Cadet and Joining Air National Guard

[MikeS]

Yeah I'm pretty sure I got a good 6-10 months of On the Job Training after tech schooling.  We will see if I actually like the military life haha

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I wasn't ATC, but I considered it when I was in the ANG.  I seem to remember my recruiter telling me that Tech School was something like a year long...wouldn't that count as extended active duty, even though it's AcDuTra?

More hopefully helpful hints about BMT:

Do NOT show up wearing an Air Force tee shirt.  The MTI's will EAT you: "WHY ARE YOU WEARING A SHIRT WITH THE NAME OF MY AIR FORCE ON IT?!"

If your MTI asks if you like to bowl, do NOT answer in the affirmative...that's a way to get you sucked into being "latrine queen."

If you're going in as E-3, you'll be paid as E-3 but you won't wear your stripes until graduation...but do not tell anyone (especially your MTI) that you "already are" an E-3.  You are an Airman Basic and you won't win any brownie points.

Some MTI's have a cob up their afterburner about ANG/AFRES and will give them all the crap details, and ride you until graduation that you're not "really in MY Air Force."  Mine did, despite about a 1/4 of my flight being Guard/Reserve.

Pack light.  Do not take any books other than religious literature (Bible, Qu'ran, Book Of Mormon).  That is the only literature the MTI's cannot take from you and most don't make cracks about it during "shakedown."

Limit the pictures you take...nothing of your significant other in ultra-sexy pose.  I heard everything during "shakedown" from "she looks like a cheap hooker!" to "she's beautiful; what the hell does she see in a POS like you?"

Of course, this is the way it was many moons ago...no doubt some things have changed.

[Майор Хаткевич]

So, twice now I've tried to find that cadet who was getting his Spaatz award and had combat badges...

I've failed.

I remember the details of something like a 4 month Afghanistan deployment that was NOT extended active duty, etc etc.

I do believe we discussed it on this forum as well.

Still can't find it though...

[Stonewall]

I thought we discussed here, too.  Maybe it was CadetStuff?  I swear it was from 2006 because I still lived in DC, but maybe I've got my dates wrong.  Ultimately, however, I think we determined all was legit and maybe he wore his CAP with cadet insignia to receive his Spaatz. 

That's just me spitballin' though.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I think it was after I was already in college so I was thinking 2008-2009.

[Eclipse]

I thought we discussed here, too.  Maybe it was CadetStuff?  I swear it was from 2006 because I still lived in DC, but maybe I've got my dates wrong.  Ultimately, however, I think we determined all was legit and maybe he wore his CAP with cadet insignia to receive his Spaatz. 

That's just me spitballin' though.

I think it was in one of the CS "uniform threads", and I'm pretty sure your memory is correct that he wore is cadet uniform one last time to receive his Spaatz.

Bottom line the regs are clear - cadets become "not cadets" automatically based on several criteria including Active Duty Status.  Changing the status formally is an administrative process irregardless of their actual status.  Any CC who is aware of a criteria taking place who does not act to make the change is violating the regs and not helping anyone, but is potentially putting everyone at risk if that member comes back from the thing that made them "not a cadet" and does something "bad", or even gets hurt.

Membership status is a legal situation which potentially affords everyone both protection and CYA.  "Not a cadet" doesn't not automatically mean "senior" (or anything else), it simply means "not a cadet", and we don't allow anyone who's official status is "not a cadet" to participate at all.

[lordmonar]

I remember it too.....there was a discussion about it....and IIRC there were pictures.

[Stonewall]

I remember it too.....there was a discussion about it....and IIRC there were pictures.

There were pictures for sure, showing CAP C/Col wearing CIB and Airborne Wings.  I remember a SM in the pic along with a congratulations cake.

[lordmonar]

I have never understood the NG exeception to the joining the military rule.

I can understand those guys who join in the NG...and do their drill and stuff BEFORE they go to BMTS....and I can understand Delayed enlisment.....but if being in the military AD is makes you ineligible for being a cadet.....how is the NG any different?  They go to the same basic, same tech schools.

Then you add the confusion of what "extened active duty means"......Go to combat for four months....oh...that's not EAD so your good.....but being a wrench turner on some state side base right after tech school....no your AD your done.

[Eclipse]

Perhaps it is a holdover from a time when we leaned less on the Guard for international combat?

To me it should be either "join up" and you're done as a cadet, or, at a minimum, "complete basic and you're done as a cadet" - once you've been through
BMT, you're pretty much on a different level in terms of the cadet experience.

[MSG Mac]

Active Duty for Training is any period that a member of the Reserve/NG spends learning his or her MOS/AFMC/NEC. It also includes Leadership schools from Basic courses all the way up to AWC and beyond.

Extended Active Duty is any period you are mobilized either as an individual or as a unit, to augment the Active Duty Forces, or just plain enlist for active duty.

Each of these statuses are explained in the orders as in " Ordered to Active Duty for Training" or in my case "You are relieved from your reserve assignment and ordered to extended active duty pursuant to Emergency Presidential Order dated 14 Sept 2001".

[lordmonar]

And yet....a cadet was deployed for combat operations with out being on EAD orders......that's the sticking point I am making.

I understand the legal status of a Guardsman at training and such.....I just wonder why a Cadet can be a Guardsman....but can't be on AD.

[Ned]

It is a bit of a holdover; from a more simple time when the DoD had fewer flavors of AD.  And many young people took advantage of "split option" programs that allowed them to do basic during the summer while going to high school or college.

The basic concept (pun intended) was that even cadets who had been to their service's basic training and returned to civilian / reserve life would benefit from our outstanding cadet program until they left for "real active duty" or aged out of CP.

Older CAP cadets are typically studying direct and indirect leadership and work as senior cadet NCOs and officers leading other cadets.  Typical basic trainees in all of our services typically intensely study "followership", so that continued CAP CP training is both complementary and helpful to the cadet.

As others have noted, the RC optempo is considerably higher today and most reservists - regardless of age - experience deployments early in their careers.  However, with the planned drawdowns and budget cuts we are likely to see Guard and Reserve optempos slowly return to the traditional level of "one weekend a month and two weeks in the summer" over the next several years.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

What about if a cadet somehow lands a slot as AGR or ART?

[MSG Mac]

What about if a cadet somehow lands a slot as AGR or ART?

He is still a member of the Guard or Reserve.Though he wears a uniform, it's considered a GS or equivalent job.

[PA Guy]

Aren't AGR slots considered AD, thus Active Guard Reserve?

[MSG Mac]

And yet....a cadet was deployed for combat operations with out being on EAD orders......that's the sticking point I am making.

I understand the legal status of a Guardsman at training and such.....I just wonder why a Cadet can be a Guardsman....but can't be on AD.

I am sure that it was either a matter of the cadet or the Commander
1 not informing National HQ
2 He completed the Spaatz requirements, prior to deployment and just wore the C/Col uniform for the presentation.
3. He illegally completed the Spaatz after deployment, which makes it fraudulent.

[Spaceman3750]

It would seem that the topic of Extended Active Duty is something that NHQ needs to clarify. If you Google the definition, you get different authoritative documents defining it in different ways in different contexts.

For example, US Code defines EAD for an officer as being on active duty status for more than 130 days and is used in the context of the definition of an Officer of the United States. In another document, a DoD policy defines extended active duty for reservists to mean whenever the "force accountability" passes from the reserve component to the active component, which would seem to imply any time you go AD for any reason. This use is in the context of pay and benefits.

I remember as a cadet hearing that 6 months was the magic number for deployments. Reservist or NG deployed < 6 months, not EAD. > 6 months and you turn into a pumpkin. I never had a reg cite and can't find it in any reg I think is relevant so it might have been a myth, has anyone else ever heard this?

Of course, NHQ could just go off of what it says on your orders (as someone else pointed out, "ordered to extended active duty" vs "ordered to active duty for training"), but otherwise they need to cook up some definition of their own because right now it's different depending on which source you ask.

Sorry if I repeated anyone's previous comments, I'm just regurgitating some light research.

[Eclipse]

Whatever the answer is, it's not based on any specific amount of time, it's a status thing, pure and simple.

The problem is that the status itself isn't pure and simple any more .

[Ned]

Of course, NHQ could just go off of what it says on your orders (as someone else pointed out, "ordered to extended active duty" vs "ordered to active duty for training"), but otherwise they need to cook up some definition of their own because right now it's different depending on which source you ask.

That's the issue in a nutshell.  NHQ should not be in the business of (re)defining terms that the military uses, especially when we are applying them to military duty.

So, yeah, NHQ pretty much goes off of what it says on the orders.

But in the big scheme of things, this is a pretty tiny issue, affecting far less than 1/10 of 1% of our cadets in any given year.  Even if it needed fixing, we have much higher priority things to fix.

Like, say the NRA badge issue.

Or the 39-1.

Or  . . . .