Hawk Mountain Ranger School 2014

[Eclipse]

In a paramilitary environment, it's not hard to know who's in charge, and your chain should be
pretty short, regardless.

I got that request every year for encampment.

"How will the basics students know who we are?"

"Introduce yourself?"

A cadet in the cadre only needs to know who >his< flight staff are, not all of them, and if they are too
far off, there's a break down somewhere.  If things are handed off temporarily, then they need to be
told specifically, not left to guess based on shirt color.

And its not like this is a "seconds count, no time for backup, shoulder roll in" where "if you ask the wrong guy
people die"  this is a (presumably) controlled training environment where the staff are clearly known by all.

[Panzerbjorn]

I had a cadet wear his orange t-shirt once to a meeting. He quickly learned his lesson and never did again.

We let them wear their orange t-shirts and orange hats on the second BDU night of the month.  They earned them, nothing wrong with letting them show their pride.

[Storm Chaser]

I had a cadet wear his orange t-shirt once to a meeting. He quickly learned his lesson and never did again.

We let them wear their orange t-shirts and orange hats on the second BDU night of the month.  They earned them, nothing wrong with letting them show their pride.

No, they haven't. Not according to CAPM 39-1, away.

I can care less if they wear orange tutus at HMRS, but when members return to their home units, they need to leave those behind.

[Eclipse]

^ Well, that's kind of a fine point.  They have earned them, whether they mean anything locally is another conversation.

I could see allowing the stuff for wear once, right after Hawk, but I agree, on a regular basis they shouldn't, because
it really does set up an undeserved "special", and even if you like the idea, it's not supported or allowed by the regs,
and this is the kind of thing that starts them showing up elsewhere in those duds, which begins the "my Unit CC
says it's OK and this is all I brought" conversations.

Allowing them to show off their accomplishment once is fine, letting them break 39-1 every month because they
went to an NCSA 2 years ago isn't a good idea.

Unless you're going to let the NESA MAS guys wear shorts as a uniform, etc., etc., because at the end of the day it's
exactly the same thing.

[Storm Chaser]

CAPM 39-1 already allows HMRS graduates to wear their NCSA patch, a "Ranger" tab indicating their rating/level and an orange baseball cap. Why would anyone insist in wearing an orange t-shirt that's clearly not authorized?

[Luis R. Ramos]

Can I act as a curmudgeon?

The problem of interpretation of CAPM 39-1 or changing what it says is to be worn locally... This actually starts when commanders request recruit cadets wear black and whites until their applications are processed.

CAPM 39-1 does not requires this Black and White as uniform, this is more a "tradition."

And the dictum that "Commanders can request members wear one uniform to achieve a uniform appearance?" may not apply as these are recruits but not actually members yet...

By the way, I am not advocating a "right or wrong" side. As a squadron commander I will ask my new recruits to come in Black and Whites...

Or if an administrator believes this actually belongs in a different thread by itself, please let me know...

[sarmed1]

Please do not tell us that PAWG is going to try and supplement a reg to circumvent verbiage directed square at them.

I dont know, they have a supplement that is "current" that appears to do just that.
Ranger Fold is not directed at them.  Its a military term, in this case the whole paragraph is "stolen" from the AFI, with the exception of BDU or BBDu replacing the word ABU.  In the military doing things to the patrol style hat is a common issue, thats why it is addressed; if the concern was with the way HMRS wears their hats I am sure it would have been addressed in the section on HMRS's hat.

I would argue that hats are discussed in multiple sections, but the info about "Ranger Folds" is only discussed in reference to patrol style hats.  (BDU and BBDU)  in the BDU case you can have a baseball style hat of a BDU color, that follows the same rules as a patrol style or you can choose a CAP baseball hat of a color specified by the wing or region commander.  A entirely different numbered section under head gear.   HMRS's hat is falls under this section (as it is directed by the wing CC in regards to mandatory wear and specified color, and the wing CC issued a supplement with the details)

I would not disagree that they should have switched to cloth rank as directed by the new 39-1, however lets not be that dramatic.  The pub date was 26 June, the school started 11 July, thats not " several months"..... ( tit-for-tat i am sure the day that the change letter came out re-authorizing ranger tabs, most everyone who was authorized one, sewed it on)

and from what I have heard, it was more of a lobbying by rather than against.....but only then NUC really knows that one.

MK

[sarmed1]

I had a cadet wear his orange t-shirt once to a meeting. He quickly learned his lesson and never did again.

We let them wear their orange t-shirts and orange hats on the second BDU night of the month.  They earned them, nothing wrong with letting them show their pride.

No, they haven't. Not according to CAPM 39-1, away.


I can care less if they wear orange tutus at HMRS, but when members return to their home units, they need to leave those behind.

Shirt no, (not addressed in 39-1, only in PA by wing supplement) hat yes (has a specific mention in the 39-1...Chap 9)  Commanders can of course specify uniform, but 39-1 does say it is allowed, it makes no limiting restriction on where or when.....

MK

[sarmed1]

Back to one of the original comments that off shot into a uniform discussion (as if it wouldnt go that way) I have no idea how the mud was also orange..... that was not part of the plan.... One can only assume that after years of extensive orange shirts and rain the dye has somehow leached into the very rocks and soil

MK