Proper placement of badges on BDUs and Field Uniforms

[Stonewall]

I have found that many people don't quite understand or pay attention to the guidelines (read: REQUIREMENTS) for placement of specialty badges/insignia on BDUs.

Here is how CAPM 39-1 says to do it:

CAP 39-1, Chapter 6, Section B

BADGES AND DEVICES

6-6 Description and Proper Placement on the BDU, Utility Uniform, and Field Uniform and Flight Suits.  All white on blue insignia will have 1/8 inch of blue showing at the widest and tallest point of the insignia, except the Civil Air Patrol tape and nametape.  These two will be the width of the BDU or field uniform pocket.  When placing multiple insignia in the same area, measure from the insignia to insignia not blue to blue.....

And although it doesn't say so, I think it should be in black and white that we machine sew our badges and patches to uniforms.  Prior to velcroing everything on, the Army had the policy of requiring badges and patches being machine sewn which helped me out when I'd make corrections on my troops.  In CAP if it ain't written in black and white we can't enforce it.  But it is good practice to have things machine sewn.

[Pylon]

When placing multiple insignia in the same area, measure from the insignia to insignia not blue to blue...

You're right that it's an area that many people "skim over."   The above quoted section is probably one of the most frequently mistaken/ignored items.

[Stonewall]

I hope NIN doesn't mind that I borrowed this image....

You'll notice that in the reg, the first badge closest to the CAP tape is measured from the badge to the blue border of the CAP tape, but the second badge is measured from badge to badge.  Thus making the measurements look a bit off, to the trained eye of course.  Like me, NIN moves the first badge so both measurements look equal.  Right?  Not exactly, but perhaps this is something NHQ or the writers of 39-1 didn't pay close enough attention to.



Here is mine (as seen on another thread).  Notice how the badges look identical in spacing between badge to badge and badge to nametape.

[DNall]

Those jump wings look like their banking right a bit by the way.

[MIKE]

Still sewn better than most members... Give it a pass.

[Stonewall]

Those jump wings look like their banking right a bit by the way.

Yeah, I noticed too, but not till I put them online.  Will go back to the sewing machine before my meeting tomorrow night.  [darn] OCD kicking in. 

[DNall]

 
It's not that I wouldn't give it a pass, it is sewn very well, the spacing looks perfect, and it's a badge I certainly hadn't earned yet. However, he seems even more a perfectionist on this kind of thing than I try to be, and that would annoy me on my stuff if I knew it was like that. I'm not saying it wouldn't take me a couple months to get around to fixing, but it'd be in the back of my mind.

Also, is there a good place I can get Army badges in white on blue. Particularly I got a guy that needs enlisted aircrew. Williams & Williams (nametags4u.com) looks good & love the company, but $5x3min=$15 is stiff for one set of sew on wings.

[Stonewall]

Contact Spur Nametapes at http://www.1800nametape.com/.  They're the ones that made the Army Aircrew wings you see above.  From what I understand they'll make any military badge white on ultramarine for about $2.00.

[TankerT]

Those jump wings look like their banking right a bit by the way.

He's just pulling a slip.  That's all.

[Stonewall]

Just got an email back from Spur and then made my order.  Looks like they mostly have Army badges and maybe some Air Force aeronautical ratings, but they didn't have the AF Security Forces badge.

Hello,

We can make basic parachutist and Air Assault badges.  We don't have the design for the AF Security Badges.  You will have to order through an email or call your in.  They are $2.00 each.

Thanks
Teresa Roberts
http://www.1800nametape.com
Spur Name Tapes
1-800-626-3827
text

[DNall]

I thought you were doing lifesupport? Well anyway, the SF pocket badge isn't authorized, duty badge & have to be doing that duty as a CAP officer to wear it, that's what HQ says anyway. Same applies to instructor, recruiter, etc.

Was there a link on the actual spur website showing some of this stuff? I mean I certainly believe they do it, but It'd make me feel a little better to see a couple quality of work samples, not that it's a big deal. Thanks again for the heads up on them.

[Stonewall]

Not the "police shield", the SF skill badge.  I switched from Life Support to SF at the end of last year.  I'm finding myself a lot happier working outside with guns and stuff ;-)

http://www.1800nametape.com is the address to the site, but their white on ultramarine isn't advertised.  You asked specifically about Army Aircrew wings, which are posted higher up on this thread.  Darin Ninness had them made from Spur and as you can tell in the picture, they look to standard when compared to the Sr. GTM badge.

You have to either call them or email to tell them what you want.

This is exactly what I emailed them this morning:

I'd like 3 sets of basic parachutist wings and 3 sets of the air assault badge.  Both sets with white on ultramarine (blue) for the Civil Air Patrol uniform.

That followed my contact information and credit card, they replied and said "thank you, they'll be there in a week or so".

[Stonewall]

Here they are again, Army aircrew wings.  I think they look great.



www.nametags4u.com also make some badges, but both their version of the parachutist badge and air assault are not close to the standard badge.   However, I have seen their Air Force badges, Ops Support and SF skill badge (not the police shield) and they looked great.  But you have to order at least 3 at $5 a piece.  Spur doesn't have a minimum and they only cost $2 a piece.

[DNall]

Not the "police shield", the SF skill badge.  I switched from Life Support to SF at the end of last year.  I'm finding myself a lot happier working outside with guns and stuff ;-)

Oh ok, well good, I can understand the feeling.

their white on ultramarine isn't advertised.  You asked specifically about Army Aircrew wings, which are posted higher up on this thread.

Right, saw those to take care of the one guy. I'll also need some stuff for three other folks, one Army & two AF. I was hoping I was just missing a section in there somewhere that showed a lot of stuff in the format so I could more easily direct those people there rather than holding their hand thru the effort.

I fired off an email for a price quote. I'm sure I'll follow thru on it later in the week. I really appreciate it, I think my guys will be real happy with the result.

www.nametags4u.com also make some badges, but both their version of the parachutist badge and air assault are not close to the standard badge.   However, I have seen their Air Force badges, Ops Support and SF skill badge (not the police shield) and they looked great.  But you have to order at least 3 at $5 a piece.  Spur doesn't have a minimum and they only cost $2 a piece.

I had heard about some of those issues from nametags4u, btwn that & price I was pretty hesitant with them. I'm gonna get something in with spur though & see how I like them. Again, appreciate it much.

[ddelaney103]

Ahs anyone ordered from Uniform Nametape Company (http://www.uniformnametape.com/index.asp)?  They say they can do white on um blue AF badges for $2 each, but I figured I'd check the Peanut Gallery before I place a test order.

[Stonewall]

Here's a sample of what www.nametags4u.com can do.  This is the SF badge I was refering to.  Again, their AF badges seem to be good to go, but their army badges are a waste of money.  I speak from experience.

Here is their "CAP Info Page": http://www.nametags4u.com/civilairpatrol.html

[DNall]

Here's a sample of what www.nametags4u.com can do.  This is the SF badge I was refering to.  Again, their AF badges seem to be good to go, but their army badges are a waste of money.  I speak from experience.

Seen those, & heard that as well, that's why I hadn't gone with them for any of this work. Hopefully Spur can take care of all I need.

Ahs anyone ordered from Uniform Nametape Company (http://www.uniformnametape.com/index.asp)?  They say they can do white on um blue AF badges for $2 each, but I figured I'd check the Peanut Gallery before I place a test order.

Sounds like they are talking about standard blue badge on OD background. That's probably not what you want & make sure first. If they can do white on ultramarine then give it a shot. I'm always worried about the shade people want to call ultramarine - including vanguard when sending multiple badges in the same order together.

[Stonewall]

I emailed Vanguard a few months ago, maybe October or November and got nothing but a run around from them.  I suggested they make military badges for CAP but they said it was against regs for CAP members to wear military devices.  Naturally I had to show her the regs to which she replied "no".  Basically she wasn't willing to help in the least.

Vanguard has sucked in every dealing I've had with them.

[ddelaney103]

Here's a sample of what www.nametags4u.com can do.  This is the SF badge I was refering to.  Again, their AF badges seem to be good to go, but their army badges are a waste of money.  I speak from experience.

Seen those, & heard that as well, that's why I hadn't gone with them for any of this work. Hopefully Spur can take care of all I need.

Ahs anyone ordered from Uniform Nametape Company (http://www.uniformnametape.com/index.asp)?  They say they can do white on um blue AF badges for $2 each, but I figured I'd check the Peanut Gallery before I place a test order.

Sounds like they are talking about standard blue badge on OD background. That's probably not what you want & make sure first. If they can do white on ultramarine then give it a shot. I'm always worried about the shade people want to call ultramarine - including vanguard when sending multiple badges in the same order together.

You have to call in a special order to get them - they don't advertise them.

[ddelaney103]

I emailed Vanguard a few months ago, maybe October or November and got nothing but a run around from them.  I suggested they make military badges for CAP but they said it was against regs for CAP members to wear military devices.  Naturally I had to show her the regs to which she replied "no".  Basically she wasn't willing to help in the least.

Vanguard has sucked in every dealing I've had with them.

Word.

I called in an order a couple of weeks ago and tried to get a CAP A-2 nametag with just my name.  They told me I couldn't wear the jacket w/o the uniform because it was against regs.  I resisted the urge to tell them to "Kiss my Grits!"

Do they get paid extra to be CAP's Junior Uniform Police?

[Psicorp]

I emailed Vanguard a few months ago, maybe October or November and got nothing but a run around from them.  I suggested they make military badges for CAP but they said it was against regs for CAP members to wear military devices.  Naturally I had to show her the regs to which she replied "no".  Basically she wasn't willing to help in the least.

Vanguard has sucked in every dealing I've had with them.

Word.

I called in an order a couple of weeks ago and tried to get a CAP A-2 nametag with just my name.  They told me I couldn't wear the jacket w/o the uniform because it was against regs.  I resisted the urge to tell them to "Kiss my Grits!"

Do they get paid extra to be CAP's Junior Uniform Police?

I think they pay (royalties) for the privilege

[Slim]

I emailed Vanguard a few months ago, maybe October or November and got nothing but a run around from them.  I suggested they make military badges for CAP but they said it was against regs for CAP members to wear military devices.  Naturally I had to show her the regs to which she replied "no".  Basically she wasn't willing to help in the least.

Vanguard has sucked in every dealing I've had with them.

Word.

I called in an order a couple of weeks ago and tried to get a CAP A-2 nametag with just my name.  They told me I couldn't wear the jacket w/o the uniform because it was against regs.  I resisted the urge to tell them to "Kiss my Grits!"

Do they get paid extra to be CAP's Junior Uniform Police?

Not to continue the Vanguard bashing...

They were at our conference a few weeks back, and had a decent amount of product to sell, just didn't seem to be the right products.  The two guys who came along were also very helpful, and glad to order anything needed-with shipping fees waived. Among other things I was looking for were the new navy blue embroidered grade for my blue bag, didn't bring any.  Needed a new flight cap, didn't bring any.  Saw that they had miniature GT badges and thought I might get a mini EMT badge, didn't bring any.  But I did manage to drop about $80 completely replacing all of my ribbons and devices, new aviator and golf shirts, a tie, new MajCom patches, and a flight cap device for one of my new seniors.

It also looks like they've improved the quality of their leather nametags.  Unfortunately, they are unable to put an aero rating and a specialty insignia on them just yet.  I wanted to order a couple with observer wings and an EMT badge.  They told me they could do one or the other, but not both.  

[PHall]

Kirt, for your SF Qual Badge in white on blue try  www.thebattlezone.com
I've had pretty good luck with them so far and their workmanship is first rate.
They also have badges from the other branches too.

[Stonewall]

Actually, Nick McLarty already had some made and is sending me one so I'm good to go.

I remember being a cadet and always wanting some sort of badge for my CAP uniform.  15 Year Old C/SSgt Bowden: "man, they should create some sort of ground team badge or something...".

I've got 2 sets of BDUs for CAP.  I wear one military badge and one CAP badge on each uniform and I still have some left over.  I think we're in a badge-friendly society now.  Be careful what you wish for...

Military
Airborne
Air Assault
AF Security Forces
AF Operation Support
OSD Badge (blues only)

CAP
Master GTM
Observer
EMT
Master CP (blues only)

Cuz I'm a Pee Exx, R A N G E R...

In the Army we could wear it like this... (NO, I DON'T WEAR THIS)

[Nick]

Military
Airborne
Air Assault
AF Security Forces
AF Operation Support
OSD Badge (blues only)

CAP
Master GTM
Observer
EMT
Master CP (blues only)

Yeah, you're kinda screwed there, aren'tcha?

In the Army we could wear it like this... (NO, I DON'T WEAR THIS)

I thought they revised that to two above the namestrip and two off-centered on the pocket flap?

[Stonewall]

Who knows, that was back in the day.  I saw guys with CIB, EFMB, and Master Parachutist above the name tag; Pathfinder and SCUBA on the pocket flap; and Drill Sergeant on the pocket.

Probably had some foreign jump wings above the right pocket too.

Don't forget there are like 15 tabs now:  Airborne, Ranger, Mountain, SF, Sapper, and President's 100 (Airborne and Mountain are unit tabs, not a qualification).

[Nick]

Don't forget there are like 15 tabs now:  Airborne, Ranger, Mountain, SF, Sapper, and President's 100 (Airborne and Mountain are unit tabs, not a qualification).

Yeah, I saw a sergeant with an Airborne tab and Special Forces combat unit patch today.  He was all hooah with a matching ACU backpack and all.  I wanted to go up and poke him the arm to see what he'd do.

[SAR-EMT1]

Not to continue the Vanguard bashing...


It also looks like they've improved the quality of their leather nametags.  Unfortunately, they are unable to put an aero rating and a specialty insignia on them just yet.  I wanted to order a couple with observer wings and an EMT badge.  They told me they could do one or the other, but not both.  

LOL.. I can see it now... CAP FLIGHT MEDIC

[Slim]

Not to continue the Vanguard bashing...


It also looks like they've improved the quality of their leather nametags.  Unfortunately, they are unable to put an aero rating and a specialty insignia on them just yet.  I wanted to order a couple with observer wings and an EMT badge.  They told me they could do one or the other, but not both.  

LOL.. I can see it now... CAP FLIGHT MEDIC

Eh, could have just as easily been a GT badge, I earned that one the hard way back when they first came out.

[Fifinella]

Thanks all.  Must confess I have been wearing subdued AF badges on my BDUs.   Didn't know how to get white & blue ones.  Placed orders today so I can be squared away and appease the Uniform Gods.  (Don't want to be forced to wear the TTU for pennance.)

[RogueLeader]

Thanks all.  Must confess I have been wearing subdued AF badges on my BDUs.   Didn't know how to get white & blue ones.  Placed orders today so I can be squared away and appease the Uniform Gods.  (Don't want to be forced to wear the TTU for pennance.)

Doesn't have to be w on b,  they are allowed to be subdued.

[Stonewall]

Thanks all.  Must confess I have been wearing subdued AF badges on my BDUs.   Didn't know how to get white & blue ones.  Placed orders today so I can be squared away and appease the Uniform Gods.  (Don't want to be forced to wear the TTU for pennance.)

Doesn't have to be w on b,  they are allowed to be subdued.

Don't discourage him, white on blue looks better for CAP.

Yes, 39-1 says you can wear blue on OD, but if spend the same amount of cash you can keep your uniform looking, well, uni-form.

[RogueLeader]

Thanks all.  Must confess I have been wearing subdued AF badges on my BDUs.   Didn't know how to get white & blue ones.  Placed orders today so I can be squared away and appease the Uniform Gods.  (Don't want to be forced to wear the TTU for pennance.)

Doesn't have to be w on b,  they are allowed to be subdued.

Don't discourage him, white on blue looks better for CAP.

Yes, 39-1 says you can wear blue on OD, but if spend the same amount of cash you can keep your uniform looking, well, uni-form.

I'm not saying either way, its up to him to decide.  if he wants whe w/b patches on his CAP Bdu's, fine.  I just didn't him to think that they were mandatory, and to his discretion.

[Fifinella]

Thanks all.  Must confess I have been wearing subdued AF badges on my BDUs.   Didn't know how to get white & blue ones.  Placed orders today so I can be squared away and appease the Uniform Gods.  (Don't want to be forced to wear the TTU for pennance.)

Doesn't have to be w on b,  they are allowed to be subdued.

Don't discourage him, white on blue looks better for CAP.

Yes, 39-1 says you can wear blue on OD, but if spend the same amount of cash you can keep your uniform looking, well, uni-form.

I'm not saying either way, its up to him to decide.  if he wants whe w/b patches on his CAP Bdu's, fine.  I just didn't him to think that they were mandatory, and to his discretion.

Copy.  Thanks.  I see that now, CAPM 39-1, p 114, item 19 "regular or subdued".  Well, the money has been spent now, so...I guess I'll put on the white & blue along with my new U.S. Civil Air Patrol tapes when they arrive.

[RogueLeader]

Thanks all.  Must confess I have been wearing subdued AF badges on my BDUs.   Didn't know how to get white & blue ones.  Placed orders today so I can be squared away and appease the Uniform Gods.  (Don't want to be forced to wear the TTU for pennance.)

Doesn't have to be w on b,  they are allowed to be subdued.

Don't discourage him, white on blue looks better for CAP.

Yes, 39-1 says you can wear blue on OD, but if spend the same amount of cash you can keep your uniform looking, well, uni-form.

I'm not saying either way, its up to him to decide.  if he wants whe w/b patches on his CAP Bdu's, fine.  I just didn't him to think that they were mandatory, and to his discretion.

Copy.  Thanks.  I see that now, CAPM 39-1, p 114, item 19 "regular or subdued".  Well, the money has been spent now, so...I guess I'll put on the white & blue along with my new U.S. Civil Air Patrol tapes when they arrive.

Roger

[DNall]

Don't discourage him, white on blue looks better for CAP.

Yes, 39-1 says you can wear blue on OD, but if spend the same amount of cash you can keep your uniform looking, well, uni-form.

I don't mind members wearing subdued mil badges, especially when they just came over. Where I think you HAVE to go to white/blue is when you're wearing a mil badge with a CAP badge. You REALLY need to make them both match & there's only one direction you can go with that. If you're going to wear just the one or two mil badges & no CAP stuff, then it's a personal pref & doesn't bother me either way.

[RogueLeader]

Where does it say that they all have to match?  If so, there's a CMSgt that might want to know.

[DNall]

It doesn't say they have to match, but you know it looks better, and I'd strongly be encouraging people around me to do it. Chief can make up his own mind, but I think he'd probably understand the logic on this & adjust.

[RogueLeader]

It doesn't say they have to match, but you know it looks better, and I'd strongly be encouraging people around me to do it. Chief can make up his own mind, but I think he'd probably understand the logic on this & adjust.

You're right, i do think they look better, but I don't like the idea that I HAVE to have all my patches be the same- if I came from the RealMilitary™ that is, when the regs say I don't.  If NHQ thought that they should all be the same, they would've written themthat way, but lets not go off on that tangent please.

[Hawk200]

I don't mind members wearing subdued mil badges, especially when they just came over. Where I think you HAVE to go to white/blue is when you're wearing a mil badge with a CAP badge. You REALLY need to make them both match & there's only one direction you can go with that. If you're going to wear just the one or two mil badges & no CAP stuff, then it's a personal pref & doesn't bother me either way.

If you mix the two, it's not so bad with a subdued on top. But it you have an arrangement that involves a CAP badge on top, it looks screwy. Hopefully, I'll have observer wings soon enough, but I probably won't wear anything else on that uniform. One set (or two) of BDU's with my military badges, the other one (or two) with CAP badges.

BTW, anyone know the mandatory wear date for the "U.S. CIVIL AIR PATROL" tape? Wondering if I can let one uniform slide, or if I should pull out the sewing kit.

[MIKE]

1 March 2010 according to the minutes.

[DNall]

It doesn't say they have to match, but you know it looks better, and I'd strongly be encouraging people around me to do it. Chief can make up his own mind, but I think he'd probably understand the logic on this & adjust.

You're right, i do think they look better, but I don't like the idea that I HAVE to have all my patches be the same- if I came from the RealMilitary™ that is, when the regs say I don't.  If NHQ thought that they should all be the same, they would've written themthat way, but lets not go off on that tangent please.

Cheif's got that uniform guide out that spends something like 20 pages explaining things the reg doesn't say you HAVE to do but you really do.

The reg gives the minimum information for an experienced person to be able to extrapolate the right thing to do with corrective peer guidance. That's how the mil regs are too. With CAP members, that doesn't work so well, so the regs are somewhat inadequate. It's pretty straight forward that you shouldn't mix badges. Just like you shouldn't mix mini & large badges on blues.

[Hawk200]

It's pretty straight forward that you shouldn't mix badges. Just like you shouldn't mix mini & large badges on blues.

Mixing sizes on blues is actually addressed in the manual. Mixing subdued and non isn't, although it does say specifically that subdued military badges are authorized, and that you are permitted to wear up to two badges on the BDU (Although the specific issue of mixing isn't addressed. Perhaps National does not even consider it an issue.) If I had a subdued and a non-subdued badge that the rules would allow me to wear the subdued on top, I would do it. I wouldn't put a color top with the subdued on bottom for the simple fact that it looks odd to me. I wouldn't tell someone that they couldn't. I'd tell them it does look strange though.

I have a little problem with the "the reg doesn't say you have to, but....." . If someone honestly doesn't know, and you tell them otherwise, how credible do you look if you can't back it up with something in black and white?

Also, a lot of people throw their personnel opinion on uniform wear into things, and they don't know better. The worst instance I dealt with was someone telling someone else that he couldn't wear his Combat Infantry Badge "because it's Army". I got a hold of a 39-1, and showed the guy where he was wrong. His response was "Well, the manual says you can do it, but you really shouldn't." It's a pretty similar argument.

Where do we draw the line between "should" and "shouldn't"? If it's not in the manual, and doesn't fit under the clause of "professional, well groomed appearance which will reflect credit upon CAP", how do you enforce it? If you can't back it up, then a reasonable person may consider your attempt as harassment.

[Pylon]

I have a little problem with the "the reg doesn't say you have to, but....." . If someone honestly doesn't know, and you tell them otherwise, how credible do you look if you can't back it up with something in black and white?

I don't think there's any lack of credibility there. 

"The reg doesn't say you have to trim those protruding nose hairs down, but...."

"The reg doesn't say you have to put some effort towards using some mouthwash and a mint, but your breath... *cough*"

"The reg doesn't say you have to clean out all that dirt and crud from under your fingernails, but..."

"The reg doesn't say you can't use that flourescent green thread to sew on your GT badge, but..."

Get my point?  The regulation leaves a lot of leeway.  But if you're aiming for a professional image that looks spot on to both CAP members and members of the public, there's an overall package to consider.  Yep, you need to wear a sharp uniform.  But you also need to take care of other things the regulation doesn't cover.  You'd still be "within the regulation" but I'd recommend you go a bit further in many circumstances to aim for that professional image.

YMMV.

[Hawk200]

"The reg doesn't say you have to trim those protruding nose hairs down, but...."

I'd start with this" "All commanders will ensure that all members, individually and collectively, present a professional, well-groomed appearance, which will reflect credit upon CAP as the auxiliary of the United States Air Force."

"The reg doesn't say you have to put some effort towards using some mouthwash and a mint, but your breath... *cough*"

Personally, I'd reference the above. You could address it in other manners, such as the personal presence issue, as personal cleanliness, or even as an oral health issue. But I'll concede that it is not specifically addressed.

"The reg doesn't say you have to clean out all that dirt and crud from under your fingernails, but..."

I would definitely address this under "well groomed". "Well groomed" may not be defined in the manual, but the only people I know that don't understand what it means are usually children that have not yet learned what it means yet, or people that are not mentally competent.

"The reg doesn't say you can't use that flourescent green thread to sew on your GT badge, but..."

Simple professional appearance. It may not say that it should be like colored thread, but an overall general concensus would probably show that it is indeed the "professional" thing to do.

....The regulation leaves a lot of leeway. 

Not as much as people might think. Regulations are meant to be complied with. Unless specifically permitted, something is not allowed. Many people use the "it's not forbidden" reasoning to justify violating the spirit of the reg. That is inappropriate and unprofessional. And it tends to branch into other areas as well. Besides, can you imagine how big a reg would have to be to address all the things that weren't allowed? I wouldn't want to carry a copy of any one of them that does.

But if you're aiming for a professional image that looks spot on to both CAP members and members of the public, there's an overall package to consider.  Yep, you need to wear a sharp uniform. 

Agreed. Having spent time on active duty, there are things that are taught to present the sharpest appearance possible. The uniform must be treated with due consideration. I find it amazing that people will have suits dry cleaned and pressed, or their dress shirt starched, or will actually shine the shoes they wear to church, but don't think that a uniform should be treated with the same consideration. If it helps them, they should think of doing the same thing to a different set of clothes. It would be far easier.

But you also need to take care of other things the regulation doesn't cover.  You'd still be "within the regulation" but I'd recommend you go a bit further in many circumstances to aim for that professional image.

The reg must be read in its entirety. There are a lot of things people tend to gloss over, or consider unimportant. The entire reg must be read, and applied, not the parts that happen to register in our heads. There are things that some people consider "a little bit further" but in reality are actually part of the standard.

[Stonewall]

Just got an email back from Spur and then made my order.  Looks like they mostly have Army badges and maybe some Air Force aeronautical ratings, but they didn't have the AF Security Forces badge.

Hello,

We can make basic parachutist and Air Assault badges.  You will have to order through an email or call your in.  They are $2.00 each.

Thanks
Teresa Roberts
http://www.1800nametape.com
Spur Name Tapes
1-800-626-3827
text

I know this thread is older than some cadets, but when looking through it, I didn't post a picture of the products I got back from Spur Name Tapes.  They may seem a bit off in the picture, but I will admit they are identical to the badges I wore on my Army BDUs.



For all of you former military types who wish to wear matching military/CAP badges, I highly recommend calling these folks.

[Hawk200]

For all of you former military types who wish to wear matching military/CAP badges, I highly recommend calling these folks.

I know that there are people that don't like it, but I wear the subdued on green badges. As cluttered as the uniform looks, I think it keeps it a little cleaner. And even though I think that people should wear what they've earned, I've actually been doing the minimalist thing. It's a lot less sewing.

[Stonewall]

Yes, some folks like to keep their subdued wings on for some reason, but I disagree with it helps it look cleaner.  Except for patches, which most of us don't have to wear, everything on the BDUs is white on blue (unless you're a 2d Lt or Major).  I think it looks more professional to have everything the same (as in uni-form) than from different organizations:  Military= Subdued,  CAP= White on Blue.  YMMV.

[Hawk200]

Yes, some folks like to keep their subdued wings on for some reason, but I disagree with it helps it look cleaner.  Except for patches, which most of us don't have to wear, everything on the BDUs is white on blue (unless you're a 2d Lt or Major).  I think it looks more professional to have everything the same (as in uni-form) than from different organizations:  Military= Subdued,  CAP= White on Blue.  YMMV.

To each their own I guess. I just don't have sufficient justification to go getting custom insignia made up when there is something already authorized that works, and more readily available.

I still think the white on blue is rather garish. If we went to something a little darker, I might actually consider getting custom stuff done. But for now, I use the cheap stuff. Don't worry though, I spend a lot for time making sure they're sewn properly.

[JC004]

Yes, some folks like to keep their subdued wings on for some reason, but I disagree with it helps it look cleaner.  Except for patches, which most of us don't have to wear, everything on the BDUs is white on blue (unless you're a 2d Lt or Major).  I think it looks more professional to have everything the same (as in uni-form) than from different organizations:  Military= Subdued,  CAP= White on Blue.  YMMV.

waaaaaait a minute.  Since when were CAP "uniforms" have a "same" theme going on?

[Falshrmjgr]

Just got an email back from Spur and then made my order.  Looks like they mostly have Army badges and maybe some Air Force aeronautical ratings, but they didn't have the AF Security Forces badge.

Hello,

We can make basic parachutist and Air Assault badges.  You will have to order through an email or call your in.  They are $2.00 each.

Thanks
Teresa Roberts
http://www.1800nametape.com
Spur Name Tapes
1-800-626-3827
text

I know this thread is older than some cadets, but when looking through it, I didn't post a picture of the products I got back from Spur Name Tapes.  They may seem a bit off in the picture, but I will admit they are identical to the badges I wore on my Army BDUs.



For all of you former military types who wish to wear matching military/CAP badges, I highly recommend calling these folks.

Excellent,  How much was shipping?

[JayT]

Are the badges suppose to be blue to blue, or white to white?

[jayleswo]

Are the badges suppose to be blue to blue, or white to white?

CAPM 39-1 (23 MAR 2005) para 6-7 (p. 105) says:

"When placing multiple insignia in the same area, measure from the insignia to
insignia not blue to blue. For more instructions see Chapters 2 and 4."

So, that would be "white to white"

[brasda91]

everything on the BDUs is white on blue (unless you're a 2d Lt or Major).

Is this your personal set-up on your uniforms or are you trying to say this is the requirement?

[Stonewall]

That's just how I'd like it to be.  When I was in NATCAP wing, before they got rid of wing patches and added the American flag, our uniforms were actually "uni-form".  White on blue everything.

Unfortunately, I'm in FLWG now where they require the wing patch, which looks terrible.  Plus the flag, I lost my love of uniformity.

Note:  Remember, when sewing (machine sewing that is) badges, there should be a 1/8" blue border around the badge; then, measure 1/2" between the white badges, not the blue border.

To answer the shipping cost question, I don't remember, but wasn't anything to be concerned about.  I don't remember paying too much for the entire order.

[Eclipse]

Note:  Remember, when sewing (machine sewing that is) badges, there should be a 1/8" blue border around the badge; then, measure 1/2" between the white badges, not the blue border.

I thought it was 1/2" blue-to-blue for the first badge above the nametape, and then white-to-white for the second one.

[jb512]

Note:  Remember, when sewing (machine sewing that is) badges, there should be a 1/8" blue border around the badge; then, measure 1/2" between the white badges, not the blue border.

I thought it was 1/2" blue-to-blue for the first badge above the nametape, and then white-to-white for the second one.

If I'm reading it right, the two badges will have a 1/4" space between them because of the 1/8" border with the 1/2" white to white measurement.  The nametape to bottom badge will have a gap because you're measuring from nametape to white.  Correct?

[Stonewall]

If I'm reading it right, the two badges will have a 1/4" space between them because of the 1/8" border with the 1/2" white to white measurement.  The nametape to bottom badge will have a gap because you're measuring from nametape to white.  Correct?

Yes, it'll be about 1/4" between blue borders of the badges.

[SarDragon]

[changed]

Y'all type too fast!

[jb512]

If I'm reading it right, the two badges will have a 1/4" space between them because of the 1/8" border with the 1/2" white to white measurement.  The nametape to bottom badge will have a gap because you're measuring from nametape to white.  Correct?

Yes, it'll be about 1/4" between blue borders of the badges.

Then the two gaps will be slightly off because of the nametape...  came out to 0.375" for nametape to white.

[jb512]

[changed]

Y'all type too fast!

Yeah, I screwed up my math the first time and changed it real quick after I posted.   

[Stonewall]

If I'm reading it right, the two badges will have a 1/4" space between them because of the 1/8" border with the 1/2" white to white measurement.  The nametape to bottom badge will have a gap because you're measuring from nametape to white.  Correct?

Yes, it'll be about 1/4" between blue borders of the badges.

Then the two gaps will be slightly off because of the nametape...  came out to 0.375" for nametape to white.

Now you're just throwing numbers (read: math) at me, and it's not fair.   

Isn't there a 1/8" space between the letters and the material of the nametapes?  If so, then the gap between the blue in the nametape and the blue of the badge should be the same as the badges above.

I just looked at my Air Force BDUs and the spaces are even between the nametape and the first and second badges.  I didn't sew my Air Force stuff, the Air Force tailor shop at the uniform shop did.  And you know they never mess anything up 

[arajca]

In the ever-popular, best selling CAPM 39-1, Table 6-4, it says above the Civil AIr PAtrol tape. For other insignia, is says badge. So, you measure from the top of the tape material to the bottom of the embriodery for the baadge closest to the tape and from the embriodery to the embroidery for the badge above that.

[Eclipse]

In the ever-popular, best selling CAPM 39-1, Table 6-4, it says above the Civil AIr PAtrol tape. For other insignia, is says badge. So, you measure from the top of the tape material to the bottom of the embriodery for the baadge closest to the tape and from the embriodery to the embroidery for the badge above that.

So, working up from the name tape, its actually blue-white, then white-to white, right?

[jb512]

In the ever-popular, best selling CAPM 39-1, Table 6-4, it says above the Civil AIr PAtrol tape. For other insignia, is says badge. So, you measure from the top of the tape material to the bottom of the embriodery for the baadge closest to the tape and from the embriodery to the embroidery for the badge above that.

So, working up from the name tape, its actually blue-white, then white-to white, right?

The way it's written it is.  If you go by the letter, then the spaces will be slightly off.

[jb512]

If I'm reading it right, the two badges will have a 1/4" space between them because of the 1/8" border with the 1/2" white to white measurement.  The nametape to bottom badge will have a gap because you're measuring from nametape to white.  Correct?

Yes, it'll be about 1/4" between blue borders of the badges.

Then the two gaps will be slightly off because of the nametape...  came out to 0.375" for nametape to white.

Now you're just throwing numbers (read: math) at me, and it's not fair.   

Isn't there a 1/8" space between the letters and the material of the nametapes?  If so, then the gap between the blue in the nametape and the blue of the badge should be the same as the badges above.

I just looked at my Air Force BDUs and the spaces are even between the nametape and the first and second badges.  I didn't sew my Air Force stuff, the Air Force tailor shop at the uniform shop did.  And you know they never mess anything up 

Ehh, it's not even worth wasting space on the board to talk about.  It says nametape to white, then white to white so the gaps will be different.  I went crazy and just did 1/4" between all blue... out of control.

[Stonewall]

Sorry, dude.  I'm not at home and don't have my CAP BDUs to reference.  Whatever the reg is, that's what I did.

In the Army, the measurements are purposely off.  If you have two badges, the first is 1/4" from the tape, then the second is 1/8" above the first badge.  Same goes above ribbons on Class As.  At least that's the way it was back in the day (which, for your information, was a Wednesday).

[jb512]

I thought that the AF was the only one with such a huge gap between ribbons and badges.  For some reason I thought all the other services were less than the 1/2 inch.

[Hawk200]

In the Army, the measurements are purposely off.  If you have two badges, the first is 1/4" from the tape, then the second is 1/8" above the first badge.  Same goes above ribbons on Class As. 

Nah, man, 'fraid not. First one is 1/4", like you said. Second one, however, is 1/2" above the first. That's from the 3 Feb 2005 edition of 670-1. Check paragragh 29-17 d, last line. In paper format, it's on page 300. On a PDF file, go to page 323.

Pretty much the only time an 1/8" measurement applies to badges is when it's on the pocket flap, or below ribbons.

[Stonewall]

I'm sorry bro, my mind is totally slipping, being up here in Georgia on orders.  Next to tech school, this is the longest I've been "playing air force".

Hawk is right, I meant the opposite, it goes from 1/4" to 1/2", not the opposite.  I'm usually posting this stuff from the comfort of my own home where I have reference materials.  I'll stop trying to do this stuff off the top of my head.

[Hawk200]

I'm sorry bro, my mind is totally slipping, being up here in Georgia on orders.  Next to tech school, this is the longest I've been "playing air force".

Hawk is right, I meant the opposite, it goes from 1/4" to 1/2", not the opposite.  I'm usually posting this stuff from the comfort of my own home where I have reference materials.  I'll stop trying to do this stuff off the top of my head.

No worries, brother. Lived in Georgia for a while, know what it does to a person. 

[gallagheria]

Question on the placement of patches. The American flag goes on the right side. Where does the wing patch go and where does the local unit patch go (as far as left pocket and right pocket)? I have seen them vice-versa, and some units are still wearing them on the shoulder.

[Capt M. Sherrod]

Depending on your wing, it may or may not be mandated on Left sleeve.  As far as a unit patch, that should be on the pocket that your name is above.  IIRC.

[davedove]

Depending on your wing, it may or may not be mandated on Left sleeve.  As far as a unit patch, that should be on the pocket that your name is above.  IIRC.

That's right.  If you choose to wear the optional unit patch, it is worn centered on the upper right BDU pocket.

[gallagheria]

You have me confused now. Sorry, but I am new to CAP, and am Army, where I have learned things are a bit easier on the uniform.

The reg says:

g. Optional patches previously worn on the right shoulder of the BDUs, field and utility uniforms. Those patches that were removed to allow wear of the reverse American flag on the right shoulder are now authorized to be worn centered on the lower portion of the left pocket or corresponding position on the utility uniform. The mandatory wear date of the reverse American flag was extended to 1 April 2007.

This would be beneath the "U.S. Civil Air Patrol."

[MIKE]

That is not refering to unit patches... It refers to activity patches which were previously worn on the right shoulder of the BDU, Field Uniform and field jackets.

[jimmydeanno]

You have me confused now. Sorry, but I am new to CAP, and am Army, where I have learned things are a bit easier on the uniform.

The reg says:

g. Optional patches previously worn on the right shoulder of the BDUs, field and utility uniforms. Those patches that were removed to allow wear of the reverse American flag on the right shoulder are now authorized to be worn centered on the lower portion of the left pocket or corresponding position on the utility uniform. The mandatory wear date of the reverse American flag was extended to 1 April 2007.

This would be beneath the "U.S. Civil Air Patrol."

Those patches are ones like the NCSA patches (Hawk Mtn, NESA, COS, etc).  They go on the left breast pocket centered as stated.  The unit patch (squadron, group) go on the right breast pocket centered.  The Reverse American Flag goes on the right sleeve, 1/2 inch down from the shoulder seam, centered.  The Wing Patch (if required) goes on the left sleeve, 1/2 down from the shoulder seam, centered.

[gallagheria]

that seems to make more sense. Way too many patches . . .

[davedove]

that seems to make more sense. Way too many patches . . .

There are several patches, but it all boils down to six locations.

Right Shoulder:  Reverse US Flag Patch (required)
Left Shoulder:  Wing Patch
Right Breast above Name Tape:  Emergency Services Patch
Left Breast above CAP Tape:  Aeronautical and specialty badges
Right Pocket:  Unit Patch
Left Pocket:  Special activity, qualification patch

The only badge required is the US Flag.  There may be some variation based on Wing, but I believe all the others are optional.  Most people will wear their badges.

I have one uniform I am keeping fairly free of patches and one I call my "NASCAR Driver" uniform where I am putting a patch everywhere I'm authorized.

[MIKE]

You forgot the Model Rocketry patch which can be worn in lieu of the unit patch on the right pocket by cadets.

[Hawk200]

You forgot the Model Rocketry patch which can be worn in lieu of the unit patch on the right pocket by cadets.

A little (or not) emphasis added. Can't count how many times I've seen it worn wrong. Like on the left side.

[J2H]

At Nametags4u.com, is the color "royal" for the blue?

[Stonewall]

The color is ultra marine. But do it the old-fashioned way and call them. They will know what you are talking about. They even have a section on their website that talks about making military badges for civil air patrol uniforms.

https://www.nametags4u.com/civilairpatrol/

[LGM30GMCC]

You forgot the Model Rocketry patch which can be worn in lieu of the unit patch on the right pocket by cadets.

A little (or not) emphasis added. Can't count how many times I've seen it worn wrong. Like on the left side.

Probably because the patch and the badge are worn on opposite sides. (Little strange really)

Personally I think we should get rid of the patch (whenever possible for any patch) and just make the model rocketry badge in white on ultramarine blue and have it sewn on. Just like a missile ops or MX badge on BDUs/ABUs.