"As I Was" versus "As You Were"

[XxJake114xX]

So I have a friend who is in the Air Force JROTC at his high school. Obviously, I am in Civil Air Patrol. We were having controversy over wether, you say "as I was" or "as you were" in the following situation:

You are in a flight during an inpection. Your flight sargeant comes up to you and asks you the National Chain of Command. As you recite the CoC, you stutter... a lot. You decide to stop, take a pause to collect yourself again, to stop stuttering. The controversy is, during that pause, would you say to your flight sargeant "As I Was" and start again? Or would you say "As You Were" and start again?

I pulled out AFMAN 36-2203 and read him Chapter 2 Section 2.5:

CHAPTER 2 SECTION 2.5

2.2.5. Use the command AS YOU WERE to revoke a prepatory command. After the command of execution has been given and the movement has begun, give other appropriate commands to bring the element to the desired position. If a command is improperly given, the individuals execute the command to the best of their ability

I realize that this quote does not say anything about "As I Was" being out of regulations, nor does it state anything about it meaning the same thing.
However, it does give an example, saying that if somebody is leading a flight, and HE/SHE is the one that improperly executes the prepatory command, he says to his/her flight "As You Were". Does this scenario apply to the situation above? Or does it really not matter?

[arajca]

As you were would be used if the flight sergeant started to give a "Column Right" when they meant to give a "Column Left" before giving the execution command "March". It would go like this:
Flight
Column Right
As you were
Column Left
March

In your scenario, it does not apply as there is no command used. The proper (IMHO) way would be to say, after your pause, "Starting Over". It's not a command, but it tells the flight sergeant you are starting over at the beginning. Alternatively, you could say "Continuing" if you are picking up where you left off.

[SarDragon]

"As I was?" Never heard it used. I think it's someone's lame invention, because they though it sounded kool.

[a2capt]

In all the events I've participated, and all the hard-kewl-wanna-be made up stuff, all the fakery, showboating, taking to the extreme .. I've -never- heard that term. Someone is trying -really- hard to be really silly.

[NIN]

As you were. Period.

[coudano]

Yep this is one of the classic drill myths and legends.
Wrongly applied within drill and ceremonies and even more wrongly applied outside of it.


The most common misapplication during drill wiwac went like this:
Flight Commander:  Flight, Parade REST
Flight Commander:  Right FACE
Flight (not moving, in unison, yelling):  SIR, AS YOU WERE, SIR

Obviously you can't do a right face from parade rest.
However, that's REALLY not the right response to a command (even a stupid command) from your flight commander.
The better choice there would be to just stay at parade rest (silence is maintained), or maybe per 36-2203 attempt to execute the command to the best of their ability.



Wrongly applied things like that wind up getting carried over to "any mistake" made even outside of the drill floor.
Like your example.

There is no reg that says you can't say "as I was"
on the other hand, common sense and not being a dork says "don't do it"
however, common sense and non-dorkery are not strong suits for all of us, all the time.


To further confuse the matter, I've seen "as you were" and "as I was" applied comedically (intentionally) with great effect.
But uh, it was a joke.

[HGjunkie]

USAFA logic: "Correction please, sir/ma'am."

[NIN]

"Get like you was before you got like you is."

Yeaaaahhh

[SarDragon]

"Get like you was before you got like you is."

Yeaaaahhh

Oh, yeah!

[TeamBronx]

Reminds me of the old saw:  "As I was, or is.  If I am, but I'm not.  Because I can't be, Sir."

[JC004]

...
I realize that this quote does not say anything about "As I Was" being out of regulations, nor does it state anything about it meaning the same thing.
...

It's not a question of "being out of regulation," in other words, "it's not prohibited, so it's OK."  It's NOT THE WAY IT'S DONE.  The manual says how it's done.  It's that simple.  Regulations can't possibly cover everything that could possibly be wrong.  It simply states the procedure, and that's all there is to it.  Saying "as I was" is no different than making up the command "I like blueberries." 

...
The most common misapplication during drill wiwac went like this:
Flight Commander:  Flight, Parade REST
Flight Commander:  Right FACE
Flight (not moving, in unison, yelling):  SIR, AS YOU WERE, SIR

Obviously you can't do a right face from parade rest.
However, that's REALLY not the right response to a command (even a stupid command) from your flight commander.
The better choice there would be to just stay at parade rest (silence is maintained), or maybe per 36-2203 attempt to execute the command to the best of their ability.
...

I remember that.  I wouldn't prohibit something similar as a drill practice technique, if it works, but it shouldn't be regularly used, and if someone did something like that as a teaching tool, I'd make sure it was clearly stated that it was only for the lesson.

[lordmonar]

NO NO NO NO

The "as you were sir" thing needs to be killed and buried as deep as it possible can be buried!

It has no value what so ever in drill and ceremonies, leadership training, or anything.

If I give the command wrong....do it.   It is that simple.

Don't teach your cadet to ignore it, don't teach them to shout anything.  Just do it.

As for the OP. 

There is noting in the drill manual about how you are supposed to answer questions during open ranks or what ever.   So you are free to make up what ever you want to make up.

In Air Force Basic Training (at least back in 1986) we had to preface everything with "Sir (ma'am) Airman Harris reports (or reports as order)....."  If you screwed up and had to start over....we did not have any special phrase to tell our TI we were starting over....he was pretty smart and could figure it out himself.

[XxJake114xX]

NO NO NO NO

The "as you were sir" thing needs to be killed and buried as deep as it possible can be buried!

It has no value what so ever in drill and ceremonies, leadership training, or anything.

If I give the command wrong....do it.   It is that simple...

Lordmonar, the Air Force Manual states that  if a cadet drilling a flight, calles the wrong PREPATORY command, and catches himself, he says "as you were" to his flight.

It is after you call the command of execution (FACE, or MARCH), and it is wrong, the cadets task is to preform it to the best of their ability.

Example:
If you are drilling a flight, and you say "right flank..." and then you pause because you do not want to do a right flank. If you do NOT say "as you were" in that pause, before you correct yourself saying "left flank... MARCH!", cadets are either going to:
A. Do a right flank immedeatly followed by a left flank
B. Do a left(right) flank first, or
C. Continue marching and not do any facing movements.

[PHall]

NO NO NO NO

The "as you were sir" thing needs to be killed and buried as deep as it possible can be buried!

It has no value what so ever in drill and ceremonies, leadership training, or anything.

If I give the command wrong....do it.   It is that simple...

Lordmonar, the Air Force Manual states that  if a cadet drilling a flight, calles the wrong PREPATORY command, and catches himself, he says "as you were" to his flight.

It is after you call the command of execution (FACE, or MARCH), and it is wrong, the cadets task is to preform it to the best of their ability.

Example:
If you are drilling a flight, and you say "right flank..." and then you pause because you do not want to do a right flank. If you do NOT say "as you were" in that pause, before you correct yourself saying "left flank... MARCH!", cadets are either going to:
A. Do a right flank immedeatly followed by a left flank
B. Do a left(right) flank first, or
C. Continue marching and not do any facing movements.

He talking about the flight correcting the flight commander, hense the "as you were, sir".

[DoubleSecret]

The "as you were sir" thing needs to be killed and buried as deep as it possible can be buried!

Hung, drawn, quartered, whipped, and boiled.  And then do it again, and take all the bits and jump on them.
THEN bury them as deeply as possible.  The terms, of course, not the cadets.

As fellow retired USAF, it is painful for me to hear cadets giving their version of drill commands.  Unnecessarily drawn out words and the "sir sandwich" come to mind.  So does splitting the terms "fall in" and "at ease" into preparatory commands and commands of execution.  I fix the split terms when I hear them, but the rest is a stylistic thing that will go on as long as seniors in the cadets' chain of command (not me) tolerate it.  I think it comes from us learning these things from USAF NCOs in a 6+ week immersion course, while they learn them from fellow teenagers at a once a week meeting who supplement their knowledge with bad movies.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

One of the units I served was fortunate enough to have a retired Army Drill Sergeant SFC come into CAP as a MSgt.

Of course, there were some slight differences between Army and Air Force D&C (never, EVER call an Army Drill Sergeant "sir!") but he was, of course, sharp enough to familiarise himself with the differences.

We had some of the best cadet D&C I have ever seen, thanks to him.

It's too bad there aren't more like him in CAP, or ANG/AFRES former MTI's willing to volunteer to help CAP units out.  Another unit I served had an AFRES TSgt as a member (though he was a CAP officer) and he helped with that.  People like him, I and other prior-service types certainly do what we can to help but none of us were MTI's.

http://www.104fw.ang.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123126983

Not that I'm inferring all cadets will or should go to BMT, but the expertise that these "hats" have can certainly help with D&C, C&C's, etc.

Of course, this is a lot more intense than what CAP cadets receive, but I think the concept is a good one.

Note that the NCO in this story is also a CAP LNCOIC...or was, given that this story is six years old and we don't even have State Director/LO positions anymore, let alone LNCO's.

There are YouTube videos that have Student Flights simulating "snake pits" (my heart sinks into my toes just remembering that) but that would be way too close to hazing for CAP.

[pierson777]

Not only do cadets learn the wrong stuff from other teens once per week at the meeting, I've seen mistakes like this come out of encampment.  I understand when a cadet says, "but this is how we do it at my unit."  But it really ruffles my feathers when a cadet says, "but this is how they taught us at encampment".  The Myths and Legends that was written about 12 years ago should be required curriculum at encampment.  You have all these cadets present.  You should ensure that they're taught correctly so that they will take that training back to their units.

Another one that gets me going is when a cadet snaps to attention against the wall and says, "by your leave, sir".  What the heck is that?  I explained to a C/Maj that she used incorrect customs & courtesies when she did this to me. She argued that she was correct, yet never came up with any supporting information from any publication to support her opinion.  Frankly, I don't like my conversations interrupted so that I can grant leave (aka permission to walk away or to walk by).  So I told her that I was too busy to be bothered with granting her request for leave, and that I would ignore her every time she did this to me.  And if she thought that she was correct, then she would have to remain at attention against the wall until I left the area.  I guess that was enough, because it never happened again.  In fact, this happened six years ago, and it was the last time I saw it happen in my wing.

The goofy one that I recall from my CAP cadet days is that we were taught that while in formation and when someone like the flight sergeant walked through the flight, we had to throw up our arm to stop them from walking through and yell, "BREAKING RANKS, SERGEANT"!  The cadet leaders would make a game of getting a running start and try to bust through the flight.  It was very immature and had no basis in any regulation.

[coudano]

She argued that she was correct, yet never came up with any supporting information from any publication to support her opinion.

Again, regardless of the publication or lack thereof,
apply common sense and non-dorkery rule.

Also consider listing ANY environment in the military or outside it, where that sort of nonsense would be considered reasonable behavior.  Can't.

The goofy one that I recall from my CAP cadet days is that we were taught that while in formation and when someone like the flight sergeant walked through the flight, we had to throw up our arm to stop them from walyming through and yell, "BREAKING RANKS, SERGEANT"!  The cadet leaders would make a game of getting a running start and try to bust through the flight.  It was very immature and had no basis in any regulation.

Haha, red rover, red rover,
i haven't seen this one in so long I forgot about it.
but yeah, I remember this too.

Elbow checked the crap out of more than a few sergeants and officers haha.

(don't do it)

[Private Investigator]

It was very immature and had no basis in any regulation.

Just another day as a teenager.

OTOH; I like:

Walking tall, and looking good,
These Cadets, belong in Hollywood!