Changing Civil Air Patrol to U.S. Civil Air Patrol

[Hawk200]

I wonder if NHQ would buy into a squadron named the Homer J. Simpson Memorial Cadet Squadron, if there were a letter signed by "Marge Simpson" in the charter application packet giving permission to use the name?

I'll give you ten bucks if you actually try it.....

[lordmonar]

...but where the heck is the Homer J. Simpson Air Power Supreme Super Composite Squadron.

Springfield

Yes...but what Wing?

I would venture to say it is in the DOHWG 

[Nelson]Ha Ha[/Nelson]

[lordmonar]

I wonder if NHQ would buy into a squadron named the Homer J. Simpson Memorial Cadet Squadron, if there were a letter signed by "Marge Simpson" in the charter application packet giving permission to use the name?

No....it would have too many Simpson in it...someone might notice......Now if were signed Montgomery Burns........

[SarDragon]

For me, and those like me, with a little bit different mental wiring, even a unit name like "Homer J. Simpson Memorial Cadet Squadron" is easier to associate with a specific location than some seemingly random number. This has nothing to do with CAP-ness, or Air Force-ness, this is purely a mental thing.

YMMV.

[DNall]

And that's understandable, but you're assuming the objective of unit names has something to do with you knowing where they're geographically from. When in fact the policy proposed here, which is really mostly about wings, is meant to wash away geographic refrences so we all blur into one & don't know or care where you're from.

[SarDragon]

And I think that's a bad thing, personally. Location going to come out in conversation, eventually, but it's a lot easier when you have some idea ahead of time. Interaction has different boundaries, depending on the area og the country you are in. Talkng to Texans is very different from talking to Maineiacs. Discussions are facilitated, based on the level of prior knowledge.

I think the geographical references are a part of our organizational culture that we shouldn't get rid of. And I certainly don't like the blurring you spoke of.

Again, YMMV.

[ZigZag911]

I wonder if NHQ would buy into a squadron named the Homer J. Simpson Memorial Cadet Squadron, if there were a letter signed by "Marge Simpson" in the charter application packet giving permission to use the name?

No....it would have too many Simpson in it...someone might notice......Now if were signed Montgomery Burns........

Or even Ned Flanders.....

[afgeo4]

SarDragon, to some degree this location "tagging" allows for assumptions and we all know where those lead to. You're assuming that Texans are different to speak to than people from Maine and that's your first problem. Individuals are different, yes. Perhaps even a general outlook across the geographical regions may be different, sure, but when you assume that a certain member will think a certain way or speak a certain way before you meet him/her, well... you're on your way to stupidland. I don't even want to mention what happens among cadets when they see cadets from another wing. Suddenly wild and unsubstantiated stereotypes are flying like mortar shells without any concern where on or whom they land. But... they're cadets and we aren't. We're examples of what to do, not of what not to do.  Well... we try to be.

Let's all start acting and thinking like CAP members and then when dealing with CAP affairs we won't have to worry about differences because we'll all be on the same page.

I think renaming the wings (and regions) is a step in that right direction.

[RogueLeader]

I would go for changing the squadron names to their locations.  It is easy to know where the San Diego Sr Squadron but where the heck is the Homer J. Simpson Air Power Supreme Super Composite Squdron.

With the squadron able to name themselve after just about anything they want to....numbers are just as acceptable.

I dunno, I would prefer the Luke Skywalker Senior Squadron or perhaps the Wedge Antilles Composite Squadron, maybe the Jacen and Jaina Solo Cadet Squadron.

[DrJbdm]

I just don't understand how people do not see how unprofessional those other names we all use are. 360th Comp Sq, 42nd CAP Wg sounds much more professional and much more Military. 

Much more military yes.  Much more professional?  Only to those who think CAP should do everything like the military.  To the majority of the civilian public names don't sound any less professional than numbers.
Mike

 Perhaps, But from what I see, most people in the civilian public associate numbers as being more professional/legitimate then names when referring to a military type outfit.  CAP IS a military type unit. We are the U.S. Air Force Aux, not the Boy Scout Aux-SAR division. Names like the Homar J Simpson Composite squadron would be a huge embarrassment to CAP and  HUGE step back in legitimacy. Yes, I know the Homar J. Simpson Squadron is a joke, but there are many squadrons across the country that have names almost as embarrassing.

 Identifying units and wings Thu numbers, not only helps to reinforce the one CAP mentality that we so desperately need, it also helps to add a legitimacy to us because it does make us a little more military to the general public, and our legitimacy/compatency is derived directly (atleast in the minds of the civilian public) from the fact of our being the U.S. Air Force Aux. As DNall pointed out, people make an assumption - rather right or wrong - about our abilities because they do assume that we are trained by the Air Force to military standards for such missions. We need to reinforce that perception. in this world, Perception is reality.

[MIKE]

I'd vote for assigned numbering as the official unit designation...  123rd CDT SQ  Possibly have a geographical specific name associated with the unit which was also assigned, but not part of the official designation.  IIRC the UK ATC does something similar.

What does this have to do with U.S Civil Air Patrol again?

[lordmonar]

Well since we have drifted of the CAP vs USCAP and started talking about nameing

Why not just get rid of cadet/composite/sr squadorn designators as well?

We can just go with XX CAP SQ (ARWG) and be done with it.

[Monty]

No....it would have too many Simpson in it...someone might notice......Now if were signed Montgomery Burns........

A *Monty* Burns squadron would be excellent, Smithers!

[DrJbdm]

Well, getting back on topic. I guess it's almost a done deal. Unless the blue suited overlords decree otherwise, we'll be slowly adding new nametapes that read: U.S. Civil Air Patrol

 Some will like it, others will hate it, but a larger majority will have no real opinion either way. We can argue about it here and bring up reasons why we like it/dislike it but it's really in the hands of the AF now.
 
  My opinion is that it all boils down to one thing: most of those who hate the idea, hate it for only one reason; they don't want to have to buy new nametapes. I'm sure if NHQ was giving the nametapes out for free, no one would have a real big complaint.

 I'm sure if the AF came out tomorrow and said "blue AF slides where now authorized on the blue uniform, the grey slides are now obsolete." we would have a good amount of people here complain about how that's horrible because now they have to buy something new. regardless of the fact of rather it's good for CAP or not.

That's how I read this whole discussion.  You know something I have observed? it's true about us men, we simply don't like change. we have a hard time adapting to it. Women have a little easier time with it, or so it seems with the women in my life.

[lordmonar]

No....it would have too many Simpson in it...someone might notice......Now if were signed Montgomery Burns........

A *Monty* Burns squadron would be excellent, Smithers!

You owe the USAF one key board!

[LtCol White]

Well, getting back on topic. I guess it's almost a done deal. Unless the blue suited overlords decree otherwise, we'll be slowly adding new nametapes that read: U.S. Civil Air Patrol

 Some will like it, others will hate it, but a larger majority will have no real opinion either way. We can argue about it here and bring up reasons why we like it/dislike it but it's really in the hands of the AF now.
 
  My opinion is that it all boils down to one thing: most of those who hate the idea, hate it for only one reason; they don't want to have to buy new nametapes. I'm sure if NHQ was giving the nametapes out for free, no one would have a real big complaint.

 I'm sure if the AF came out tomorrow and said "blue AF slides where now authorized on the blue uniform, the grey slides are now obsolete." we would have a good amount of people here complain about how that's horrible because now they have to buy something new. regardless of the fact of rather it's good for CAP or not.

That's how I read this whole discussion.  You know something I have observed? it's true about us men, we simply don't like change. we have a hard time adapting to it. Women have a little easier time with it, or so it seems with the women in my life.

And you will have to change not only the CAP tape but also your name. They'll prob have to change the font of the letters to fit it and even if they don't, your old name tape will be faded as the new one will not.

[RiverAux]

Some will like it, others will hate it, but a larger majority will have no real opinion either way.

Actually, a VERY strong majority don't like the idea according to our poll here.  Is it representative of CAP?  Hard to say, but most of those here probably tend to have stronger feelings about CAP issues than others, so I suspect the Unfavorable percentage would drop a bit if a true scientific poll were taken.  

most of those who hate the idea, hate it for only one reason; they don't want to have to buy new nametapes.

I think most people don't like it because it isn't actually the name of our organization.  Many people have expressed a willingness to use USAF Aux or some variation of that if it were authorized for us, so I don't think changing the tapes itself is the issue.  

[SarDragon]

SarDragon, to some degree this location "tagging" allows for assumptions and we all know where those lead to. You're assuming that Texans are different to speak to than people from Maine and that's your first problem.

Texans are different to speak to than people from Maine! I would start a conversation with someone from Maine differently than with someone from Texas. Their cultures are different. Their attitudes about strangers are different.

I have lived in three of the four corners of the country as an adult, and have also spent some time in the "interior" during my travels. Interpersonal relations are greatly affected by first impressions, and not having good up front "intel" can handicap the ability to make that good first impression.

Individuals are different, yes. Perhaps even a general outlook across the geographical regions may be different, sure, but when you assume that a certain member will think a certain way or speak a certain way before you meet him/her, well... you're on your way to stupidland.

I'm not making assumptions. I have practical experience on some of the differences, and use that experience when meeting people.

I don't even want to mention what happens among cadets when they see cadets from another wing. Suddenly wild and unsubstantiated stereotypes are flying like mortar shells without any concern where on or whom they land. But... they're cadets and we aren't. We're examples of what to do, not of what not to do.  Well... we try to be.

I agree on the cadet thing. WIWAC, the cadets in my wing had a very bad attitude about the members of an adjacent wing, based on what was really a small percentage of the membership.

It looks like we'll just agree to disagree on this one.

[afgeo4]

I believe that the US in the US Civil Air Patrol states that CAP is an agency of the United States government. Are we? Can a corporation (for profit or non) be an agency of the government? Even if the government doesn't own it? Who does own the CAP? Are there other examples of such organizations in the US?

The US Army and the US Secret service are a part of the US (United States) government and as such, wear the designators. Are we or are we a civillian non-profit corporation?

[lordmonar]

Some will like it, others will hate it, but a larger majority will have no real opinion either way.

Actually, a VERY strong majority don't like the idea according to our poll here.  Is it representative of CAP?  Hard to say, but most of those here probably tend to have stronger feelings about CAP issues than others, so I suspect the Unfavorable percentage would drop a bit if a true scientific poll were taken.  

most of those who hate the idea, hate it for only one reason; they don't want to have to buy new nametapes.

I think most people don't like it because it isn't actually the name of our organization.  Many people have expressed a willingness to use USAF Aux or some variation of that if it were authorized for us, so I don't think changing the tapes itself is the issue.  

Seeing as how the majority of the rank and file CAP membership do not even know about it, I don't think anyone can conclusivly say what the "majority" thinks about it.

I personally have not responded to the on-line poll at all.

To me....I could care less.  It means nothing one way or the other....except that I will have get new tapes at some point.  Does it effect the mission?  Does it affect how other agencies view us?  Does it get me SLS any faster?

I think the real reason most people are upset is that it is an arbitrary change and no one has really explained the reasoning behind it.  Hence the "Vanguard Conspircy" theorists.