Changing Civil Air Patrol to U.S. Civil Air Patrol

[Hammer]

I would go for changing the squadron names to their locations.  It is easy to know where the San Diego Sr Squadron but where the heck is the Homer J. Simpson Air Power Supreme Super Composite Squdron.

With the squadron able to name themselve after just about anything they want to....numbers are just as acceptable.

Good point.

[afgeo4]

According to TP, all the Corporate CAP name tapes and tags will be changed to say "US Civil Air Patrol" according to his speech at the COWG Conf. this morning.

This is to include the blue and brushed silver nameplates on the corporate blues and service coat. The nameplates on the AF uniforms will not change.

That being said, I don't recall the nameplates being mentioned in the NB meeting, so I don't know how accurate that portion really is.

Hmm... Another reason not to buy TPUs (I'm gonna need more paper). Something tells me Gen Pineda's degree isn't in marketing.

[DNall]

Man... son if AF approves thi9s then I hav to go out & replace all my nameplates too, on top of my BDU tapes? You've got to be kidding me!!! Do you know how much that costs? Have they even remotely thought about that. I'm seriously getting pissed about how freakin incompetent people behave in this organization. I'd sure like to lend the benefit of the doubt, but this is beyond stupid.

[afgeo4]

Man... son if AF approves thi9s then I hav to go out & replace all my nameplates too, on top of my BDU tapes? You've got to be kidding me!!! Do you know how much that costs? Have they even remotely thought about that. I'm seriously getting pissed about how freakin incompetent people behave in this organization. I'd sure like to lend the benefit of the doubt, but this is beyond stupid.

From my understanding, the only nameplates affected will be the TPU/Corporate ones that currently say Civil Air Patrol on them. The USAF style nameplates will stay as is.

[DNall]

I didn't see anything about nameplates, only the tapes for BBDU/BDU voted on at NB. I'd be pissed if I just within the last year ordered those nameplates & now you're telling me they're going to change. My impression from the statement though is that this would go down like the command patch - where the change was ordered on the corp version ahead of AF approval on the AF-style. So the logical aussumption is that the AF-style nameplates will also be changed if/when AF grants permission. Far as that goes, I can't see them refusing, even if they don't like it, cause it doesn't confuse us as AF officers or anything like that.

[RiverAux]

Not necessarily.  The stated justification for adding the "US" was to distinguish us from other Civil Air Patrols around the world.  The nameplate on the AF shirt already says "United States Air Force Auxiliary" so no need to change it. 

[DNall]

You're assuming the horribly weak stated justification is the real reasoning behind the change, which has not generally been the case with any change proposed by the current Nat/CC as borne out after the fact.

[Psicorp]

Not necessarily.  The stated justification for adding the "US" was to distinguish us from other Civil Air Patrols around the world.  The nameplate on the AF shirt already says "United States Air Force Auxiliary" so no need to change it. 

Again, the American Flag on our shoulders didn't do that?

[RiverAux]

Psicorp-you're mixing uniforms.  My post was in regards to the nameplate worn with the blue shirt.  No American flag on the blue shirt. 

[Psicorp]

Psicorp-you're mixing uniforms.  My post was in regards to the nameplate worn with the blue shirt.  No American flag on the blue shirt. 

I understand that...but the original NB vote to change it on the B/BDUs still doesn't make sense to me. I really wish NHQ would share their vision, but we've been through that.    As far as the Corporate uniforms go, they're Corporate...they can be whatever the Corporation wants them to be, I have no problem with it.

[Lancer]

Point of interest...

Vanguard is here in Lansing at the Michigan Wing Conference. They had the 'U.S. Civil Air Patrol' nametapes on the sign board, no 'Civil Air Patrol' tapes. had aprox. 50 tapes.

Gone in a matter of a couple hours.

[SAR-EMT1]

Point of interest...

Vanguard is here in Lansing at the Michigan Wing Conference. They had the 'U.S. Civil Air Patrol' nametapes on the sign board, no 'Civil Air Patrol' tapes. had aprox. 50 tapes.

Gone in a matter of a couple hours.

Thats not good.. but then.. at the last SLS I was at: folks who MET the standards for blues still FLOCKED to the table to buy the TPU so they could wear "REALAF" epulets.... sheesh

[afgeo4]

Not necessarily.  The stated justification for adding the "US" was to distinguish us from other Civil Air Patrols around the world.  The nameplate on the AF shirt already says "United States Air Force Auxiliary" so no need to change it. 

Again, the American Flag on our shoulders didn't do that?

US Army uniforms have to have a flag on them and I haven't noticed and ARMY branch tapes on anyone. They're still using U.S. Army.

[afgeo4]

Point of interest...

Vanguard is here in Lansing at the Michigan Wing Conference. They had the 'U.S. Civil Air Patrol' nametapes on the sign board, no 'Civil Air Patrol' tapes. had aprox. 50 tapes.

Gone in a matter of a couple hours.

hmm... someone's trying to build those regional training centers real hard.

[DNall]

US Army uniforms have to have a flag on them and I haven't noticed and ARMY branch tapes on anyone. They're still using U.S. Army.

The overseas flag is worn in war zones where other nations are present in order to make it easy to ID who you belong to. They wear the color version back here to show that symbolicly the whole Army is at war & they need to be thinking that way. The branch tape express the name of the organizaiton and will still be there after the GWOT is over & the flags come off.

CAP isn't at war & isn't in the army, so it shouldn't be following their uniform guidance. Also, our full name is not the US Civil Air Patrol. If you want it changed to that, ask congress to drop a quick amendment on the defense bill. If that's the way you want to spend your political capital then I'm sure they'd have no problem with it.

My issue with this is it's nothing gained in exchange for a significant cost spread out over the field - a couple hundred grand I beleive is the number we worked out. With the corp alt service dress you had a choice if you wanted to go out & buy that thing, but this change touches almost everyone, and that's bad leadership. When you hurt & frustrate your people for no gain, that's unacceptable leadership.

[mikeylikey1]

If it is really too much to drop a couple of bucks on the new tapes, get your squadron to pay for all of its members to purchase them and have them sewn on.  Do a fund raiser and quit the whining already! 

[JohnKachenmeister]

We've got something like 2 or 3 years to phase them in.  What's the rush?  As my BDU's get faded and I buy new ones, I'll put on the new tapes.  I'd have to buy new ones anyway at that point.

[DNall]

If it is really too much to drop a couple of bucks on the new tapes, get your squadron to pay for all of its members to purchase them and have them sewn on.  Do a fund raiser and quit the whining already! 

It's not that, I could pay for tapes for everyone in my wing (and it's a big wing) and not flinch much. That's not the point. It's a PITA that takes money away from my people that, granted is small individually, but adds up across the org. It would have been much better for the org to just bump dues up a couple bucks & use the money for something that serves a purpose (shh... don't want to give them any ideas). You should never make a change unless you can justify why it MUST be changed & show in black & white that the gain exceeds the cost in a significant & meaningful way. This does none of that, which makes it irresponsible.

[lordmonar]

t's a PITA that takes money away from my people that, granted is small individually, but adds up across the org.

Now that is a complete misrepresentation.  The phase in of this is long enough that none one has to go out and buy branch tapes just to switch out the ones on their uniform.  WHEN you get new BDUs or BBDUs you get then new branch tape...all new members get the new branch tape.  There is not additional costs to anyone.

The only's who may be out are any unit that has bought a stock of them.  And that is correct by just using up existing supplies as fast as possible.

It would have been much better for the org to just bump dues up a couple bucks & use the money for something that serves a purpose (shh... don't want to give them any ideas). You should never make a change unless you can justify why it MUST be changed & show in black & white that the gain exceeds the cost in a significant & meaningful way. This does none of that, which makes it irresponsible.

Let me just play devil's advocate here.....that MAY (please let me stress may) have been done.  But it was justified to the only people who count in this situation, the NB.  They don't have to justify any changes to the rank and file.  Granted good change management dictates that you get the rank and file to buy off on it so solve just this sort of belly aching....but it is not necessary and it is not irresponsible, just bad management.

[RiverAux]

WHEN you get new BDUs or BBDUs you get then new branch tape...all new members get the new branch tape.  There is not additional costs to anyone.

I don't know how many uniforms you go through, but I fully expect 2 of my 3 current sets of BDUs as well as the one on my field jacket to last several years beyond the deadline so I will have to buy new tapes for them.