Cadets: A Sincere Question For You

[etodd]

A large part of society feels no need to memorize facts or even learn where the facts can be found ... because they have a cell phone and can just Google it. Decades ago if you wanted to know something you might actually drive to a library and use a card catalog to find some books to research the answer.  Now the library is in your pocket. So many kids and even adults do not want to read a long book or paper to find an answer. They are quite accustomed to 'instant answers' via Wiki, Google and more. And if a Google search results in a very long CAP pdf file ... forget it. They want a link to the specific answer, not the whole book. Its the times we are in. The kids tell us its 'progress'.

[stillamarine]

I have always subscribed to the idea that there are no dumb questions, but only poorly thought out questions.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

You've never taught a class to a room full of cops. I assure you there are dumb questions. Especially when you are trying to go home!

[NIN]

A large part of society feels no need to memorize facts or even learn where the facts can be found ... because they have a cell phone and can just Google it. Decades ago if you wanted to know something you might actually drive to a library and use a card catalog to find some books to research the answer.  Now the library is in your pocket. So many kids and even adults do not want to read a long book or paper to find an answer. They are quite accustomed to 'instant answers' via Wiki, Google and more. And if a Google search results in a very long CAP pdf file ... forget it. They want a link to the specific answer, not the whole book. Its the times we are in. The kids tell us its 'progress'.

Sitting at dinner with our neighbors not an hour ago, this very subject came up (domain knowledge vs instant "point" information) and I used CAP testing as an example.

35 years ago, you studied Chapter x in the Leadership text and then were required to take a test on it.  You didn't quite know what the test was going to cover, so you studied like heck that *whole* chapter.   And you had no reference while taking the test.  Oh, and usually, if you didn't pass, you had to wait a month to take it again.

Consequently, you became conversant with the materials (even when the materials changed).

Now, its a 25 question open book (and online) test. You look up very specific things when you take an open book test. Just enough for the answer.   Didn't pass. You'll take it again in a little bit.  Etc...

Ugh.

[Hummingbird]

I usually try to check manuals first, but sometimes they are either impossible to find, or don't give a straight answer. (Eservices could possibly have a list separate from the mess on the sidebar to solve the issue of finding proper manuals.)

My chain of command(In my opinion) usually either has an answer, a good guess, or can find the answer if asked.

[SarDragon]

I usually try to check manuals first, but sometimes they are either impossible to find, or don't give a straight answer. (Eservices could possibly have a list separate from the mess on the sidebar to solve the issue of finding proper manuals.)

My chain of command(In my opinion) usually either has an answer, a good guess, or can find the answer if asked.

Think ahead, though. Someday, you might be a part of the chain of command. Now whatcha gonna do? The earlier you start finding the answers yourself, with a little help from others for interpretation, the better  equipped you will be as an NCO or officer.

[MSG Mac]

I usually try to check manuals first, but sometimes they are either impossible to find, or don't give a straight answer. (Eservices could possibly have a list separate from the mess on the sidebar to solve the issue of finding proper manuals.)

My chain of command(In my opinion) usually either has an answer, a good guess, or can find the answer if asked.

Think ahead, though. Someday, you might be a part of the chain of command. Now whatcha gonna do? The earlier you start finding the answers yourself, with a little help from others for interpretation, the better  equipped you will be as an NCO or officer.

All members should have a working knowledge of The regs and manuals pertaining to their jobs. At the minimum CAPR 39-1 and CAPM 20-1. Cadet Officers have to complete 2Staff Duty Analysis's per each promotion based on the regulations pertaining to each position. No excuse for anySM or senior Cadet to say "I didn't know" or even worse " We've always done it this way"

[THRAWN]

When I was a kid, I'd ask dear old dad a question and his response was always the same:"Look it up!". Kids these days have no idea how to research information. Get an encyclopedia (and yes, I had to sing the song to spell it correctly...) for your house. Learn to look things up. Learn how the regs are structured. Learn how to find information using indexes...my son really gripes about having to ask me things, but he knows where to find a lot of answers to life's little questions....

[HGjunkie]

There is a lot of conjecture and speculation in this thread specifically trying to demean Cadets in general and not giving them any credit as to their ability to find answers to questions (cadets are lazy, don't care, etc). The CP is inherently a learning environment, and you have a lot of people who are in middle school or beginning high school who have most likely never needed to research things intensively before. Like hummingbird said, the regs aren't very well written in a lot of cases and he's already being scolded for not putting in enough effort to try and interpret the regs on his own. A lot of posters here like to do that towards cadets here; sure, you can pass it off as a learning experience but when you have a C/Amn who probably doesn't have a job of any sort which requires subject knowledge past 39-1 or 52-16, it's unnecessary. And the chain of command exists primarily to support the subordinates and be able to field issues or questions requiring that subject expertise.

Here's a better way to approach it:
"Hey Sir, how do you do X for the PT test?"
"You do Y. Hey, for future reference I recommend you check out P52-18 for any information on the PT program."

Giving people the answer *and* the resource to find the answer kills two canaries with one mine: they know how and where to look it up in the future, and they get an immediate response which is arguably more useful than being told "Go look it up, I'm busy eating a donut..."

[Garibaldi]

Agreed. I'm talking about the general state of teens these days. The regs are hard to interpret and contradicts itself in some places, so I am definitely sure it's not targeted for an audience younger than 20 or so. If a cadet came up to me with the regs, or their iPad or whatever with the regs pulled up, I'd be very inclined to help. It's the ones who consistently find excuses for not doing things on their own, researching, using their Google-fu, or even asking peers that I'm finding fault with.

If I had a serious issue with helping cadets, I would not devote so much time to the program. It's a learning curve, a steep one at times, for a 12-13 year old mindset that's done nothing more than sit in front of a TV or playing with their phone, to come out of their shell and visit the larger world around them. I have actually had cadets show ME things in the regs that I missed, or if I'm having a debate about how to do things, they sometimes tell me "But, sir, CAPR XX-XXXX says..." and I'm astounded.

Show them once, good. Show them more than twice, fail.

[SarDragon]

Nailed it!

Read first, then ask questions if there's a lack of understanding.

[Pace]

Ok, so I'll throw in here. As a cadet, I had a better working knowledge of the regulations than any senior member in my squadron, including the commander. How? Because I had been trained to. 4 years of AFJROTC and the cadet wing inspector general and 2 years of cross-examination debate. I walked into CAP knowing there were manuals with the answers and the literary skills to find those answers.

Today, as a thriple degreed, masters prepared professional, I find myself tearing through the regs going "where is this bloody answer." If I am having that level of frustration, you bet cadets are, too. Chances are good that they're more likely to give up if they have never been taught or been in a position to be held accountable for knowing the answers. And oh by the way, we have three, count them, three national websites where information is sometimes difficult to locate ("you looked in eServices, silly cadet it's in capmembers.com", or "you sent a potential recruit to eServices; it's clearly over at gocivilairpatrol.com"). I also really wish a few of the basic manuals were printed for all new members.

That being said, I do think that society in general (not just teens) has gotten lazy. I routinely get questions from members twice my age that could easily be answered in the regs. Every time I suggested the answer be researched, it never was (well, I can think of one time it was).

[Cadetter]

Young (and immature) cadet officer here. I usually try to think of the regs/pubs/manuals as the first source but sometimes can't find the answer - so I usually ask my cadet commander or squadron deputy commander for direction. Sometimes I don't know there is a reg pertaining to my question, and I ask here in that case. (Or if I suspect there is a reg/pub/manual but can't find it... ditto.)

[TheSkyHornet]

I'd like to add that I often find that when questions are posed to cadets, seniors chime in and start giving their input. That's another reason why cadets go to message boards or seniors rather than their chain of command: they know they'll respond.

[raivo]

To be fair, using CAPtalk as the frame of reference adds some inherent bias to the original question, because on here we only ever see the cadets who ask questions and not the cadets who did the research on their own and didn't ask a question.