One Choice

[LSThiker]

I would gladly give up the U.S. cutouts for the C.A.P. ones

Actually I think we should just ditch the US cutouts.  The Senior Member officers are the only ones to wear them.  The proposed wear for NCOs are the CAP cutouts.  So we have a difference in the uniforms with cadets and NCOs wearing the CAP cutouts, while SM officers wear the US cutouts.  Personally, just make the uniform well uniform and go with CAP cutouts for all.

[VNY]

I would gladly give up the U.S. cutouts for the C.A.P. ones

Actually I think we should just ditch the US cutouts.  The Senior Member officers are the only ones to wear them.  The proposed wear for NCOs are the CAP cutouts.  So we have a difference in the uniforms with cadets and NCOs wearing the CAP cutouts, while SM officers wear the US cutouts.  Personally, just make the uniform well uniform and go with CAP cutouts for all.

Since the slide on ranks have CAP on them already I would say ditch the cutouts period.  Otherwise you are wearing "CAP" four times and its redundant.  USAF does not have cutouts on the shoulders which we effectively do given the current insignia arrangement.

[Storm Chaser]

Because we have CAP embroidered above the grade insignia on our epaulet slides, the Air Force allows us to wear the U.S. cutouts, just as they do. Before they removed the metal grade insignia off our service dress coat, we wore C.A.P. cutouts on the lapel. The Air Force wears cutouts on their service dress coat. We have always done so as well. I don't agree with eliminating them completely.

[LSThiker]

Because we have CAP embroidered above the grade insignia on our epaulet slides, the Air Force allows us to wear the U.S. cutouts, just as they do.

But the proposed NCO uniform will have CAP on the rank as well as a propeller (as opposed to the star), yet they will wear CAP cutouts.

[Storm Chaser]

Because we have CAP embroidered above the grade insignia on our epaulet slides, the Air Force allows us to wear the U.S. cutouts, just as they do.

But the proposed NCO uniform will have CAP on the rank as well as a propeller (as opposed to the star), yet they will wear CAP cutouts.

That's a carryover from previous uniform rules. It's very possible that in the future, CAP NCOs may be allowed to wear the encircled U.S. cutouts. That requires Air Force approval and I don't see the need to delay the new uniform manual for that change. When/if it happens, CAPM 39-1 can be updated.

[LSThiker]

That's a carryover from previous uniform rules. It's very possible that in the future, CAP NCOs may be allowed to wear the encircled U.S. cutouts. That requires Air Force approval and I don't see the need to delay the new uniform manual for that change. When/if it happens, CAPM 39-1 can be updated.

And the wear of Air Force NCO-style insignia with propeller and CAP does not require USAF-approval?  This would have been the best time to request such a change to the NCO uniform.  If you are going to overhaul the rank insignia, then overhaul the rest of the uniform.  Now, if the USAF said no, then I would definitely say the officers ditch the US cutouts.  But then again this is really a solution looking for a problem.

[arajca]

Because we have CAP embroidered above the grade insignia on our epaulet slides, the Air Force allows us to wear the U.S. cutouts, just as they do.

But the proposed NCO uniform will have CAP on the rank as well as a propeller (as opposed to the star), yet they will wear CAP cutouts.

That's a carryover from previous uniform rules. It's very possible that in the future, CAP NCOs may be allowed to wear the encircled U.S. cutouts. That requires Air Force approval and I don't see the need to delay the new uniform manual for that change. When/if it happens, CAPM 39-1 can be updated.

Or an ICL can be issued. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

That's a carryover from previous uniform rules. It's very possible that in the future, CAP NCOs may be allowed to wear the encircled U.S. cutouts. That requires Air Force approval and I don't see the need to delay the new uniform manual for that change. When/if it happens, CAPM 39-1 can be updated.

And the wear of Air Force NCO-style insignia with propeller and CAP does not require USAF-approval?  This would have been the best time to request such a change to the NCO uniform.  If you are going to overhaul the rank insignia, then overhaul the rest of the uniform.  Now, if the USAF said no, then I would definitely say the officers ditch the US cutouts.  But then again this is really a solution looking for a problem.

Putting "CAP" on the NCO insignia is really overkill, given that CAP NCO's wear CAP cutouts already.  The tri-prop is enough to distinguish it.  For military personnel curious about the insignia there is an easy solution...ASK.

"Sergeant, why do you have the three-bladed prop on your stripes instead of the USAF star?"

"Because I am a noncommissioned officer in the Civil Air Patrol, the volunteer civilian Auxiliary of the USAF."

That would present a good opportunity to educate the asker about CAP.

[LSThiker]

Putting "CAP" on the NCO insignia is really overkill, given that CAP NCO's wear CAP cutouts already.  The tri-prop is enough to distinguish it.

I am curious if that was not a requirement set forth by the USAF. 

[Storm Chaser]

That's a carryover from previous uniform rules. It's very possible that in the future, CAP NCOs may be allowed to wear the encircled U.S. cutouts. That requires Air Force approval and I don't see the need to delay the new uniform manual for that change. When/if it happens, CAPM 39-1 can be updated.

And the wear of Air Force NCO-style insignia with propeller and CAP does not require USAF-approval?  This would have been the best time to request such a change to the NCO uniform.  If you are going to overhaul the rank insignia, then overhaul the rest of the uniform.  Now, if the USAF said no, then I would definitely say the officers ditch the US cutouts.  But then again this is really a solution looking for a problem.

Putting "CAP" on the NCO insignia is really overkill, given that CAP NCO's wear CAP cutouts already.  The tri-prop is enough to distinguish it.  For military personnel curious about the insignia there is an easy solution...ASK.

"Sergeant, why do you have the three-bladed prop on your stripes instead of the USAF star?"

"Because I am a noncommissioned officer in the Civil Air Patrol, the volunteer civilian Auxiliary of the USAF."

That would present a good opportunity to educate the asker about CAP.

Not necessarily. While I'm not crazy about the new design, this change allows for the C.A.P. cutouts to be removed from the collar of the AF-style service uniform, which is on par with our parent service. The same applies to the embroidered CAP collar insignia on the BDUs (although I admit it was never necessary as the blue and white insignia have always sticked out enough on it's own).

I am curious if that was not a requirement set forth by the USAF.

It's very possible.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

...this change allows for the C.A.P. cutouts to be removed from the collar of the AF-style service uniform, which is on par with our parent service. The same applies to the embroidered CAP collar insignia on the BDUs (although I admit it was never necessary as the blue and white insignia have always sticked out enough on it's own).

Please explain, because there is something I am not getting.  Our parent service wears U.S. cutouts in different designs for officers and enlisted.

I would support us going the route of CAP cutouts; as-is for officers and within the circle for enlisted/NCO.

That is, if we would get at least blue rank slides with "CAP" embroidered on them back.

[PHall]

That is, if we would get at least blue rank slides with "CAP" embroidered on them back.

Cadet Officers wear those right now.

[MSG Mac]

That is, if we would get at least blue rank slides with "CAP" embroidered on them back.

Cadet Officers wear those right now.

Blue grade slides are for  "Real People"!

[Panache]

That is, if we would get at least blue rank slides with "CAP" embroidered on them back.

Cadet Officers wear those right now.

Blue grade slides are for  "Real People"!

Not us dirty, unwashed CAP proles.

[Storm Chaser]

...this change allows for the C.A.P. cutouts to be removed from the collar of the AF-style service uniform, which is on par with our parent service. The same applies to the embroidered CAP collar insignia on the BDUs (although I admit it was never necessary as the blue and white insignia have always sticked out enough on it's own).

Please explain, because there is something I am not getting.  Our parent service wears U.S. cutouts in different designs for officers and enlisted.

The U.S. cutouts are worn on the service dress coat. I was referring to the blue service shirt. Currently, CAP NCOs must wear C.A.P. cutouts on their shirt collars (CAP officers don't wear them). That was necessary because they wore the same chevron as Air Force NCOs. Now that they have CAP embroidered on their chevrons, there's no need for C.A.P. cutouts on the service shirt. Since Air Force NCOs don't wear any either, that puts our NCOs on par with the Air Force (with regards to collar insignias).

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Got it.  I thought you were referring to the service coat.  My mistake.

[NM SAR]

As a reply to the original post, I'd like to reassign the senior and master GT badges to GTM-2 and GTM-1, and make a different badge altogether for GTL and GBD. I feel that those who earn GTM-2 or -1 should have a badge to show it.