One Choice

[ColonelJack]

No it implies that the polo and khaki uniform is relatively inexpensive, easy to acquire, wearable by everyone, and does not require constant updating for new ribbons, rank, etch

So ... what I hear you saying is ... we don't need military-style uniforms at all.  Is that right?  Because if so, we wouldn't need to worry about ribbons, rank, etc., since - in this scenario - we wouldn't ever have a need for them.  Do I have that right?

Jack

You do.  Don't have to like my opinion, but its my opinion and I'm entitled to it.  I think there is way too much emphasis on rank and ribbons in this organization and way too little on getting the job done.

And I have no difficulty with you having an opinion and expressing it.  But it makes me wonder ... why did you join an organization that has rank and ribbons and all that jazz in the first place?  I'm not in the least belittling your contribution to CAP - and I want to be clear that I am very glad you're a member.  That being said, however, the question remains:  If you knew going in that this was an organization based on a military model, with rank and ribbons and all that stuff ... and you don't like any of that ... why did you become a member?

Jack

[ColonelJack]

Just to stir the pot, but what does it say about us as an organization that the question assumes uniforms are the first thing someone would change as a National Commander for a day, rather than contributing meaningfully to our core missions of Cadet Programs, Aerospace Education, and Emergency Services? Not that I have anything useful to contribute to the thread, but I have to have hope that what we wear would be secondary to what we do.

Agreed

You may be surprised to find that I agree also.  What we wear is not as important as what we do.

However, the uniform is a part of what we do.  Our parent service says so.  Our regulations say so.  So if you don't want to wear a uniform and all that ... why be here at all?

Jack

[Alaric]

Just to stir the pot, but what does it say about us as an organization that the question assumes uniforms are the first thing someone would change as a National Commander for a day, rather than contributing meaningfully to our core missions of Cadet Programs, Aerospace Education, and Emergency Services? Not that I have anything useful to contribute to the thread, but I have to have hope that what we wear would be secondary to what we do.

Agreed

You may be surprised to find that I agree also.  What we wear is not as important as what we do.

However, the uniform is a part of what we do.  Our parent service says so.  Our regulations say so.  So if you don't want to wear a uniform and all that ... why be here at all?

Jack

I was asked what change I would make, I stated what change I would make.  Also a polo shirt and khakis is a uniform as everyone would be wearing it.  It just may not be the uniform you think we should wear.

[UH60guy]

Just to stir the pot, but what does it say about us as an organization that the question assumes uniforms are the first thing someone would change as a National Commander for a day, rather than contributing meaningfully to our core missions of Cadet Programs, Aerospace Education, and Emergency Services? Not that I have anything useful to contribute to the thread, but I have to have hope that what we wear would be secondary to what we do.

Agreed

You may be surprised to find that I agree also.  What we wear is not as important as what we do.

However, the uniform is a part of what we do.  Our parent service says so.  Our regulations say so.  So if you don't want to wear a uniform and all that ... why be here at all?

Jack

I'm not saying I don't want to wear the uniform. I wear it proudly, just as I wear the Army uniform proudly in my day job. However, my thought is that... well... forgive me but I don't know how to express what I'm trying to say. Maybe some is lost in translation from spoken word to text, others in that I'm just not a good... word.. using... guy.

But, here goes. It seems like we place so much emphasis on what we wear, rather than just wearing it and getting the job done. I know, and I agree, that the uniform is a source of pride and a way to show off our accomplishments, as well as to demonstrate our close ties with the parent Service. I just feel (maybe that's the word, "feel") that many, or even most, of us tend to put the uniform front and center, above all else.

In my view, even CAP publications put too much emphasis on it. Have you looked at the pamphlets we send to new senior members? It seems like 50% is dedicated to uniforms and bling, rather than focusing on getting them situated and on a path to contribute meaningfully.

If I just wanted to wear a uniform, I could walk down the street to Ranger Joe's and buy one. Heck, you can see plenty of clowns around the web who do just that. To me the uniform has to mean something- in this case it represents my service to CAP, and what CAP represents to the Nation. However, that's as far as it goes. The uniform's a tool of the trade, not THE trade itself. That's probably getting closer to the point I'm trying to make, I just fear I'm not articulating what I mean to say well.

[Alaric]

No it implies that the polo and khaki uniform is relatively inexpensive, easy to acquire, wearable by everyone, and does not require constant updating for new ribbons, rank, etch

So ... what I hear you saying is ... we don't need military-style uniforms at all.  Is that right?  Because if so, we wouldn't need to worry about ribbons, rank, etc., since - in this scenario - we wouldn't ever have a need for them.  Do I have that right?

Jack

You do.  Don't have to like my opinion, but its my opinion and I'm entitled to it.  I think there is way too much emphasis on rank and ribbons in this organization and way too little on getting the job done.

And I have no difficulty with you having an opinion and expressing it.  But it makes me wonder ... why did you join an organization that has rank and ribbons and all that jazz in the first place?  I'm not in the least belittling your contribution to CAP - and I want to be clear that I am very glad you're a member.  That being said, however, the question remains:  If you knew going in that this was an organization based on a military model, with rank and ribbons and all that stuff ... and you don't like any of that ... why did you become a member?

Jack

As the lawyers say, you presume facts not in evidence. 

Whether I like rank and ribbons or not; I feel they cause more divisiveness than contribution to the organization as a whole.  Too many senior members are far too preoccupied with rank and ribbons.  That being the case, given the opportunity I would do away with them, perhaps then we could get our members to focus on AE, CP, and ES and not themselves.

[Eclipse]

Well, I guess the OP gets a Troll with V-Device.

Seriously, you guys walked right into a drive-by and started the same tired discussion.

[UH60guy]

^Oh, you're right. But which uniform would he put it on? 

[pascocap2002]

I've made you National Commander of CAP for the day. But you can make only ONE frivolous uniform change. I'll be nice and let it be as big or small of a change as you want. What is your biggest OCD issue with the uniforms CAPTalk.

I would make 1 uniform for ES, AE, and CP but I would have different badges that a member would wear that would show what they do in the organization. If your in AE, then you would wear the AE badge. If your in AE and ES, then you get to wear both badges. Then, I would create a regulation that would govern the use and the wear of the uniform and mimic AF standards and just for grins, I would name it the 39-1.

Here is where my idea for a uniform would get interesting:

I would form a panel of people (Not national board or anyone from NHQ, Region, or Wing staff but at least 2 members of the USAF) and that panel will listen to the general members ideas for uniforms and then make changes based upon members suggestions.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I would form a panel of people (Not national board or anyone from NHQ, Region, or Wing staff but at least 2 members of the USAF) and that panel will listen to the general members ideas for uniforms and then make changes based upon members suggestions.

HORROR OF HORRORS!!!!

[abdsp51]

I would can the polo shirt right away.

[ol'fido]

/quote]I see from your waffenfarbe that you are in the artillery. I didn't realize that CAP had field artillery. Maybe in PAWG.

[ol'fido]

^^^^^^^
I have no idea what I did.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

/quote]


Das ist beβer, nicht wahr?

For those unfamiliar...the graphic is of a Stabshauptmann, an officer in the Bundesheer and Luftwaffe who is a "senior captain" and unlikely to be promoted beyond such.

[VNY]

I would can the polo shirt right away.

Just relegate it to what it is - a field/working uniform not suitable for regular meetings.  The new 39-1 actually seems to have addressed this - and corrected the problem.

[abdsp51]

I would can the polo shirt right away.

Just relegate it to what it is - a field/working uniform not suitable for regular meetings.  The new 39-1 actually seems to have addressed this - and corrected the problem.

I would get rid of it for good....

[pascocap2002]

I would form a panel of people (Not national board or anyone from NHQ, Region, or Wing staff but at least 2 members of the USAF) and that panel will listen to the general members ideas for uniforms and then make changes based upon members suggestions.

HORROR OF HORRORS!!!!

Finally, someone who sees my sarcasm. +1 to you sir.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I would form a panel of people (Not national board or anyone from NHQ, Region, or Wing staff but at least 2 members of the USAF) and that panel will listen to the general members ideas for uniforms and then make changes based upon members suggestions.

HORROR OF HORRORS!!!!

Finally, someone who sees my sarcasm. +1 to you sir.

How can any posting saying that CAP leadership listening to members on uniform issues be anything but sarcasm?

As for the polo shirt, even though I have never worn one and do not plan to own one, I would not completely get rid of it.  It has its place - as a casual duty uniform; i.e., for squadron meetings in the summer.

It should never be the only uniform a member owns, which is contrary to regulations anyway.

[VNY]

As for the polo shirt, even though I have never worn one and do not plan to own one, I would not completely get rid of it.  It has its place - as a casual duty uniform; i.e., for squadron meetings in the summer.

It should never be the only uniform a member owns, which is contrary to regulations anyway.

The new regulation puts the polo shirt in the same uniform class as BDU and Flight Suits.  It isn't a service (AKA Class B) uniform anymore - and really never should have been.  I'm guessing that may be a holdover from the fact the polo shirt replaced the Guyaberra shirt and went in the same category by default.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The new regulation puts the polo shirt in the same uniform class as BDU and Flight Suits.  It isn't a service (AKA Class B) uniform anymore - and really never should have been.  I'm guessing that may be a holdover from the fact the polo shirt replaced the Guyaberra shirt and went in the same category by default.

I came in during the last of the era of the Guyaberra shirt.  I remember seeing them in the Bookstore catalogue, but I do not remember actually seeing a CAP member wearing one.  However, I do remember seeing a fair amount of "Smurf suits," though I never had one.

There were a few different styles of polo shirt when I came in.  I remember (and my memory is dodgy on this one, so please bear with me) an ultramarine blue one with white stencilled CAP crest, a white one with blue stencilled CAP crest, and something like the present-day one with the sewn-on CAP crest.  However I do not remember if the name/wings embroidery were available back then.

No doubt the regulations did not intend it this way, but the polo shirt back then was looked at largely as a "recreational" uniform, or even could be worn off-duty if one felt like it.  In other words...not really a "uniform" at all.

My unit CC wore the ultramarine blue one to one meeting because he had sent in his yearly dues but had not received his updated ID card (the old horrible flimsy blue and white ones with writing that easily smeared) back yet and did not believe he should wear our "normal" duty uniform (AF blue) until he had got it.

Again, probably not what regulations intended.

[Storm Chaser]

As for the polo shirt, even though I have never worn one and do not plan to own one, I would not completely get rid of it.  It has its place - as a casual duty uniform; i.e., for squadron meetings in the summer.

It should never be the only uniform a member owns, which is contrary to regulations anyway.

The new regulation puts the polo shirt in the same uniform class as BDU and Flight Suits.  It isn't a service (AKA Class B) uniform anymore - and really never should have been.  I'm guessing that may be a holdover from the fact the polo shirt replaced the Guyaberra shirt and went in the same category by default.

That's true to an extend. The polo shirt with gray pants is a work uniform, but not a field uniform. It should not be worn in field conditions, such as doing ground search and rescue in the wilderness.