Reshaping the Civil Air Patrol

[FlyTiger77]

Can we agree on that?

No

I apologize. This was thrown together at the last minute. I was a bit short on time, and really didn't look into most of that...

You started a thread wanting to perfect CAP, but you didn't have any time to research what was imperfect so you just moved straight to fixes you wanted to see for problems you weren't sure existed? That is certainly an interesting technique.

Is this:

..there should really be stricter policies on that...

not also a solution for:

...This was thrown together at the last minute. I was a bit short on time, and really didn't look into most of that.

[JeffDG]

You started a thread wanting to perfect CAP, but you didn't have any time to research what was imperfect so you just moved straight to fixes you wanted to see for problems you weren't sure existed? That is certainly an interesting technique.

You can't tell me you don't see, just about every day, solutions out there in desperate search for problems?

See the threads about changing grade structure and the NCO program...solutions in desperate search of problems.

[Eclipse]

Now you're thinking like an Officer!

"We've got this whole pile of solutions without problems, let's reuse them somewhere else!"

"Mrs. Whiggins, get in here and bring your steno pad, I've got leading to do..."

[Garibaldi]

Given what you said now it seems more like a failure in the leadership of the cadet program or in individual units more than a failure of CAP as a whole.

[Private Investigator]

Given what you said now it seems more like a failure in the leadership of the cadet program or in individual units more than a failure of CAP as a whole.

I concur.

Years ago one of my children expressed interest in CAP. I was on either Wing or Group Staff then so I figure I'll take him to visit three Squadrons. Just so happen one met on Mondays, one met on Tuesdays and the third on Wednesday. The first one was very military and professional, the second one wanted to be like the first. The third was like childcare but with some uniforms. They had a snack break and cookies and punch was served.

My son loved the Monday night Squadron. Later my youngest daughter liked the Wednesday night Squadron. So CAP can be a lot of things to lots of people. BTW, during the summertime they have lemonade instead of punch and Lori is getting a pony.   

[Panache]

See the threads about changing grade structure and the NCO program...solutions in desperate search of problems.

Heh.  Tell that to Major General Carr.

[TexasCadet]

[cut]
The third was like childcare but with some uniforms. They had a snack break and cookies and punch was served.
[/cut]

Did the senior members get donuts and coffee?

[RogueLeader]

[cut]
The third was like childcare but with some uniforms. They had a snack break and cookies and punch was served.
[/cut]

Did the senior members get donuts and coffee?

If they "donate". . . .

[JeffDG]

See the threads about changing grade structure and the NCO program...solutions in desperate search of problems.

Heh.  Tell that to Major General Carr.

If I run into him, I certainly will.

Apparently the problem is so acute that they couldn't even find a line to include it in the CAP Strategic Plan.

[ProdigalJim]

^^^^^^^

Precisely! Amen, brother!

Whether it's a good idea or a bad one is debatable (witness nearly 1,000 posts on the subject). But what puzzled me the most about it was why it seemed to jump to the head of the line from nowhere, versus many items in the Strategic Plan that I found exciting and promising if pursued.

But that's what happens when solutions go looking for problems.

[Flying Pig]

I apologize. This was thrown together at the last minute. I was a bit short on time, and really didn't look into most of that. Let me really say this:
1. We should really, for STARTERS. Really improve uniform inspections, and tighten our grip on that field. Some cadets I know have really awful uniforms, not following CAP 39-1. As in way off, and there should really be stricter policies on that.
2. Establish an annual squadron test on most fields, (Drill, SAR, Aerospace, Leadership, etc. PT shouldn't be part of it because, well, you know.).
3. And if the squadron has slacked/underperformed in a category, they should be punished.Can we agree on that?

What is it with you and punishment? 

[ol'fido]

I apologize. This was thrown together at the last minute. I was a bit short on time, and really didn't look into most of that. Let me really say this:
1. We should really, for STARTERS. Really improve uniform inspections, and tighten our grip on that field. Some cadets I know have really awful uniforms, not following CAP 39-1. As in way off, and there should really be stricter policies on that.
2. Establish an annual squadron test on most fields, (Drill, SAR, Aerospace, Leadership, etc. PT shouldn't be part of it because, well, you know.).
3. And if the squadron has slacked/underperformed in a category, they should be punished.Can we agree on that?

What is it with you and punishment?

My 7th grade science teacher always threatened to beat me "severely about the head and shoulders with a wet squirrel" if I got something wrong or said something really dumb. I don't know what it would really accomplish but it definitely sounded like something I wanted to avoid. Maybe we could do that with those underperforming squadrons. 

[Flying Pig]

Don't knock it until you've tried it.

[Papabird]

My 7th grade science teacher always threatened to beat me "severely about the head and shoulders with a wet squirrel" if I got something wrong or said something really dumb. I don't know what it would really accomplish but it definitely sounded like something I wanted to avoid. Maybe we could do that with those underperforming squadrons. 

<Insert spit-take emoticon here>

Randy, I have heard wet noodle and dead squirrel, but never a wet squirrel.  :clap:

[ol'fido]

Well, "Stormin' Norman" Carlile was a might different anyway.

[TexasCadet]

My 7th grade science teacher always threatened to beat me "severely about the head and shoulders with a wet squirrel" if I got something wrong or said something really dumb. I don't know what it would really accomplish but it definitely sounded like something I wanted to avoid. Maybe we could do that with those underperforming squadrons. 

<Insert spit-take emoticon here>

Randy, I have heard wet noodle and dead squirrel, but never a wet squirrel.  :clap:

Call PETA! Call PETA!!

[Alaric]

I apologize. This was thrown together at the last minute. I was a bit short on time, and really didn't look into most of that. Let me really say this:
1. We should really, for STARTERS. Really improve uniform inspections, and tighten our grip on that field. Some cadets I know have really awful uniforms, not following CAP 39-1. As in way off, and there should really be stricter policies on that.
2. Establish an annual squadron test on most fields, (Drill, SAR, Aerospace, Leadership, etc. PT shouldn't be part of it because, well, you know.).
3. And if the squadron has slacked/underperformed in a category, they should be punished.
Can we agree on that?

What punishment?  If there is a teachable moment, teach.  What do you think of as punishment, get too dictatorial you will find yourself speaking to an empty room.

[nmkaufman0]

A lot of your ideas are good, but for the plan to work, entire squadrons would have to be inspected.

Note: I'm not in command of anything, and I haven't been a Cadet for very long, so I don't know if they already do this, but I have never seen any officers, SM's or Cadets, from Group, Wing, or Region command and staff at my squadron's meetings unless they were there to give a lecture about ES, ICUT, ORM, etc.

[nmkaufman0]

I apologize. This was thrown together at the last minute. I was a bit short on time, and really didn't look into most of that. Let me really say this:
1. We should really, for STARTERS. Really improve uniform inspections, and tighten our grip on that field. Some cadets I know have really awful uniforms, not following CAP 39-1. As in way off, and there should really be stricter policies on that.
2. Establish an annual squadron test on most fields, (Drill, SAR, Aerospace, Leadership, etc. PT shouldn't be part of it because, well, you know.).
3. And if the squadron has slacked/underperformed in a category, they should be punished.
Can we agree on that?

1: The 39-1 is being reviewed, that idea doesn't work until it is updated.
2: PT exists to make sure that CAP members are physically fit. If members must be tested in PT to advance, why not Squadrons?
3: What form of punishment? If it's too drastic, you'll punish members who didn't do anything wrong. If it's too weak, nobody will pay a lot of attention to it.

[SamFranklin]

Welcome, Cadet Kaufman.

Here's something you might think about:  what does "punishment" try to do? One of the things you'll learn through the cadet leadership books is that technically speaking, punishment only gets someone to stop doing something bad. It doesn't get someone to start doing something good.

I like what you said about needing to find a way to get your point across, to get the person's attention, without being too harsh as to turn them off entirely.

Anyway, welcome to CAP. Best wishes to you.