Red Service Ribbon

[41839j]

OK, I am back for more punnishment.  My anniversary date of joining CAP is 26 July 2010.  That would indicate two years of service.  Am I now entitled to obtain and wear the red service ribbon?  I am ready now, so sock it you me!

[ßτε]

You would use CAPF 2a to request award of the Red Service Ribbon. Per CAPR 39-3, the approving authority is the wing commander, but may be delegated to a lower echelon. See your wings supplement to CAPR 39-3 to see if this has been done. Submit to your squadron commander to initiate the approval process.

[PHall]

Okay, first things first. Talk to your squadron commander and remind them that you now have two years service and are entitled to the Red Service Ribbon.
Your Squadron Commander has to approve the CAP Form 2a, so having them "in the loop" from the beginning should keep them happy.

[jeders]

Okay, first things first...

...congratulations on 2 years.

Next, submit a form 2a to your squadron commander for his/her approval.

[Shotgun]

And just a reminder . . .

It is primarily the responsibility of the individual member to do the paperwork for there activity awards and service ribbons. Don't wait for such a ribbon to be handed to you. (Of course any Personnel Officer worth his salt will keep on top of the issue.)


CAPR 39-3 AWARD OF CAP MEDALS, RIBBONS, AND CERTIFICATES 7 February 2012 

19. Administration Procedures for Award of Activity and Service Ribbons. The individual member is responsible for preparing and submitting to the unit commander CAP Form 2a, Request for and Approval of Personnel Actions, when the requirements for an activity or service ribbon have been completed. The CAP Form 2a is then forwarded by the unit commander to the appropriate approving authority. (If the unit commander has been delegated approving authority by the wing commander as outlined in paragraph 18b, the unit commander simply approves the form and returns it to the recipient.)

[spacecommand]

In my Wing, the authority to award the red service ribbon is delegated to the Squadron Commander.  When I reached my 2 year mark, I filled out the CAPF 2a and brought it with me to the next meeting and he signed it on the spot.  (I had two copies signed, one went into my squadron record, the other for my personal records).

[Garibaldi]

Yeah, I figured out I had 19 years service and sent in my 2a for another bronze clasp. Dummy me, I should have waited another 6 months for my 20 year pin...

[Eclipse]

Meh - RSR is one of the self-actualizing ribbons.  No approval necessary.

This date + that date = move on.

The only reason a 2a should be necessary is if there is a break in service that needs to be documented.

[PHall]

Meh - RSR is one of the self-actualizing ribbons.  No approval necessary.

This date + that date = move on.

The only reason a 2a should be necessary is if there is a break in service that needs to be documented.

No, a Form 2a or a PA is needed to document the award. The approved 2a or PA is the authority for you to wear the award.

[Eclipse]

No, a Form 2a or a PA is needed to document the award. The approved 2a or PA is the authority for you to wear the award.

Disagree - the calendar is the authority for you to wear the award.  Anything already documented in eServices should
not be "re-approved" by a lower authority "just because".

Old road, but what the heck...when NHQ documents something in eServices, they are already the highest authority and
the dec has already been approved.  Encampments, NCSA, NESA, RSR, level badges, etc.

Otherwise, by inference, if a commander has to approve the wear, then there is a lane for him to disapprove the wear,
and that is outside his scope of authority for a national award already recorded as completed.

[Garibaldi]

No, a Form 2a or a PA is needed to document the award. The approved 2a or PA is the authority for you to wear the award.

Disagree - the calendar is the authority for you to wear the award.  Anything already documented in eServices should
not be "re-approved" by a lower authority "just because".

Old road, but what the heck...when NHQ documents something in eServices, they are already the highest authority and
the dec has already been approved.  Encampments, NCSA, NESA, RSR, level badges, etc.

Otherwise, by inference, if a commander has to approve the wear, then there is a lane for him to disapprove the wear,
and that is outside his scope of authority for a national award already recorded as completed.

Mah qwershtun...if a 2a isn't needed, then why is there a category for it on the form?

[starshippe]

   capr 39-3, section f, para 19 appears to agree with phall.

bill

   modified... looks like the service ribbon does not get any extra clasps at 19 years anyway. it is shown as going from 3 bronze clasps at 15 years to a "20" pin at 20 years.

[Eclipse]

Mah qwershtun...if a 2a isn't needed, then why is there a category for it on the form?

Because there are some circumstances where substantiation is necessary, and also because
the paper systems predate the electronic ones and have not been caught up. 

For years there were unit CC's that used to push 2a's for flight wings and GT badges even though those weren't even on the forms.

There's practical reality and there's unnecessary paperwork.  Things already substantiated, or approved at higher HQ, do not need to
be re-approved at a lower level.

If you or your CC don't agree, draft a 2A.  But this is not some thing I would or ever did require in cases of self-actualizing decorations.

When else?  Yeager?  No, the cert on the wall says I already earned it.  Levels I-II-II-IV?  Nope, same thing.  If you've already
got a piece of paper in your hand that provides an award, why would you need to re-approve it?

[Garibaldi]

   capr 39-3, section f, para 19 appears to agree with phall.

bill

   modified... looks like the service ribbon does not get any extra clasps at 19 years anyway. it is shown as going from 3 bronze clasps at 15 years to a "20" pin at 20 years.

I am aware. I put in for 15 years.

[Private Investigator]

No, a Form 2a or a PA is needed to document the award. The approved 2a or PA is the authority for you to wear the award.

Disagree - the calendar is the authority for you to wear the award.  Anything already documented in eServices should
not be "re-approved" by a lower authority "just because".

Where in eServices does it say I have a Red Service Ribbon?

[Eclipse]

Where in eServices does it say I have a Red Service Ribbon?

Join date minus today's date.  For the vast majority, that is an unbroken chain.

When it's not, then you need a 2a to substantiate whatever is not recorded properly.

[ColonelJack]

Where in eServices does it say I have a Red Service Ribbon?

Join date minus today's date.  For the vast majority, that is an unbroken chain.

When it's not, then you need a 2a to substantiate whatever is not recorded properly.

Correct-a-mundo.  I had 17 years before retiring; I rejoined 3 years ago.  I put in a 2a for my 20-year clasp this month.

Jack

[Private Investigator]

Where in eServices does it say I have a Red Service Ribbon?

Join date minus today's date.  For the vast majority, that is an unbroken chain.

When it's not, then you need a 2a to substantiate whatever is not recorded properly.

Correct-a-mundo.  I had 17 years before retiring; I rejoined 3 years ago.  I put in a 2a for my 20-year clasp this month.

Jack

That was from the time we had 14 year retirements? eServices is not always correct. I know a former Region Commander his record shows a start date of 1975 but he had service in the 1940s and 1950s prior.

I also know some "30" year members that ... well I guess the majority is for the 'honor' system. So I guess whatever then, I still like to see a 2a.

[SarDragon]

I have broken service. When I resumed participation after 10 years of pay, no play, my commander suggested that I get my record up to date. I dug out all the paperwork I could find at the time to document my years of membership, not being able to exactly recall when and how long the break was.

As I found more paperwork, I would submit another 2a to update my Red Service ribbon. My most recent submission got things all squared away, and the next will be a regular 5-year update, for 45 years.

My next task is to get all this documentation to NHQ in time for my 50 year membership.

[Flying Pig]

When I was a CC I used to remind members that I too have a job, a wife, 3 kids and limited brain power.  I did all I could to be aware of my members and who they were. But if you rate something, or think you rate something, please fill out the paperwork, bring me the supporting documents and ASK me to do it.  I know several members who would stew in the corner because they thought there was going to be some surprise medal awarding ceremony.  We'll do a ceremony.......  cool..... but I didnt have time to track everyones lives!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^^At the end of this month, I will be eligible for promotion to Major.  I've got my Grover Loening, and all the rest of my ducks in a row.

It's been a long time coming, because I was first promoted to Captain in 1997.  After that I had breaks in service but was able to get my grade back...now it's been three years unbroken as a Captain.

My dilemma is:

First, I believe my commander to be just as human as FP admits to in that he probably doesn't have time to remember just when everyone is up for promotion.

Second, a small part of me is saying that finally, I've endured and run the race, and it's time.

Third, a larger part of me suffers from the Reg Barclay/tall poppy syndrome that says it would be egotistical and presumptive to remind my CC of this, and I know that in CAP (as in life in general), I'm not "due" anything, the world doesn't owe me anything, etc.

[Garibaldi]

^^^At the end of this month, I will be eligible for promotion to Major.  I've got my Grover Loening, and all the rest of my ducks in a row.

It's been a long time coming, because I was first promoted to Captain in 1997.  After that I had breaks in service but was able to get my grade back...now it's been three years unbroken as a Captain.

My dilemma is:

First, I believe my commander to be just as human as FP admits to in that he probably doesn't have time to remember just when everyone is up for promotion.

Second, a small part of me is saying that finally, I've endured and run the race, and it's time.

Third, a larger part of me suffers from the Reg Barclay/tall poppy syndrome that says it would be egotistical and presumptive to remind my CC of this, and I know that in CAP (as in life in general), I'm not "due" anything, the world doesn't owe me anything, etc.

Yes.
Yes.
No. You have every right to inform your CC and personnel officer that you are due a promotion. If you don't want it, that's one thing, but you obviously do. I hounded my CC and DP when I got back in to get my promotion to Major approved, but it took time and having to take Level 1 again to do so. Channels must be followed and all that. Tell your personnel officer and the Professional Development officer and they'll get it started for you.

[Flying Pig]

As a commander, help me help you

[RiverAux]

Hmm, if something is documented somewhere in an NHQ computer system, then a 2a isn't necessary.  So, if I'm in WMIRs as being on a mission that is a presidentially-declared disaster, then no 2a is necessary for the disaster relief ribbon with v?  Interesting take on the regs there Eclipse. 

[Eclipse]

Hmm, if something is documented somewhere in an NHQ computer system, then a 2a isn't necessary.  So, if I'm in WMIRs as being on a mission that is a presidentially-declared disaster, then no 2a is necessary for the disaster relief ribbon with v?  Interesting take on the regs there Eclipse.

Unrelated systems, not the same discussion - we're talking about personnel records not operational mission tracking.

WMIRS is not the CAP personnel records system, that's eServices, I don't even think there is any connectivity
between them beyond the sign-in tokens.  In fact, WMIRS' primary use is tracking mission expenses. not operations, and the focus
is on aircrews and ground teams.  Base staffers and personnel not assigned as sortie leaders are never mentioned or entered anywhere.

It is not only possible, but likely, that unless you are getting a 108-reimbursiment, you could spend a week on a mission, be very successful, and
your name will not be mentioned anywhere except for the scanned documents in the mission folder.

Further, a big weakness in our personnel system is that it doesn't track a significant number of awards, including the DR-V ribbon mentioned above,
therefore, yes, you'd need a 2a for that decoration.  A lot of times the POTUS-declaration is made after we leave and the mission is closed.

My oft-mentioned point is that decorations which are self-actualizing such as a service ribbon, or approved at a higher level, such an encampment, need not be "re-approved" via a 2a by a lower echelon that as no authority over the decoration in question.

A unit CC, has no authority in regards to most of the ribbons on the 2a as they are approved via higher echelons or other chains. In some cases the 2a could / is used by those other authorities to approve the ribbon, but then you don't need to have your commander "reapprove" it.

Again for, those just tuning it - the requirement to "approve" something, includes the potential to "deny" something by the same office.
A unit CC has no authority to deny a member an encampment ribbon, service ribbon, or Crossfield award which has been already been vetted via other means.

Of the 16 decs called out by the Form 2a, 10 are either self-actualizing or approved via other means by either higher HQ or another authority:

Approved higher then the unit, generally via a PA:
     Command Service Ribbon
     National Cadet Competition Ribbon
     National Color Guard Ribbon
     Cadet Advisory Council Ribbon


Self-actualizing via eservices (meaning approed by other authority and tracked by NHQ):
     Encampment Ribbon
     Red Service Ribbon - (based on the calendar except for a break in service).
     Cadet Special Activities Ribbon
     IACE Ribbon


Other situations:
     A. Scott Crossfield Award - self actualizing via the certificate
     "Find" Ribbon - a "push" - technically this is awarded by the IC of the respective mission.


Needs a 2a for substantiation documents and is not tracked in eServices.
     Counter drug Ribbon
     Air Search and Rescue Ribbon
     Cadet Community Service Ribbon
     Recruiter Ribbon
     Disaster Relief Ribbon
     Cadet Orientation Pilot Ribbon

[RiverAux]

Thats not a bad system...its just not the one we have. 

[spacecommand]

In cases like the DR-V.  A PA "Personnel Authorization" from the Wing which listed all members who signed in and were recorded by on-scene commanders as participants during a  mission also works in lieu of a 2a as well.  As discussed in another thread, issuing a mass PA is probably better than sending out dozens of individual 2a's for such a large mission.