Should CAP Solo Wings be Only for Cadets?

[Eagle400]

Currently, both CAP cadets and officers can wear the solo wings.

They are based on the cadet solo wings for both AFROTC and USAFA.

Because of this, should the CAP solo wings be authorized only for cadets?

[O-Rex]

They are based on the cadet solo wings for both AFROTC and USAFA.

And on that premise, you don't see Commissioned USAF officers wearing them. . . . .

[Eagle400]

And on that premise, you don't see Commissioned USAF officers wearing them. . . . .

Right.  That's why I believe CAP officers shouldn't be wearing the CAP solo wings. 

[SarDragon]

And on that premise, you don't see Commissioned USAF officers wearing them. . . . .

Right.  That's why I believe CAP officers shouldn't be wearing the CAP solo wings. 

And whyzat? An SM works just as hard to get his as a cadet does. If cadets can be CAP pilots, then SMs should be able to show the equivalent levels of achievement as cadets.

Go troll somewhere else.

[DNall]

I tend to agree actually that they should not be for adults, just as the cadet program is not for adults, and hopefully adults don't need a shiney or colorful new trinket every other month to motivate them to get things done. Hopefully their brains have developed a bit over the years & they can take the long view that they are getting their pilot's license for the right reasons & not for something to wear on a uniform. Gosh that'd be really expensive decoration.

[O-Rex]

Solo wings are awarded only to Cadets.

By the time the cadet transitions to Senior, he/she should move-on (operationally) to OBS or MTP/MO

A CAP Major with solo wings is cheesy, and mil folks snicker when the see it.

[shorning]

So do we take away the NCSA patches for senior too?  To we prohibit cadets from wearing specialty track badges is it is a program designed for seniors?  Using the AFROTC/USAFA argument, do we take pilot wings away from cadets since those organizations don't allow cadets to wear them?

Where do you draw the line?

[Major Carrales]

I tend to think that, as a non-pilot, if a non-pilot comes to CAP and takes instruction (of course outside of CAP) that, as a motivation of Aerospace Education, they might be deserving of a set of solo wings when that stage is reached.

The reason is that I consider it a personal milestone go through instruction and become a pilot.  I would even go as far to to say we should encourage and support (morally and acedemically) CAP Officers in their aviation growth.


Once a CAP Officer finishes and becomes an MP or MO they will no longer need or wear solo wings.  I guess it my be a sort of transitional thing learning pilots.

Since I likely will not become a pilot anytime soon, due to finances and other diversions in CAP, this will not effect me one way or the other.

[shorning]

A CAP Major with solo wings is cheesy, and mil folks snicker when the see it.

I've got solo wings.  I've never had a military "folk" snicker at me.  Of course, I don't wear them often.  Should I feel like wearing wings, I'll wear my real ones, not CAP's.

[SarDragon]

Solo wings are awarded only to Cadets.

By the time the cadet transitions to Senior, he/she should move-on (operationally) to OBS or MTP/MO

A CAP Major with solo wings is cheesy, and mil folks snicker when the see it.

Emphasis mine.

According to CAPR 35-6:

b. CAP Solo Pilot Rating: Be qualified in accordance with CAPR 60-1.

According to CAPR 60-1:

b. CAP Solo Pilot. The following basic requirements must be met to be qualified as a CAP solo pilot in CAP aircraft:
(1) Be an active CAP member at least 16 years of age (for balloon or glider be age 14 or older).
(2) Possess a valid FAA student pilot certificate.
(3) Possess a valid, current medical certificate (not required for gliders or balloons).
(4) Have received the required instruction from an FAA authorized flight instructor (CFI/CFIG), have a written record documenting instruction, for the appropriate aircraft, in accordance with FAR 61.87, and possess a current solo endorsement IAW FARs from a CAP instructor pilot.
(5) CAP glider student pilots will have a minimum of thirty (30) dual instruction training flights and a properly documented logbook/training record ensuring all required areas of FAR 61.87, Solo Requirements for Student Pilots, are met prior to initial solo. First time, wing level or higher, glider encampment/academy students are restricted to CAP cadet pre-solo pilot qualification only.

Nowhere does it say cadets only.

[DNall]

NCSA patches off adults? Yeah that sounds fine too. And people can't snicker if you don't wear them in public.

[mikeylikey]

NCSA patches off adults? Yeah that sounds fine too. And people can't snicker if you don't wear them in public.

Ohhh....don't say that, you may get run down by a bunch of HAWK Rangers. 

I think as soon as CAP lets its Senior Members take flight lessons in CAP planes from CAP Pilots then we can wear our solo wings.  I have no good reasoning for that, except I want to see this happen.  They have no intention to allow it, and they suck for that!

[Eagle400]

And on that premise, you don't see Commissioned USAF officers wearing them. . . . .

Right.  That's why I believe CAP officers shouldn't be wearing the CAP solo wings. 

And whyzat? An SM works just as hard to get his as a cadet does. If cadets can be CAP pilots, then SMs should be able to show the equivalent levels of achievement as cadets.

I understand where you're coming from, sir.  But the CAP solo wings are designed after the cadet solo wings of AFROTC and USAFA.  That's why I believe they should only be worn by cadets.  I know when I become a senior, I won't wear mine.

Air Force officers don't have wings which denote a private pilot's license, so why should CAP officers?  The only wings in the Air Force (for officers) are the ones for pilots, navigators, air battle managers, astronauts, flight surgeons, flight nurses, and aircrew members.   

Go troll somewhere else.

Now sir, if Lt Col Horning can post in a topic I've authored without calling me a troll, so can you.  Deal? 

Besides, please show me how this thread is disrupting the operation of this online community, and any posts which are deliberately inflammatory.   

[BillB]

122, Hate to tell you this, but CAP had the solo wings before AFROTC or USAFA. Solo wings first appeared in the very early 1950's for CAP, They appeared for AFROTC in the late 50's (possibly early 60's., don't have the exact date). In the 1980's USAF published a brochure with the history of the various authorized wings of the 20th Century. And the information stated the AFROTC solo wings were designed from the CAP solo wings. Cost was a factor since the design and dies already existed and could be modified with little expense.

[LTC_Gadget]

USAF pilots don't earn private pilot  certificates automagically.  It's a separate process.  That's  why they don't wear them.  If they want private pilot certification, I think they still have to apply.

As for solo wings, I earned  mine as a cadet.  And until such time as I earned observer wings, you can bet your six that I wore them.  As I said I earned them.  Not 'half-wings' for trying, not a button for thinkin' about it, but a legitimate, authorized badge for doing it.  Had I not ever advanced to any other aeronautical rating, no matter what the reason, I'd still have earned them; which is still something that not everyone in the org does. Snicker if you want to, but it'll still be sour grapes.

I earned my IACE ribbon as a cadet.  So, since IACE is designed as a cadet special activity, by your "logic," I shouldn't wear that either..

You're just not thinkin' this through...

V/R,

[Major Carrales]

Air Force officers don't have wings which denote a private pilot's license, so why should CAP officers?  The only wings in the Air Force (for officers) are the ones for pilots, navigators, air battle managers, astronauts, flight surgeons, flight nurses, and aircrew members.   

For the umpteenth time, CAP and the USAF are vastly different organizations.   A private pilot's  license may carry little weight in the USAF, but it is the life breath of CAP.  

Should 1st Lt Juan Tufly, a CADET PROGRAMs GURU...descides to become a Private Pilot at his expense, why not note his achievement with solo wing when that stage is reached?  Once he gets his certificate...most likely he will eventually become a Mission Pilot, in time.

Thus, solo wings on a CAP Officer would say..."Look, I'm becoming a pilot" not, look "I've got useless BLING over my ribbons!" 

Plus, your agruement on the USAF is fundamentally flawed.  By your reasoning it seems that you would call for CAP specific navigators, air battle managers, astronauts, flight surgeons, flight nurses, and aircrew members.   Is that your intent?

[FARRIER]

USAF pilots don't earn private pilot  certificates automagically.  It's a separate process.  That's  why they don't wear them.  If they want private pilot certification, I think they still have to apply

That is correct. Not a direct quote from the regulations but from talking with Air Transport Pilots and Flight Engineers, who were former military aviators, they just have test out/take the practical. 

[Eagle400]

For the umpteenth time, CAP and the USAF are vastly different organizations.   A private pilot's  license may carry little weight in the USAF, but it is the life breath of CAP.

I wouldn't say a private pilot's license is the life breath of CAP... volunteerism is more like the life breath of CAP.    

Should 1st Lt Juan Tufly, a CADET PROGRAMs GURU...descides to become a Private Pilot at his expense, why not note his achievement with solo wing when that stage is reached?  Once he gets his certificate...most likely he will eventually become a Mission Pilot, in time.

Thus, solo wings on a CAP Officer would say..."Look, I'm becoming a pilot" not, look "I've got useless BLING over my ribbons!"

I understand.  I didn't mean to imply that solo wings are "useless bling."

Plus, your agruement on the USAF is fundamentally flawed.  By your reasoning it seems that you would call for CAP specific navigators, air battle managers, astronauts, flight surgeons, flight nurses, and aircrew members.   Is that your intent?

No, that is not my intent sir.  My intent is to argue for CAP solo wings only for cadets because that's the way it is with solo wings in the Air Force.   

[Major Carrales]

I wouldn't say a private pilot's license is the life breath of CAP... volunteerism is more like the life breath of CAP.   

Normally I would agree, but if it were not for ALL ELEMENTS of CAP, including the Pilots, Cadets and Ground elements.  We could not be viable.  Part of the WHOLE CAP APPROACH is that all elements are of equal value.  There would be no CIVIL AIR PATROL, without private pilots.  Thus, I see no harm in giving "solo wings" to a CAP Officer who has soloed.  It would be a positive sign that one of our number is taking to the air. 

I understand.  I didn't mean to imply that solo wings are "useless bling."

I understand...however, the tenor of your writing seems to suggest that a CAP Officer's SOLO WING would somehow be lesser than that of a CAP CADET.   I should point out, as a friend, that you lack some gravitas on this board and, while you and I have never been anything but respectful, there are those that have a biased view...biased in the negative slant, towards you.

That having been expressed, you will have to choose your words carefully if you are to avoid that situation. 

No, that is not my intent sir.  My intent is to argue for CAP solo wings only for cadets because that's the way it is with solo wings in the Air Force.   

Respectfully, I go back to my main point.  CAP and the USAF are fundamentally different.  There are processes and traditions that are just as different.  That is not to say we should not try to emulate them; but rather, that there are going to be differences and "distinctive" elements to both.

I would submit that the wear of solo wings by CAP Officers enrolled in flight training who have soloed would/could be one such place for a distinction.

[Major Lord]

My reading of the regs is that that Cadets earn solo wings by going to an NCSA, to wit, National Flight Academy. You can't earn solo wings from your FBO, it has to be a CAP AC. Not many Seniors have soloed in CAP AC, and for darn sure, no Seniors have have soloed at Flight Encampment! I suppose a cadet who transitioned to Senior could keep his solo wings, if it was the highest award he earned....But since we don't send C/A1C's to NCSA's that seems unlikely.

Capt. Lord