article/1614770


We don't need this sort of behavior, regardless of whether for self serving or "noble" purposes.  It is very disappointing from just about every perspective I can imagine.

:(
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 02:31:28 PM by Live2Learn » Logged
Cicero
Forum Regular

Posts: 105

« Reply #39 on: November 08, 2017, 02:48:08 PM »

"We would also be tone deaf not to think about the backdrop of what is going on in our country," Silveria told cadets, referencing the recent violence in Charlottesville, Va., Ferguson, Mo., and controversial protests in the NFL in which dozens of players have knelt during the national anthem.

The clear tone and tenor was that there was a racist in the midst and that was wrong.
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