Complimentary membership for retiring USAF officers.

[afgeo4]

What do you guys think of CAP membership automatically being given to retiring USAF officers? At least for 1 year?

It keeps them with the USAF family, keeps them from deployments and at home (which is why they're retiring), and at the same time says "you may be old, but you aren't useless". We get experienced leaders, pilots, engineers, scientists, logisticians, personnel, finance, etc officers. Typically these men and women are O-4 and above and bring a ton of experience and skills with them.

[Eagle400]

I think it's a cool idea.  It would be a great way to say "Thank you for your service", as well as a good incentive for joining.  Only thing is I think it would be best for it to be extended to retiring servicemembers from all branches.     

[mikeylikey]

Agreed cool idea!  Lets recruit them before they are even thinking of retiring.  It seems useless to me that a CAP SQD meets on a AF station, base etc.....and the numbers aren't shooting through the roof.  AF Officer Pro Dev should have an entire section on the Auxiliary.  That way they are at least aware of it.

[lordmonar]

Why just retiring officers....what about us enlisted guys?

[JohnKachenmeister]

What about retirees from other branches?

[afgeo4]

Well my original thought was of how to gain qualified pilots with their transport ticket already punched and enough hours for... well anything really. I thought the best people for that would be retiring military pilots. I think it's just easier to pipeline if it's USAF simply because we're a part of USAF and we're governed by the secretary of the Air Force. They could simply integrate us in on paper and since at least 4 of our BoG members are USAF, it shouldn't be much of an issue on our side. Then I thought that maybe extending it to all officers might benefit the rest of our program as well. I thought that making membership complimentary for at least a year was good, but if we offer it to all branches, we'd have to deal with a lot of memberships given away, a lot of people to transform into the AF culture, and difficult set up of the automatic enrollment at retirement since it's a different system.

Enlisted are a whole other bunch of wax. Look, I'm prior enlisted myself and I'd have to say that although we have a lot of brains, brawn and know-how, we aren't of that much use to CAP as we are. At least as long as CAP doesn't have a real NCO program. 90% of us end up as leadership officers in cadet squadrons and I don't think there's a shortage of us anyway. I thought up this program to try to alleviate the shortage of pilots and qualified middle/senior leadership in CAP.

[RiverAux]

Not a bad idea, but it would depend on the AF giving out personal information about their members to CAP and there may or may not be legal issues with that.  I think we would have to make this a fairly limited program since at the basic level we would have to send magazines out to these folks and that costs money.  No way to do it for all AF enlisted and officers. 

However, everybody getting out of the AF at any level should be given information on CAP.  A CAP brochure should be part of the packet. 

[Pylon]

If NHQ can't justify the cost of a free membership, they should think about a targeted recruiting program.

I envision a monthly list of retirees and honorable discharges gleaned from some source (somebody in the know can work on that; partnership with DOD or perhaps one of the associations/orgs.) going into a mail merge.  A colorful and customized CAP recruiting postcard is generated for everyone on the list.  

You have a handful of different postcards, each one with a handy-dandy professional photo on the front and slightly tailored information on the back.  There's one tailored to Army, Air Force, etc.  The database automatically culls the closet unit or two (or maybe the Group HQ?) based on the mailing zip and includes contact information/meeting location and time.

Each month's list would probably have enough postcards to send them non-profit bulk rate, which, for postcards, is fairly cheap.  Printing them digitally 4/1 on a 60# semi-gloss cardstock would also not be too cost prohibitive.

It sounds complicated, but if you're familiar with direct mail marketing, it's not difficult or expensive at all.  A quality color copier and a couple good pieces of software can easily knock this out in an hour or two each month, once properly set up.  

I'm all for local recruiting, but there also needs to be national-level programs designed to bolster national recruiting and awareness.  These types of things are normal for other major organizations; we need to be doing these things, too.

[Major Carrales]

A nice idea...but its viability in this state is precarious.

I would rather likely support reduced dues. 

Then there is the flood gate that many here have already opened.  You know, the "what about me..." paradox.  Justifiable cases can be made for free membership for a host of other issues.

Now, create a version of it that I can support.

[afgeo4]

I wasn't thinking that CAP would get a list of retirees. I was thinking of making a new membership form that NHQ could distribute to the Air Force through the Secretary's office and they would include that into the outprocessing paperwork for separation along with a regular brochure. Once that special application is sent in along with a copy of the DD214 it would be processed for a free 1 year membership.

What if's happen all the time, everywhere. There has to be a limit. I would say if such a program works with USAF, perhaps it could be extended, but you know... we are the US Air Force auxiliary, so I think it's only fair that a transition such as this be made available for US Air Force personnel.

[desert rat]

I think all active duty and retirees should be free to join.  I would not mind donating to this fund for seniors.

[SAR-EMT1]

I would support such a program, IF you could show me a viable way to implement it.

[FARRIER]

Well my original thought was of how to gain qualified pilots with their transport ticket already punched and enough hours for... well anything really.

There is a pool of such perspective members out there. They are called airline pilots.  And roughly half are current or former military pilots. Pylons suggestion would be more workable. 

[Fifinella]

I wasn't thinking that CAP would get a list of retirees. I was thinking of making a new membership form that NHQ could distribute to the Air Force through the Secretary's office and they would include that into the outprocessing paperwork for separation along with a regular brochure. Once that special application is sent in along with a copy of the DD214 it would be processed for a free 1 year membership.

What if's happen all the time, everywhere. There has to be a limit. I would say if such a program works with USAF, perhaps it could be extended, but you know... we are the US Air Force auxiliary, so I think it's only fair that a transition such as this be made available for US Air Force personnel.

I had also been wondering why we don't recruit people at separation/retirement.  Separatees are briefed about Guard & Reserve "opportunities".  Why not add CAP to the brief?

[afgeo4]

The DoD WILL NOT release personnel information to CAP, plain and simple. It's illegal. The point is to insert ourselves into their separation briefing as an option, as stated earlier, they are briefed on Reserve and ANG, so why not us?

[Fifinella]

Ummm, that's what I said.  We are vehemently agreeing with each other.

[capchiro]

Perhaps we could get a public service type message or ad into the Air Force Times, Army Times, etc.  As you know, our biggest problems is that we are the best kept secret around.  I would think the AF Times, etc., would be glad to do that for us and maybe even run an annual story on the Air Force's little brother.  This type of exposure would be seen by military types and some would be reaching the time of retirement/separation.  What do you think?

[SAR-EMT1]

Go for it. - And good luck

[Lancer]

If NHQ can't justify the cost of a free membership, they should think about a targeted recruiting program.

Agreed. And if not free, how about tiered based on rank?

E-1 thru E-4 25% off membership
E-5 thru E-9 50% off membership
O-1 thru O-4 75% off membership
O-5 thru O-11 Free

This is just one of many ways of bolstering our ranks with military skilled members who can impart their knowledge to our cadets and non-military members.

[Major Carrales]

If NHQ can't justify the cost of a free membership, they should think about a targeted recruiting program.

Agreed. And if not free, how about tiered based on rank?

E-1 thru E-4 25% off membership
E-5 thru E-9 50% off membership
O-1 thru O-4 75% off membership
O-5 thru O-11 Free

This is just one of many ways of bolstering our ranks with military skilled members who can impart their knowledge to our cadets and non-military members.

Do they get a tote bag with their membership?...ooops, that PBS not CAP

[Psicorp]

If NHQ can't justify the cost of a free membership, they should think about a targeted recruiting program.

Agreed. And if not free, how about tiered based on rank?

E-1 thru E-4 25% off membership
E-5 thru E-9 50% off membership
O-1 thru O-4 75% off membership
O-5 thru O-11 Free

This is just one of many ways of bolstering our ranks with military skilled members who can impart their knowledge to our cadets and non-military members.

I'd love to see this sort of thing done mainly for the enlisted side.  Why should Officers be given a larger discount? 

[MIKE]

Agreed. And if not free, how about tiered based on rank?

E-1 thru E-4 25% off membership
E-5 thru E-9 50% off membership
O-1 thru O-4 75% off membership
O-5 thru O-11 Free

Shouldn't that be reversed?

[Major Carrales]

Agreed. And if not free, how about tiered based on rank?

E-1 thru E-4 25% off membership
E-5 thru E-9 50% off membership
O-1 thru O-4 75% off membership
O-5 thru O-11 Free

Shouldn't that be reversed?

Actually, this is all the more reason not to do something like that. 

Let every CAP Memeber be an equal.  Offer Prior service RETIREEs some other carrot, a better carrot. 

Allow retired CAP officers of 20 years or more CAP service get LIFE MEMBERSHIP.

[Lancer]

Agreed. And if not free, how about tiered based on rank?

E-1 thru E-4 25% off membership
E-5 thru E-9 50% off membership
O-1 thru O-4 75% off membership
O-5 thru O-11 Free

Shouldn't that be reversed?

In the scheme of things, such as affording CAP, Y-E-S, YES, but the initial idea is to draw in the folks with 'the most bang'.

I'm not saying an E-1 has any less to offer than an O-11, in fact, in all reality, you'll probably get more 'mileage' out of an enlisted/NCO at the squadron/group level than anything a highly decorated Colonel or General could provide. Stick those folks at the Wing level to hob knob with local and state officials.

[afgeo4]

You guys are sort of missing the point I think.

This program is to alleviate the shortage of well qualified pilots in CAP and to improve our professional image by bolstering our numbers with experienced, skilled and well-connected officers. Another side effect would probably be an improvement in the relationship between USAF and CAP.

If we had a solid NCO program and corps I would definitely recommend doing something like this for the enlisted, but we don't. I also don't want CAP to give out thousands of free memberships a year to just about everyone who's ever put on a uniform. This would be a targeted program with specific goals in mind.

[SarDragon]

If NHQ can't justify the cost of a free membership, they should think about a targeted recruiting program.

Agreed. And if not free, how about tiered based on rank?

E-1 thru E-4 25% off membership
E-5 thru E-9 50% off membership
O-1 thru O-4 75% off membership
O-5 thru O-11 Free

This is just one of many ways of bolstering our ranks with military skilled members who can impart their knowledge to our cadets and non-military members.

Why not the other way around? Give the freebie to the folks who can least afford it.

[shorning]

If NHQ can't justify the cost of a free membership, they should think about a targeted recruiting program.

Agreed. And if not free, how about tiered based on rank?

E-1 thru E-4 25% off membership
E-5 thru E-9 50% off membership
O-1 thru O-4 75% off membership
O-5 thru O-11 Free

This is just one of many ways of bolstering our ranks with military skilled members who can impart their knowledge to our cadets and non-military members.

Why not the other way around? Give the freebie to the folks who can least afford it.

I certainly would flip that.  The way it's shown is like giving a Denny's gift certificate to Bill Gates.  Besides, you're going to give an O-1 without much to contribute a higher discount than an E-9?!?  You've got that bassackwards...

[Lancer]

What George is proposing is a way to bring in highly skilled former military officers to enhance our ranks and 'knowledge share' to enhance our overall membership. Doing this would also help our relationships with existing military and state and local officials, IMHO.

The only reason I suggested a tiered discount is because Mike said 'If NHQ can't justify the cost of a free membership'. There needs to be some kind of incentive to bring them on board. Figuring out what that incentive is, is what we should be discussing. Not whether a discount based on rank is fair towards the lesser paid membership of the military. If you recall, I said 'YES', that I agreed with MIKE that in the scheme of a generalized discount for military folks is a good idea.

We've really skewed this into two different topics.

[fyrfitrmedic]

 NHQ can't even justify comping non-serial 50-year members; somehow I don't think they'd buy into this plan either.

[desert rat]

Why not ask for donations to make this program a go?   I siad it before and I still say it, I would donate for this cause.   I have also offered to pay dues for members that could not afford it at my squadron.

If someone was highly involved with running a squadron, then I think the squadron should have funds to help offset or even pay the costs of membership if there is financial need.  This is what fundraising should strive for.  On the other hand, if a person does not get involved with CAP other than joining, and a few times a year show up  to a SAREX, (not contributing to the squadron function) I say they do not deserve to have help with membership fees.  We need some committment before throwing funds around.

[afgeo4]

What does NHQ spend on a new member? The cost of the initial welcome package? What are they REALLY losing? I propose that the membership cost would be complimentary for the 1st year. After that, all normal membership renewal costs would be in effect. The first year free is to entice them to try it.

[Major Carrales]

What does NHQ spend on a new member? The cost of the initial welcome package? What are they REALLY losing? I propose that the membership cost would be complimentary for the 1st year. After that, all normal membership renewal costs would be in effect. The first year free is to entice them to try it.

Why not start them in the Patron unit at $35 to observe CAP activity in their area and then make a choice to commit?  The transition to active is as easy as a fingerprint card and a transfer.  Plus, we don't need any new policy.

I still feel that if one person pays for membership (be it 25, 30, 35 or 75 dollars) it woudl be bad business to let some in for free, even with active service experience.  It might also promote a more clear division between priors and non-priors. 

Devil's Advocacy SENARIO (and just that because faith untested is never free from issues in need of resolution):

Capt Lt I. M. Awarmbody, USAF (ret) tries a unit and get full membership for no dues.  Long time squadron memebers who are active are told, "well, he's prior service...he's pays no dues... He's our messiah!!! Isn't his ribbon rack cool!!! Let make him the SQUADRON COMMANDER since he is prior service."

Some non-prior service types and those of prior service types question their membership.   Some fail to renew...citing they don't wish to be in a unit where their years of service come unrewarded.  The CAPT Awarmbody, CAP sees the unit dying and...since it was free anyway, elects not to remain active.  A unit in turmoil and a revolving door in and our of the unit.

One can excuse a person getting away with $35 for active CAP service, but what about Mr. 20 year ACTIVE CAP Officer who has done a lot of actual measurable duty to CAP and paid money ad inifinitim who still has to pay full while a "johny-come-lately" gets free pay for having done nothing for CAP?


I await commentary on this...

[RogueLeader]

If NHQ can't justify the cost of a free membership, they should think about a targeted recruiting program.

Agreed. And if not free, how about tiered based on rank?

E-1 thru E-4 25% off membership
E-5 thru E-9 50% off membership
O-1 thru O-4 75% off membership
O-5 thru O-11 Free

This is just one of many ways of bolstering our ranks with military skilled members who can impart their knowledge to our cadets and non-military members.

Do they get a tote bag with their membership?...

And a free reversed flag if they bring in an additional person.

[Al Sayre]

Major C., your point is well taken.  A long time ago, I took an NRA Instructor's course and one of the things they stressed was charging for your course/time to ensure attendance.  The gist of it is if someone pays for the course, they are more likely to show up and pay attention.  In the case of a free course, they have nothing to lose by not showing up.

[afgeo4]

What does NHQ spend on a new member? The cost of the initial welcome package? What are they REALLY losing? I propose that the membership cost would be complimentary for the 1st year. After that, all normal membership renewal costs would be in effect. The first year free is to entice them to try it.

Why not start them in the Patron unit at $35 to observe CAP activity in their area and then make a choice to commit?  The transition to active is as easy as a fingerprint card and a transfer.  Plus, we don't need any new policy.

I still feel that if one person pays for membership (be it 25, 30, 35 or 75 dollars) it woudl be bad business to let some in for free, even with active service experience.  It might also promote a more clear division between priors and non-priors. 

Devil's Advocacy SENARIO (and just that because faith untested is never free from issues in need of resolution):

Capt Lt I. M. Awarmbody, USAF (ret) tries a unit and get full membership for no dues.  Long time squadron memebers who are active are told, "well, he's prior service...he's pays no dues... He's our messiah!!! Isn't his ribbon rack cool!!! Let make him the SQUADRON COMMANDER since he is prior service."

Some non-prior service types and those of prior service types question their membership.   Some fail to renew...citing they don't wish to be in a unit where their years of service come unrewarded.  The CAPT Awarmbody, CAP sees the unit dying and...since it was free anyway, elects not to remain active.  A unit in turmoil and a revolving door in and our of the unit.

One can excuse a person getting away with $35 for active CAP service, but what about Mr. 20 year ACTIVE CAP Officer who has done a lot of actual measurable duty to CAP and paid money ad inifinitim who still has to pay full while a "johny-come-lately" gets free pay for having done nothing for CAP?


I await commentary on this...

Do you give that explanation when you see a retiree get free healthcare too? How about when they get to shop at the BX/Commissary? Do you think it's fair that veterans get preferential treatment for government jobs? How about educational benefits? Do you have a problem with those?

If anyone, ANYONE in CAP has a problem with military retirees getting a one year benefit membership in CAP for free because they served their country honorable for 20 + years you show them the door. There's no room in CAP for people who don't respect military service and those who've done it honorably and for long enough to retire. This is the AIR FORCE AUXILIARY, not your neighborhood fat hairy guy drinking beer lodge.

I'm offended by the thought and I'm not even a retiree.

[Major Carrales]

Do you give that explanation when you see a retiree get free healthcare too? How about when they get to shop at the BX/Commissary? Do you think it's fair that veterans get preferential treatment for government jobs? How about educational benefits? Do you have a problem with those?

If anyone, ANYONE in CAP has a problem with military retirees getting a one year benefit membership in CAP for free because they served their country honorable for 20 + years you show them the door. There's no room in CAP for people who don't respect military service and those who've done it honorably and for long enough to retire. This is the AIR FORCE AUXILIARY, not your neighborhood fat hairy guy drinking beer lodge.

I'm offended by the thought and I'm not even a retiree.

Hold on there...take no offense. 

If you are going to present these "plans," you had better cover all the angles.  I only present the issue as a problem for you to tackle....solve and move on for the implementation.

The issue is not "hating prior service," but rather hating "special privilege."

In an organization where even those that do the least, or even those that do the most, don't get monetary compensation for their service...one could see free membership as just as insulting.

Why not give a Fireman or Policeman of equal time the same?...in theory such a public servant after 20 years of service to their community in Emergency Services might warrant the same treatment in a Civilian Auxiliary of the military.  This is a slipery-slope at its best/worst.

The fact is that the "realities" of the world smack up against the best laid plans of mice and men.  You still have provided no solution/resolution to the scenario.

I'm not your enemy here...I just want your idea to be beyond reproach and free from "soft spots."  You are using the pronoun "you" as if these are my personal beliefs.  The issues here are hypothetical in nature for you to address here, amid friends, before you have to encounter them as proposed by "wolves" at a later date.

[mikeylikey]

^^ Agree with the good Major above.  In fact I hate the idea of special promotions because someone comes in with a skill.  I spent more time in college than did the CFI in flight training but CAP makes him a Captain.  Reserve special appointments for those that are prior or current military ONLY.

Disclaimer:  I could have had CAPT when I rejoined as a SM, but choose to start out at the bottom.

[afgeo4]

There will always be people who will be jealous of something. There will always be people who believe they deserve something that someone else deserves. As an organization we have to draw the line somewhere and then explain to everyone why the line was drawn there. I propose that the line be drawn at Retired Officers of the United States Air Force because:

1. We are the AIR FORCE auxiliary.
2. Officers offer us the skills, connections, experience, and flight hours that we so desperately need.
3. Retired members because they are looking not to be deployed again and not to have to deal with the politics of their organization (granted they would have to deal with our politics).

To be "fair" or "politically correct" we'd have to invite everyone for a free membership, but I just don't see that being smart or even possible. Nor am I "fair" or "politically correct". If you think I'm driven by personal reasons, don't. I was never an officer (I left USAFR as a SSgt) and I wasn't in long enough to retire. I am driven purely by professional (CAP) reasons. If you're worried about everyone who may be offended by this, perhaps you ought to evaluate why they're offended. Perhaps you need to tell them to stop their whining. Perhaps they aren't secure in their own accomplishments? Perhaps if they see this as unfair and unjust and say that they'll quit, you ought to reevaluate their membership and let them. We are in the business of assisting the Air Force in Missions For America and I'm sorry, but a retired USAF Lt Col knows what's needed to assist the USAF more than a 20 year veteran of a local fire department. Do firefighters have skills we could use? Sure. So do garbagemen, nurses, teachers, cab drivers, electricians, admin assistants, etc. We can't invite everyone. We need to invite USAF officers who are about to retire. This isn't for their benefit, it's for Civil Air Patrol's benefit. Hopefully they'll enjoy the organization as much as we do. Is it fair? No, it ain't fair. It's just life.

[DNall]

In a perfect world, I'd want lots of experienced enlisted troops in CAP-RAP posts, and lots of retired officers coming in as members & moving on to upper-level management.

I have nothing against the enlisted corps, nor CAP members in general, but neither produces people best prepared to comand a large organization on the strategic level.

I do think it's appropriate to offer one-year free membership to all AF personnel retiring after 20 years of service, in order to bring them on board. We discussed the same thing for active NASA astronauts in order to get them more involved with the program. I think both are very good ideas.

Discounting ongoing membership I'm less receptive to. That gives the impression people don't participate because of the high cost of yearly membership (versus all the other stuff we pay for). That's a pretty low number actually that I don't think effects anyone as far as to renew or not.