Clarification of badge location on ABUs

[8416w]

Reading the guidelines for badge and patch wear on the ABUs, It doesn't say what can be worn on the right sleeve.  I am assuming that nothing can be worn on the right sleeve. Also it appears that no big specialty patches can be worn above the right pocket only on the right pocket. Does anyone know if I am correct in my assumptions.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Reading the guidelines for badge and patch wear on the ABUs, It doesn't say what can be worn on the right sleeve.  I am assuming that nothing can be worn on the right sleeve. Also it appears that no big specialty patches can be worn above the right pocket only on the right pocket. Does anyone know if I am correct in my assumptions.

Yes on the sleeve, and yes, the pluto patch is dead as well.

[Damron]

Looks like the Ranger tab is dead as well, right?

[jeders]

Reading the guidelines for badge and patch wear on the ABUs, It doesn't say what can be worn on the right sleeve.  I am assuming that nothing can be worn on the right sleeve. Also it appears that no big specialty patches can be worn above the right pocket only on the right pocket. Does anyone know if I am correct in my assumptions.

Yes on the sleeve, and yes, the pluto patch is dead as well.

Not dead, just moved to the pocket as far as I can tell.

Looks like the Ranger tab is dead as well, right?

For the time being. But, considering the number of issues with the current guidance, I expect it to be revised to include ranger tabs, berets, and other items currently authorized on the BDU by the time the final guidance makes its way into 39-1.

[Spam]

My understanding from our briefing at the GAWG/SER conference recently was that the updates pending USAF concurrence are that any "Ranger" type tabs would be local (Wing) specific Supplemental topics, and that all Activity-specific headgear (such as blue berets, which are a huge USAF security force issue) will be allowed at the host activity only, to be removed and stored after the activity until next years activity.

V/R
Spam

[NCRblues]

(such as blue berets, which are a huge USAF security force issue)

V/R
Spam

BS flag on the play...

It is in no way a "SF issue" to have CAP members wearing a felt hat that happened to be close to the same shade as AF cops.

Let's just be honest about what this is and stop blaming the AF. This is CAP realizing that we don't truly need special headgear for NCSA attendees. Heck, I've been to NBB a lot, and I hate the beret, but it's not a Security Forces issue. My old AD squadron of just under 600 SF had no idea what CAP even was, I was the only member, let alone them caring about a fraction of a fraction of a percent of CAP members who happen to wear a beret in a field uniform.

[8416w]

Thank you for the response. My squadron has received it's supply of ABU's and I just wanted to be able to guide the cadet's in the right direction. Hopefully our new wing commander will be sending out info soon on whether the wing patch will be required for the left sleeve.

[Okayish Aviator]

(such as blue berets, which are a huge USAF security force issue)

V/R
Spam

BS flag on the play...

It is in no way a "SF issue" to have CAP members wearing a felt hat that happened to be close to the same shade as AF cops.

Let's just be honest about what this is and stop blaming the AF. This is CAP realizing that we don't truly need special headgear for NCSA attendees. Heck, I've been to NBB a lot, and I hate the beret, but it's not a Security Forces issue. My old AD squadron of just under 600 SF had no idea what CAP even was, I was the only member, let alone them caring about a fraction of a fraction of a percent of CAP members who happen to wear a beret in a field uniform.

And I'll add, I've been to NBB several times, and although I'd like the option to wear it, it's not really a big deal if I can't, or if we can't in general. The whole point of that activity (or any NCSA for that matter) is the mission and the work done there. It doesn't make you special. The quality of work you do while you're there is what makes you stand out. You carry that forward regardless of what hat you wear, and so either way it makes no difference. At least.... that's what I've come to feel about it after being *all about the beret* back when I was a wee cadet.

Id imagine we'll see additions to the uniform items allowed in any case, but far more toned down. I'm happy with it.

[audiododd]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

[Eclipse]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

Deity of choice forbid members actually look sharp.

Let's make sure that never happens again.

[Luis R. Ramos]

That feeling, of actually wanting to have starched field uniforms and spit-shined boots runs deep on some...

I have seen photos of US Army soldiers in 1939-1940s where they actually wore ties to the field.

Those guys want to impress...

With their work dress...

[audiododd]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

Deity of choice forbid members actually look sharp.

Let's make sure that never happens again.

You can look sharp without starching a crease that'll almost cut you into a UTILITY uniform.  Most of this was started by staff/office folks that were told they HAD to wear BDUs and they decided to starch them to make it as sharp as their blues.  Over time, it became an unwritten standard and those of us that were actually working in those uniforms would get looked down on (or deity forbid actually counseled) about our appearance.  I would press my BDUs everytime they came out of the wash (and sometimes in the middle of the week), but I wasn't going to starch a uniform I was going to take into the field.  It made no sense.  THAT'S why Big Blue decided to make the no starch rule (well...that and the fact that if you get hit by an infrared illuminator, you'll light up like a beacon under night vision gear).

I'm already starting to see it in the AD world.  There's a LT I see around base occasionally that has the collar and lapels of his ABUs sewn down.  IMHO, it just looks ridiculous on a utility uniform. You don't have to look like a duffel bag -- take pride in the uniform, but you don't have to make the pants stand up by themselves either.

[Holding Pattern]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

Deity of choice forbid members actually look sharp.

Let's make sure that never happens again.

You can look sharp without starching a crease that'll almost cut you into a UTILITY uniform.  Most of this was started by staff/office folks that were told they HAD to wear BDUs and they decided to starch them to make it as sharp as their blues.  Over time, it became an unwritten standard and those of us that were actually working in those uniforms would get looked down on (or deity forbid actually counseled) about our appearance.  I would press my BDUs everytime they came out of the wash (and sometimes in the middle of the week), but I wasn't going to starch a uniform I was going to take into the field.  It made no sense.  THAT'S why Big Blue decided to make the no starch rule (well...that and the fact that if you get hit by an infrared illuminator, you'll light up like a beacon under night vision gear).

I'm already starting to see it in the AD world.  There's a LT I see around base occasionally that has the collar and lapels of his ABUs sewn down.  IMHO, it just looks ridiculous on a utility uniform. You don't have to look like a duffel bag -- take pride in the uniform, but you don't have to make the pants stand up by themselves either.

As a bit of humor, I know someone who took their BDUs to the dry cleaner and asked for "pressed, no starch" and they missed the starch memo.

Those BDUs could have in fact cut bystanders.

[Spaceman3750]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

Deity of choice forbid members actually look sharp.

Let's make sure that never happens again.

I'll let my actions and my results tell the story of what kind of professional I am. If someone is so vein that they ignore results over whether or not boots have a mirror finish or a work uniform has creases, they're probably not the person whose opinions I care about. I think you said it best once  (and I'm paraphrasing here) - if you have confidence in your skills, then the opinions of others are irrelevant.

I try not to look like a sack of crap, but you won't see me ironing my bbdu's - I have better things to do.

[Eclipse]

You can look sharp without starching a crease that'll almost cut you into a UTILITY uniform.  Most of this was started by staff/office folks that were told they HAD to wear BDUs and they decided to starch them to make it as sharp as their blues.  Over time, it became an unwritten standard and those of us that were actually working in those uniforms would get looked down on (or deity forbid actually counseled) about our appearance.  I would press my BDUs everytime they came out of the wash (and sometimes in the middle of the week), but I wasn't going to starch a uniform I was going to take into the field.  It made no sense.  THAT'S why Big Blue decided to make the no starch rule (well...that and the fact that if you get hit by an infrared illuminator, you'll light up like a beacon under night vision gear).

I'm already starting to see it in the AD world.  There's a LT I see around base occasionally that has the collar and lapels of his ABUs sewn down.  IMHO, it just looks ridiculous on a utility uniform. You don't have to look like a duffel bag -- take pride in the uniform, but you don't have to make the pants stand up by themselves either.

What is missed in a CAP context is that for many members, especially cadets, the field uniform is the one they wear the most,
most likely to be largely ignored by mom and dad, left in a lump on the bedroom floor, and for many, many members never worn in any environment
outside a regular meeting or encampment.

Worn in a meeting-only context, a properly ironed set of BDUs can probably be worn 2-3 times per washing, ironing, cleaners, etc.
for most members that's possibly a month or two if dress uniforms and PT are accounted for?  Hardly the herculean of maintenance
which seems a Rubicon.

As to even bringing up the idea of IR luminescence in a CAP context, whether starch, laundry detergent, or mil-spec vs. other vendor,
that's totally irrelevant.

A shoe-shine kit is still required gear for GTMs, that's ridiculous, and shows how much CAP tries to emulate a military model
over common sense when copy/pasting curriculum.  No one expects someone to be starched and clean after a real day in a
real field in 85 weather plus FLWG humidity.

But there's nothing wrong with CAP members pressing ABUs, BDUs, or CFUs, especially in a public-facing environment,
or a situation like an encampment where you're being judged on appearance.

Field performance bravado and uniform appearance are not mutually exclusive, and those who
portend they are are usually showing other cards as well.

People notice.

[PHall]

ABU's do not need to be ironed and they really, really do not need to be starched.
If you follow the instructions on the care label on the blouse and trousers, i.e. Premament Press cycle and remove from dryer as soon as they're dry. They will look good.
They were made to not need ironing.

[SarDragon]

A well polished boot has advantages beyond looking pretty. Polishing improved the water resistance, and makes them easier to clean when they get dirty/muddy.

[kwe1009]

ABU's do not need to be ironed and they really, really do not need to be starched.
If you follow the instructions on the care label on the blouse and trousers, i.e. Premament Press cycle and remove from dryer as soon as they're dry. They will look good.
They were made to not need ironing.

I have a set of ABUs that is about 3 years old and there are pretty good (not razor sharp) creases in the pants and shirt.  I just put them in the washer and dryer.  I don't even iron them.  I've had them folded in a suitcase and they still looked great when I unpacked them. 

[rmutchler]

RABU recommendations straight from DLATS description:
The RABU is a wash and wear item. Starching and hot pressing of RABU's is prohibited. Dry cleaning, starching and hot pressing will deteriorate the fiber in the uniform and shorten the wear life

https://www.shopmyexchange.com/dlats-rabu-coat/5282006

[PHall]

RABU recommendations straight from DLATS description:
The RABU is a wash and wear item. Starching and hot pressing of RABU's is prohibited. Dry cleaning, starching and hot pressing will deteriorate the fiber in the uniform and shorten the wear life

https://www.shopmyexchange.com/dlats-rabu-coat/5282006

And yet some members think that all uniforms must be starched. Anything less would not be showing respect to the uniform.

[Luis R. Ramos]

The expectations for a Ground Team include the 4 rs.

A shoe-shine kit is still required gear for GTMs, that's ridiculous.... No one expects someone to be starched and clean after a real day in a real field in 85 weather plus FLWG humidity.

After a day in the field no expectation to be starched and clean.

But remember the shoe shine kit is included in the 5-day pack. Not in the 24-hour pack. 

Or do you want your ground team to stay, in the case of a five-day mission dirty, and to begin each day looking worse?

If you think including a shoe shine kit in your gear is ridiculous and you rant against that, remember that part of your gear also includes taking an extra uniform. Why not rant against that also?

Clean uniform with lousy looking boots? To me that is ridiculous...

[RNOfficer]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

Starch makes a cotton uniform non-breathable, which defeats the purpose of a field uniform.

I was in the USMC, which is somewhat known for its concern for uniform sharpness. It was a court-martial offense to starch or dry clean the utility uniform.

[jdh]

You can look sharp without starching a crease that'll almost cut you into a UTILITY uniform.  Most of this was started by staff/office folks that were told they HAD to wear BDUs and they decided to starch them to make it as sharp as their blues.  Over time, it became an unwritten standard and those of us that were actually working in those uniforms would get looked down on (or deity forbid actually counseled) about our appearance.  I would press my BDUs everytime they came out of the wash (and sometimes in the middle of the week), but I wasn't going to starch a uniform I was going to take into the field.  It made no sense.  THAT'S why Big Blue decided to make the no starch rule (well...that and the fact that if you get hit by an infrared illuminator, you'll light up like a beacon under night vision gear).

I'm already starting to see it in the AD world.  There's a LT I see around base occasionally that has the collar and lapels of his ABUs sewn down.  IMHO, it just looks ridiculous on a utility uniform. You don't have to look like a duffel bag -- take pride in the uniform, but you don't have to make the pants stand up by themselves either.

What is missed in a CAP context is that for many members, especially cadets, the field uniform is the one they wear the most,
most likely to be largely ignored by mom and dad, left in a lump on the bedroom floor, and for many, many members never worn in any environment
outside a regular meeting or encampment.

Worn in a meeting-only context, a properly ironed set of BDUs can probably be worn 2-3 times per washing, ironing, cleaners, etc.
for most members that's possibly a month or two if dress uniforms and PT are accounted for?  Hardly the herculean of maintenance
which seems a Rubicon.

As to even bringing up the idea of IR luminescence in a CAP context, whether starch, laundry detergent, or mil-spec vs. other vendor,
that's totally irrelevant.

A shoe-shine kit is still required gear for GTMs, that's ridiculous, and shows how much CAP tries to emulate a military model
over common sense when copy/pasting curriculum.  No one expects someone to be starched and clean after a real day in a
real field in 85 weather plus FLWG humidity.

But there's nothing wrong with CAP members pressing ABUs, BDUs, or CFUs, especially in a public-facing environment,
or a situation like an encampment where you're being judged on appearance.

Field performance bravado and uniform appearance are not mutually exclusive, and those who
portend they are are usually showing other cards as well.

People notice.

The polish protects the boots and help to improve water resistance.

[Eclipse]

The polish protects the boots and help to improve water resistance.

Or you could just buy waterproof boots that don't require polish.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Waterproof boots...

In a dry day when there is no rain it is akin to starching your BDUs...

Retains humidity and heat...

[Eclipse]

Waterproof boots...

In a dry day when there is no rain it is akin to starching your BDUs...

Sympatex disagrees with you.

Water & BBP proof, comfortable on the hottest days.

[DoubleSecret]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

Starch makes a cotton uniform non-breathable, which defeats the purpose of a field uniform.

I was in the USMC, which is somewhat known for its concern for uniform sharpness. It was a court-martial offense to starch or dry clean the utility uniform.

Just curious ... are there any published cases where someone was tried by court-martial for starching or dry cleaning their utility uniform?

[Spaceman3750]

Waterproof boots...

In a dry day when there is no rain it is akin to starching your BDUs...

Retains humidity and heat...

Enter the magic of foot powder...

[PHall]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

Starch makes a cotton uniform non-breathable, which defeats the purpose of a field uniform.

I was in the USMC, which is somewhat known for its concern for uniform sharpness. It was a court-martial offense to starch or dry clean the utility uniform.

Just curious ... are there any published cases where someone was tried by court-martial for starching or dry cleaning their utility uniform?

I doubt very seriously that anybody actually was court-martialled. But I have no doubt who-so-ever that Marines have received NJP, aka Article 15's for this.
Marines hand out NJP like it's candy.

[SarDragon]

The Marines call it "Office Hours", and it's an interesting evolution to participate in as a witness. Much more fun than a Captain's Mast in the same capacity.

[raivo]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if that rule disappears in the next few years and starching ABUs becomes a de facto requirement, the same way it did with the BDU.

[rmutchler]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if that rule disappears in the next few years and starching ABUs becomes a de facto requirement, the same way it did with the BDU.

There is no rule to starch ABUs.  The recommendation from DLATS is to not starch, hot press or dry clean according to the product description

[LSThiker]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if that rule disappears in the next few years and starching ABUs becomes a de facto requirement, the same way it did with the BDU.

There is no rule to starch ABUs.  The recommendation from DLATS is to not starch, hot press or dry clean according to the product description

Yes there is a rule about starching ABUs from the USAF, that is not too:

AFI 36-2903, Chapter 5.1:

Do not starch or hot  press  the  ABU.  Light  ironing  and  center  creasing  of  enlisted  chevrons  is  authorized;  however,  repeated  hot  pressing  or  heavy  ironing  will  accelerate  the  overall  wear  of  the  fabric.

However, there was also a no starching the BDUs but that simply disappeared over time even though the product care tag kept saying do not starch the BDUs. 

[Eclipse]

The tags say what they say, so do the AFIs, but "accelerating the wear" isn't relevent in a CAP context, either.

Not when the average member wears them maybe 8 hours a month on the high side and a couple weeks in the year.

[LSThiker]

The tags say what they say, so do the AFIs, but "accelerating the wear" isn't relevent in a CAP context, either.

Not when the average member wears them maybe 8 hours a month on the high side and a couple weeks in the year.

No one said it was.  The topic shifted to NJP and rules for starching.

[stillamarine]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

Starch makes a cotton uniform non-breathable, which defeats the purpose of a field uniform.

I was in the USMC, which is somewhat known for its concern for uniform sharpness. It was a court-martial offense to starch or dry clean the utility uniform.

Since when? When I was in we starched our cammies. Heavily. You could always tell someone that had been to Oki by the heavy amounts of starch that Mamasan used that lasted for years. Hell I have a pair now, almost 20 years later that if I ironed them they'd probably stand up on their own.

[stillamarine]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

Starch makes a cotton uniform non-breathable, which defeats the purpose of a field uniform.

I was in the USMC, which is somewhat known for its concern for uniform sharpness. It was a court-martial offense to starch or dry clean the utility uniform.

Just curious ... are there any published cases where someone was tried by court-martial for starching or dry cleaning their utility uniform?

I doubt very seriously that anybody actually was court-martialled. But I have no doubt who-so-ever that Marines have received NJP, aka Article 15's for this.
Marines hand out NJP like it's candy.

Although I agree on the handing out office hours like candy (In my time you weren't a real Marine til you had at least one) but I doubt anyone got it for this reason.

[PHall]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

Starch makes a cotton uniform non-breathable, which defeats the purpose of a field uniform.

I was in the USMC, which is somewhat known for its concern for uniform sharpness. It was a court-martial offense to starch or dry clean the utility uniform.

Just curious ... are there any published cases where someone was tried by court-martial for starching or dry cleaning their utility uniform?

I doubt very seriously that anybody actually was court-martialled. But I have no doubt who-so-ever that Marines have received NJP, aka Article 15's for this.
Marines hand out NJP like it's candy.

Although I agree on the handing out office hours like candy (In my time you weren't a real Marine til you had at least one) but I doubt anyone got it for this reason.

Staff Sergeant and the First Sergeant may have a differing opinion!

[stillamarine]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

Starch makes a cotton uniform non-breathable, which defeats the purpose of a field uniform.

I was in the USMC, which is somewhat known for its concern for uniform sharpness. It was a court-martial offense to starch or dry clean the utility uniform.

Just curious ... are there any published cases where someone was tried by court-martial for starching or dry cleaning their utility uniform?

I doubt very seriously that anybody actually was court-martialled. But I have no doubt who-so-ever that Marines have received NJP, aka Article 15's for this.
Marines hand out NJP like it's candy.

Although I agree on the handing out office hours like candy (In my time you weren't a real Marine til you had at least one) but I doubt anyone got it for this reason.

Staff Sergeant and the First Sergeant may have a differing opinion!

I was a SSGT. There were other ways for me to deal with a mope that didn't have a squared away uniform. And it was taken care of before First Sergeant saw it....

[PHall]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

Starch makes a cotton uniform non-breathable, which defeats the purpose of a field uniform.

I was in the USMC, which is somewhat known for its concern for uniform sharpness. It was a court-martial offense to starch or dry clean the utility uniform.

Just curious ... are there any published cases where someone was tried by court-martial for starching or dry cleaning their utility uniform?

I doubt very seriously that anybody actually was court-martialled. But I have no doubt who-so-ever that Marines have received NJP, aka Article 15's for this.
Marines hand out NJP like it's candy.

Although I agree on the handing out office hours like candy (In my time you weren't a real Marine til you had at least one) but I doubt anyone got it for this reason.

Staff Sergeant and the First Sergeant may have a differing opinion!

I was a SSGT. There were other ways for me to deal with a mope that didn't have a squared away uniform. And it was taken care of before First Sergeant saw it....

I thought that First Sergeants were omnipresent. They saw everything!

[stillamarine]

I hope they clarify the wear instructions for the ABUs in regards to starch/iron. The Air Force doesn't allow starching. You can press it, but you can't press creases into it. I hope CAP comes up with something like that. I've seen BDUs so starched down they might as well be a dress uniform.

Starch makes a cotton uniform non-breathable, which defeats the purpose of a field uniform.

I was in the USMC, which is somewhat known for its concern for uniform sharpness. It was a court-martial offense to starch or dry clean the utility uniform.

Just curious ... are there any published cases where someone was tried by court-martial for starching or dry cleaning their utility uniform?

I doubt very seriously that anybody actually was court-martialled. But I have no doubt who-so-ever that Marines have received NJP, aka Article 15's for this.
Marines hand out NJP like it's candy.

Although I agree on the handing out office hours like candy (In my time you weren't a real Marine til you had at least one) but I doubt anyone got it for this reason.

Staff Sergeant and the First Sergeant may have a differing opinion!

I was a SSGT. There were other ways for me to deal with a mope that didn't have a squared away uniform. And it was taken care of before First Sergeant saw it....

I thought that First Sergeants were omnipresent. They saw everything!

Not if you have a good SSGT. 

[RNOfficer]

That feeling, of actually wanting to have starched field uniforms and spit-shined boots runs deep on some...

I have seen photos of US Army soldiers in 1939-1940s where they actually wore ties to the field.

Those guys want to impress...

With their work dress...

Patton was infamous for fining doggies caught without their neckties even in combat areas. As is well known, the only way to escape c-t is to be well forward where mission and survival trump all.(former USMC Vietnam)

[grunt82abn]

That feeling, of actually wanting to have starched field uniforms and spit-shined boots runs deep on some...

I have seen photos of US Army soldiers in 1939-1940s where they actually wore ties to the field.

Those guys want to impress...

With their work dress...

Patton was infamous for fining doggies caught without their neckties even in combat areas. As is well known, the only way to escape c-t is to be well forward where mission and survival trump all.(former USMC Vietnam)

In the 82nd ABN, we had two sets of BDU's, one for the field and one starched and spit shined for garrison. That all changed with suede boots and ACUs. Thank you for your service, you guys set the standards for my generation!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

[8416w]

I just received notification that my order has shipped from Vanguard. Since the website does not have pictures of the new badges, I am curious to see if they improved their embroidery.