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Author Topic: Gliderbooks Academy?  (Read 1771 times)
xray328
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 515
Unit: IL-189

« on: September 18, 2017, 10:30:40 AM »

Anyone use the online video series by Russell Holtz - Gliderbooks Academy?  Would it be worth the investment for a young glider student?  Her instructor wants her to read Glider Basics by Tom Knauff but she's having a hard time applying what she's reading.  I thought a different medium might be helpful.  We're 50 flights into the ASK-21 and this is (rightfully) keeping her from her solo.

https://academy.gliderbooks.com/
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 10:34:22 AM by xray328 » Logged
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,864

« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2017, 12:54:31 PM »

I would do what the Instructor want's her to do.
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xray328
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 515
Unit: IL-189

« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2017, 02:27:48 PM »

I would do what the Instructor want's her to do.

Like I said, she's having a tough time applying what she's reading, I thought that maybe if the material was presented in a different way it might help.
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,864

« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2017, 03:56:49 PM »

I would do what the Instructor want's her to do.

Like I said, she's having a tough time applying what she's reading, I thought that maybe if the material was presented in a different way it might help.

Show the instructor the book you want to use and see if they have any problems with using it. The instructor knows exactly how good or bad she's doing. He's right there with her!
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FlyMe2TheMooneyBin
Newbie

Posts: 4

« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2017, 07:19:24 PM »

I used Holtz's books when I got my glider rating.  They're good, but may not be worth the money.  I found them better than the FAA Glider handbook, but I would rather have spent the money for Holtz's books on extra flight time and used the FAA handbook.  I find Knauff's books to be too brief, and wanted a bit more explanation.
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xray328
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 515
Unit: IL-189

« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2017, 07:22:15 PM »

Thanks, have you seen any of these videos? The intro videos seem so do a good job explaining things.  I tend to learn better with visuals myself, seems to be the same with the kiddo. Maybe I didn't explain that these are all a video course.  For instance, lift vs angle of attack:

https://youtu.be/ehAkRt83fCw


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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FlyMe2TheMooneyBin
Newbie

Posts: 4

« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2017, 08:30:53 PM »

I haven't seen them because I like being able to ask questions. Maybe my training was a bit different - I needed to know basics for my initial solo, but much of the work with the books came post-solo as I was prepping for the check ride.

If her instructor doesn't really like ground school, then maybe you can find an alternative. An AGI at one of my flying clubs sometimes teaches a private pilot course at a nearby community college. (If IL-189 is near Chicago, maybe something like the College of DuPage would be interesting to check out.)

Also, if you're close to solo, a good CFI should tell you what to work on.  For example, mine said "Your landings are controlled, but they're on the hard side of acceptable. They're ok as long as I'm on board, but I don't want you to solo and have one of your harder landings without me in the plane." So we went up and drilled low-energy touchdowns, and I soloed after the next couple of sessions.

And don't stress about the number of flights. One of the instructors at a glider club I belong to didn't solo until flight 99. The number of dual flights you have prior to solo does not indicate anything about how good a pilot you will become.
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Bloodhound
Recruit

Posts: 8
Unit: NER-PA-251

« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2017, 09:20:55 AM »

Sorry for the late response, don't get on here often.  May I suggest to the student that it's a good thing to tell the instructor that they aren't understanding the books and want additional ground school.  If your instructor isn't willing to change the method of teaching to ensure the student understands, find another instructor.  Here's a free resource from the FAA - it's not perfect, but a different approach might help.  https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aircraft/glider_handbook/media/faa-h-8083-13a.pdf
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Amy Binder, Capt, CAP
CFI, CFIG
Hilltown Senior Squadron
NER-PA-251
Flying Pig
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,031

« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2017, 08:48:44 AM »

How old is the student?   50 flights without a solo is a pretty significant number of flights.  What it is that she's not understanding that is keeping her from solo?   At the solo level, calling your level of understanding "basic" would be a stretch for most pilots honestly.   How much total time does she have vs flights?   
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,864

« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2017, 11:34:55 AM »

How old is the student?   50 flights without a solo is a pretty significant number of flights.  What it is that she's not understanding that is keeping her from solo?   At the solo level, calling your level of understanding "basic" would be a stretch for most pilots honestly.   How much total time does she have vs flights?   

And are these all winch launch flights or aero tow? Winch launch flights tend to be rather short since they tend to be once around the pattern flights.
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xray328
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 515
Unit: IL-189

« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2017, 11:41:25 AM »

She’s having difficulty reading the book then applying what she’s read.  She’s now at 53 flights and her instructor said he’s not going to fly with her anymore.  His take is that she’s not putting enough effort in.  He said it’s “tough love”.  She’s getting frustrated because she is in fact reading the book, but it’s not sinking in. At this point I think she’s done for this season.  Maybe a “week 2” at a CAP glider academy would do the trick?  These are aero tows and I’m guessing 10 hours of flight time.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 11:46:30 AM by xray328 » Logged
Flying Pig
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,031

« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2017, 01:12:14 PM »

53 flights with about 10hrs in an ASK21 is pretty short flights.   Unless you just live in an area with zero lift.    Is the instructors assessments of her not putting in the effort consistent with your daughter normally or is that just out of the ordinary.  Lets face it, parents know their kids.   When I learned to fly gliders as a 14-15yr old my CFI had been a P51 mustang ace in WWII and could probably teach a rock to fly.  Then for a while I had a cfi who I swear just hated kids.  I'm 42 now and looking back on it as an adult I know now that the man just hated people overall.  I was actually nervous to even be around him because he was so mean .

53 flights in that type of sailplane with only 10hrs just sounds really strange. Thats an average of an 18 min flight.  Heck... the tow itself should be 10-15ish.  Not grasping the book work translating into 53 flights and still can't solo just doesn't correlate.  If she's that far behind the book work, then why is she still flying?  It sounds like the flying should have stopped at flight 20ish and gone into classroom mode.  Instead t sounds like you have an instructor who wants to fly and expects the ground to be done at home on her own.  (Total speculation in my part) but if the book work is what keeps her from soloing, why is she still out going on tow after tow after tow with mom and dad footing the bill?   (Not that you owe me an explanation...Just thinking out loud).

That scenario is consistent to a point with youth level pilot students.  They want to fly, they dont want to study.  But its the amount of flights she has compared to progress and the reasons for the lack of progress that dont make sense to me as an instructor.  Again I dont know your kid... but a CFI telling a student they wont fly with them anymore and calling it "tough love" is not settling well with me for some reason.  Have you changed CFIs?   I can just see that being a huge blow to a teenager.

(Edited for horrendous spelling and punctuation as a result of commenting on my iPhone!)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 01:24:34 PM by Flying Pig » Logged
xray328
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 515
Unit: IL-189

« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2017, 01:23:38 PM »

I’ll have to get the exact hours, 10 was a guess.  But yes, we do live in a zero lift area. The field is also challenging, there are very few alternate landing options and there are trees on one side and houses/buildings on the other.  I didn’t appreciate the challenge until I took a flight recently.  Certainly much more challenging than when I did my solo at Coles County (Johnson).  And yes, he expects her to read during the week and answer his questions on her flying day. They spend on average about 30 minutes reviewing the material before they fly. I’m not sure that’s enough, 30 minutes then a week goes by. I really think a solid week of instruction at a CAP glider academy would do wonders.
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Flying Pig
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,031

« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2017, 01:25:45 PM »

Sorry... I added a paragraph to my above post as you were responding.. 
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xray328
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 515
Unit: IL-189

« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2017, 11:53:01 PM »

So...660 minutes of flight instruction over 53 flights.  The "usual flight" seemed to be 12 minutes which proved true in the math 660/53=12.45   She received about 8 1/2 hours of ground school.  She trained Sep-Nov 2016 and May-Oct 2017.

This all being said, the instruction at the club is free as is use of the glider.  We paid the initiation fee, we pay the tow fee and monthly/yearly dues. Her instructor is very nice and very knowledgeable, but it's just not working for her.  It's tough to change CFI's, he seems to think this is all from lack of effort or her being overloaded in other areas (CAP, honors, sports) and has shared that with other instructors.  He's also the only one at the club that trains youth.  I don't really fault the instructor, I know he wants her safe but to a degree, I think he may be being overprotective of her. 

As to why we just kept going, I guess we thought 50 was the magic number, in other words, worst case is that she'd solo by then.  Of course there is no magic number and she solo's whenever she's ready. No one wants to push the solo, on the other hand if this isn't working for her after 53 flights,  I think it's time to go a different direction in her training. 





« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 12:03:02 AM by xray328 » Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,996

« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2017, 12:02:21 AM »

I'd suggest looking towards Johnson or NFA where she can get more intensive instruction and
longer flights.

I'd say it's also possible that the instructor has "decided" she's not getting it and that's pushing
things in the wrong direction as well.

Those also occur during a time when other distractions, assuming it's relevent, aren't a factor.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
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mdickinson
Forum Regular

Posts: 182

« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2017, 06:18:08 AM »

So...660 minutes of flight instruction over 53 flights.  The "usual flight" seemed to be 12 minutes which proved true in the math 660/53=12.45   She received about 8 1/2 hours of ground school.  She trained Sep-Nov 2016 and May-Oct 2017.

I instructed at a glider club in a not-quite-zero lift area for several years, and almost all of our flights (in SGS-233s) were 17 minutes. That was from a tow to 3,000 feet AGL. Perhaps your club tows to a lower altitude?

Quote
This all being said, the instruction at the club is free as is use of the glider.  We paid the initiation fee, we pay the tow fee and monthly/yearly dues. Her instructor is very nice and very knowledgeable

Sounds just like my old glider club. The instructor, unpaid, has no financial incentive to delay solo - he just wants her to be safe, and to be able to truthfully sign her log book saying she has the pre-solo aeronautical knowledge. That knowledge hasn't been demonstrated to his satisfaction yet because the ground school, which I'm guessing is given in the open on the field in tiny bits between flights, hasn't been effective (hasn't caused her to learn and retain the material). The problem could be the teaching method, the location, or the half-hour-once-a-week schedule; or she might just not be reviewing the material in between ground school classes.

The 53 flights doesn't strike me as a problem, especially as all this flying is practically free. (Each of those 12 minutes may seem gets kinda pricey when you divide it by the cost of a tow; but they're far less than to the cost of a minute of dual in a C-172 at the local flight school. In my area, a 172 + instructor is now >$3.30 per minute.)

From what you've written it sounds as if the CFIG is just looking for a more thorough understanding of the topics required on the pre-solo aeronautical knowledge. I would suggest she attend a complete glider ground school.

- Maybe you could asking her instructor and/or another club instructor if they could give a ground school course in a classroom (which could be their living room or yours). Could be several students or just her. This would not be as a volunteer instructor at the club, but a paid position. Or perhaps you engage the instructor(s) but then you open it up to other cadets from your squadron (and any other local squadrons). The point is, she learns the theory and other knowledge once and for all, and is then free to proceed to solo.

Attending an NFA-G sounds like it might be great for her - she would get the structured classroom ground school she hasn't gotten at the club. But
(a) everyone else would be on flight 1 and she'd be on flight 54... she'll definitely be ready to solo during the week, and
(b) CAP has a rule (at least they did as of 10 years ago) that cadets couldn't solo gliders at their first NFA-G. They could only get as far as "supervised solo." Only if they attended a second advanced NFA-G could they actually solo.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 06:22:08 AM by mdickinson » Logged
Flying Pig
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,031

« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2017, 07:38:18 AM »

I guess I was blessed to learn to fly in So Cal where you could get 30-45 minutes in a 2-33.  When I was flying the Grob 103 Id get 2 hours with no problem.   My longest was 3.5 in a 1-26.  The only reason I came down was because I had to pee like you couldnt believe :) 
Well from the more detailed discussion it sounds like its all on the up and up with the CFI.  I really hope it doesnt discourage her to the point where she loses interest.
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xray328
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 515
Unit: IL-189

« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2017, 08:49:08 AM »

So...660 minutes of flight instruction over 53 flights.  The "usual flight" seemed to be 12 minutes which proved true in the math 660/53=12.45   She received about 8 1/2 hours of ground school.  She trained Sep-Nov 2016 and May-Oct 2017.


(b) CAP has a rule (at least they did as of 10 years ago) that cadets couldn't solo gliders at their first NFA-G. They could only get as far as "supervised solo." Only if they attended a second advanced NFA-G could they actually solo.

Yeah, I'm not sure how that'd work. Looking over the JFA page it says you apply for the NCSA the same way no matter if you have prior glider experience or not and they determine which class you attend based on prior glider experience at the academy (emphasis mine).  So if they placed her in the advanced class (year 2) she'd be with students that flew this last year.  I'm not sure about the solo? Obviously that rules in place so cadets don't solo the first year they attend assuming they are starting with zero flights.  Does that same rule apply to the NGA's?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 09:01:32 AM by xray328 » Logged
xray328
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 515
Unit: IL-189

« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2017, 09:03:03 AM »

Glider Program Procedures:

"Glider academy students are restricted from completing solo the first time they attend,
whether it is nationally accredited or not. Waivers may be requested with the
concurrence of two flight instructors through the NHQ/DO; however, blanket waivers
cannot be approved"
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Aviation & Flying Activities  |  Topic: Gliderbooks Academy?
 


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