Vice Commander Applications

[MSG Mac]

National HQ has now requested that applications for the post of National Vice Commander be submitted NLT 15 May 14. Same criteria as for National Commander.
Former Wing Commander
Bachelor's Degree
Level V
Submit to a background and credit checks.

[James Shaw]

Well I match all but Former Wing Commander, I guess I will have to wait.

[MSG Mac]

So do I.

[Panache]

If it's the same requirements for National CC, than those "requirements" are just "suggestions".  Feel free to apply if interested.

[PHall]

If it's the same requirements for National CC, than those "requirements" are just "suggestions".  Feel free to apply if interested.

They're not "suggestions", they are requirements. But the BoG has stated that they will consider waiviers for some requirements on a case-by-case basis.
But would have to pled a pretty good case to get them to waive the Wing/Region Commander requirement.
Something like running a sucessful medium size business might work.

[Panache]

If it's the same requirements for National CC, than those "requirements" are just "suggestions".  Feel free to apply if interested.

They're not "suggestions", they are requirements. But the BoG has stated that they will consider waiviers for some requirements on a case-by-case basis.

Okay.  "Strongly-worded suggestions" then.

[lordmonar]

If it's the same requirements for National CC, than those "requirements" are just "suggestions".  Feel free to apply if interested.

They're not "suggestions", they are requirements. But the BoG has stated that they will consider waiviers for some requirements on a case-by-case basis.

Okay.  "Strongly-worded suggestions" then.

No....a requirement......with the caveat that the whose who wrote the requirement may ignore it if they think it is in the interest of the organization.

But yes your point is taken......if you want to try for the job.....go for it.....the worst that will happen is they say no.

[Panache]

They're not really requirements if they're not really required, are they?

[Mitchell 1969]

They're not really requirements if they're not really required, are they?

Requirements that can be waived = "waiverments?"  Or..."requiwaives?"

[Panache]

Requirements that can be waived = "waiverments?"  Or..."requiwaives?"

I think this is an acceptable compromise.   

[Flying Pig]

Where there is a will, there is a waiver.

[The14th]

Having legit requirements like that makes the position look good, but waiving them kind of defeats the purpose. Just means that will take whoever they actually want, regardless.

[JeffDG]

Having legit requirements like that makes the position look good, but waiving them kind of defeats the purpose. Just means that will take whoever they actually want, regardless.

No, it lets them set expectations, while at the same time leaving themselves flexibility for extraordinary people who don't meet them.

Take, for example, the degree requirement.  Who does not think that people like Bill Gates or Sir Richard Branson do not have experience equivalent to a degree, even though they're college dropouts?

Strict requirements lead to brain-dead decisions, like zero tolerance policies.  Waiverability leads to decision-makers exercising something called "judgement".

[Eclipse]

The problem is that they are characterized as "requirements", which means by design it
will pre-filter those "otherwise qualified" candidates before they even get a chance to
be compared to other applicants.

The Gates' and Bransons' would review the "requirements" and close the page.

I suppose you could make the argument that by the time anyone gets to the point
where they are experientially qualified (running Microsoft is not the same as running CAP)
for HEADCAP, they would have actually read the regs, as well as the C&B, and thus would know the "requirements" aren't.

What it should say is something to the effect of "preferred skills and experience", etc.

[Ned]

The minimum qualifications required for the National Commander and Vice Commander are found in the CAP Constitution, Article XIII.

The letters calling for nominations are simply quoting the CAP Constitution, which also inlcudes the ability for the BoG to waive a requirement should the applicant be able to "demonstrate comparable skills and experience."

As it turns out, two applicants for the National Commander position requested a waiver.  Neither was selected.

[LSThiker]

As it turns out, two applicants for the National Commander position requested a waiver.  Neither was selected.

So out of curiosity, what would qualify, in your opinion, as a successful waiver request?  Obviously speaking in general as all situations are different.  So what would you think would be a good waiver request for say "former wing commander" or "level V"?

Just trying to see where in general the bar is.

[Alaric]

I agree with Eclipse, they should call them something other than requirements my dictionary defines requirement as: something that is needed or that must be done; or something that is necessary for something else to happen or be done.  If you can waive them then they are not needed nor must they be done.

[THRAWN]

I agree with Eclipse, they should call them something other than requirements my dictionary defines requirement as: something that is needed or that must be done; or something that is necessary for something else to happen or be done.  If you can waive them then they are not needed nor must they be done.

Reminds me of something I heard once about either making jaywalking a felony or murder a misdemeanor...

If it's required, it can't be waived. If it can be waived, it's not required. This shouldn't even be a thing.

[JeffDG]

As it turns out, two applicants for the National Commander position requested a waiver.  Neither was selected.

So out of curiosity, what would qualify, in your opinion, as a successful waiver request?  Obviously speaking in general as all situations are different.  So what would you think would be a good waiver request for say "former wing commander" or "level V"?

Just trying to see where in general the bar is.

Not a BoG member, but here's a for-instance for you.

Let's say that Col. Gloyd, CAP-USAF/CC were to retire from the USAF and apply for the job.  He has years of experience working with CAP at a strategic level, has worked closely with multiple CAP/CCs and CAP/CVs along with Region/CCs and Wing/CCs.  As he has not been a CAP member, he, of course, has never achieved his Level V, nor has he ever been a Wing/CC or Region/CC.

Now, that may or may not make him the best candidate for the job, but I would submit that his experience in CAP-USAF is sufficient to at least merit his consideration for such a role, and would merit a waiver of the Level V and Wing/Region Command requirements.

[JeffDG]

I agree with Eclipse, they should call them something other than requirements my dictionary defines requirement as: something that is needed or that must be done; or something that is necessary for something else to happen or be done.  If you can waive them then they are not needed nor must they be done.

Well, if they didn't have waiver authority, the BoG has the authority to simply amend the C&BL of CAP.  So, if they wanted to, they can amend the requirements at any time they deem it to be appropriate to do so.  The C&BL simply formalizes this authority in this instance by granting them the ability to waive the requirement.