Dark Blue Uniforms

[JohnKachenmeister]

I just got my copy of "Air Force" magazine today.  I haven't had a chance to read it yet, (Except the very interesting article on General Lavelle and the "Unauthorized Bombings.") but...

There was a photo of two USAF ground crewmen walking away from an F-15, wearing:

1.  Dark blue fatigues, that looked like coveralls,

2.  With really bright squadron patches,

3.  And white-on-blue nametapes.

So, how does it feel to be in a cutting-edge, avant-garde organization taking the lead in making history in the fast-paced world of military fashions?  Personally, I'm feeling rather metro-sexual.  I think I'll go powder my nose.

[BillB]

Who gave the Air Force permission to wear a CAP corporate uniform?  Dark blue fatigues with blue name tapes. Tisk-tisk

[MIKE]

Personally, I'm feeling rather metro-sexual.  I think I'll go powder my nose.

[mikeylikey]

Watch for the policy (er...interim change memo) from NHQ telling us to ditch the BBDU.  They are too close to what the AF wears. 

[Hawk200]

I just got my copy of "Air Force" magazine today.  I haven't had a chance to read it yet, (Except the very interesting article on General Lavelle and the "Unauthorized Bombings.") but...

There was a photo of two USAF ground crewmen walking away from an F-15, wearing:

1.  Dark blue fatigues, that looked like coveralls,

2.  With really bright squadron patches,

3.  And white-on-blue nametapes.

So, how does it feel to be in a cutting-edge, avant-garde organization taking the lead in making history in the fast-paced world of military fashions?  Personally, I'm feeling rather metro-sexual.  I think I'll go powder my nose.

Sounds like the old blue fatigues that Transient Alert wore up to the early '90's. The tapes were the same as ours, and they wore full color flightsuit patches. They've been gone for at least ten, and maybe fifteen years. I vaguely remember the message that phased them out.

[JohnKachenmeister]

My mistake.

I'm back home now, instead of goofing off on the internet at work.  I re-checked the photo.

The ground crewmen are walking away from an F-22.

The picture could not, therefore, be from the 1990's.

"Civil Air Patrol... Setting the standards for Air Force fashions since 1941."

[lordmonar]

What you were looking at was what the USAF calls Transient Alert.

These guys are the Jack of all trades aircraft crew chief types.  They are assigned to an AFB and they take care of all the aircraft passing through the base, be they Navy, USAF or Army.  They have to be very knowledgeable on all aircraft types from all services.

The USAF has always (well for the last 30 years that I've know about them) let them wear special uniforms.  Blue fatigues and full color name tapes and patches.  I have also seen "Transient Alert" embroidered on their backs on some bases.

The USAF was in blue fatigues long before CAP started using them.

[flight dispatcher]

Here is the photo.

[Al Sayre]

Looks just like the blue coveralls we wore in the Navy...

[ddelaney103]

Oh, no - that can't be the Air Force.  As all the "military experts" on this board point out (over and over and over...) things like blue nametapes, full color patches and cartoon patches are "un-military" and "unprofessional."

This type of picture is just designed to warp our impressionable young Cadets into thinking that there may be more to the military than berets and subdued patches.

As M. Colbert would say, "You're helping the bears terrorists win!"

[Pylon]

We should recruit these guys into CAP!   

[Hawk200]

Oh, no - that can't be the Air Force.  As all the "military experts" on this board point out (over and over and over...) things like blue nametapes, full color patches and cartoon patches are "un-military" and "unprofessional."

The sarcasm falls flat when you consider the fact that those are blue coveralls, and not camouflage utilities. Full color patches look OK on clothing that color, looks like crap on camo.

[DNall]

Oh, no - that can't be the Air Force.  As all the "military experts" on this board point out (over and over and over...) things like blue nametapes, full color patches and cartoon patches are "un-military" and "unprofessional."

The sarcasm falls flat when you consider the fact that those are blue coveralls, and not camouflage utilities. Full color patches look OK on clothing that color, looks like crap on camo.

Exactly.

[Dragoon]

So blue BDUs are the way to go!   

[Hawk200]

So blue BDUs are the way to go!   

Might be. I'm thinking about a set myself. Don't have to worry about matching field jackets, or worrying about my Gore-Tex not being legal without a Vanguard product, not to mention it won't matter if I forget my hat.

The only downside to me is not being able to wear my military badges. I may get over it if I wear the BBDU regularly. It's just another set of clothes, right?

[DNall]

I don't like it personally, but that's not cause it looks bad. I'm just more of the popinion that we shoud have uniforms that are very military looking or very not, not somewhere in the middle that doesn't reinforce our identity.

[Hawk200]

I don't like it personally, but that's not cause it looks bad. I'm just more of the popinion that we shoud have uniforms that are very military looking or very not, not somewhere in the middle that doesn't reinforce our identity.

I agree we should look military, but I'm also considering the practicality of the Blue BDU. As far as corporates go, it would be the only one I would ever wear. I'd wear regular blues, or green flightsuit otherwise.

The BBDU is far easier. If I want to wear the black fleece the Army gave me, I can. If I want to wear an inexpensive raincoat or poncho when it rains, I can do that too. Or a cheap orange "coaches" jacket for knocking around the unit(Visibility and "style"  ). If I was so inclined, I could wear one of those bright orange parkas for missions (I'm sure someone would say I still need the vest).

[DNall]

I understand where you're coming from, and I specifically don't like those aspects of that combo. Really I think it looks fine, but it entices people that would otherwise wear an AF-style combo & big picture I think that doesn't serve to reinforce the identity. I feel the same way about the white/blue uniform. I understand they came at it from the other side & were looking at how to get the proportionally challenged into a more military looking uniform to increase the identity, but if it takes people out of a military uniform to do it then it ends up a wash at best.

Far as the aspects you mentioned though, I wish they'd tighten up the rules on this. Just cause it's a corporate alternative uniform doesn't mean it should be a free-for-all. The hat should be mandatory & the CG blue goretex should be the primary outerwear. I don't know if you could find the blue field jacket, at least not as a low cost alternative to goretex. Some reasonable & practical alternative to that would be fine. Just, if it's going to be a uniform then it ought to be treated like a uniform.

Besides being kinda practical, uniforms are supposed to be a PITA. Rienforces attention to detail on a daily basis & makes you remember you're wearing it & the sacrifice/obligation that comes with that gets pounded into you when you have to spend extra time making sure it's right & ready to go.

[Hawk200]

Far as the aspects you mentioned though, I wish they'd tighten up the rules on this. Just cause it's a corporate alternative uniform doesn't mean it should be a free-for-all. The hat should be mandatory & the CG blue goretex should be the primary outerwear. I don't know if you could find the blue field jacket, at least not as a low cost alternative to goretex. Some reasonable & practical alternative to that would be fine. Just, if it's going to be a uniform then it ought to be treated like a uniform.

Mandatory hat, I could go along with. Mandating the Gore-Tex, not so much. I do spend the money on uniforms, but it would be nice to have a break in some aspects. With blues, you have to wear either the Air Force windbreaker, or the Air Force trench coat. With BDU's, it has to be the camo field jacket. Right now the camo Gore-Tex isn't offically legal unless you have the fancy Vanguard rank sleeve.

Those items are kind of spendy, even used. The thing is, I can't really get used stuff locally at reasonable price or condition. The nearest surplus store is an hour and a half away, and most of their stuff is either crap, or stuff the military phased out twenty years ago.

Besides being kinda practical, uniforms are supposed to be a PITA. Rienforces attention to detail on a daily basis & makes you remember you're wearing it & the sacrifice/obligation that comes with that gets pounded into you when you have to spend extra time making sure it's right & ready to go.

I remember attention to detail quite well, and I certainly don't need to be in a military uniform to do it. There are people that have met me the first time on numerous occasions that asked what branch of the military I was in. They knew before I mentioned it. On a couple of occasions, it was my appearance. On others, it was my bearing.

I would blouse blue BDU pant legs the same way as cammie ones, I'd still iron it, and I would still shine my boots. If I wear any kind of jacket, it would be zipped, buttoned or snapped all the way. I would make a point of having my hat available (all though it would be nice to not to have to wear it). And maybe, by doing so, I can get my commander to wear his in the same manner. He's too large for the mil uniforms, but I bet by example I can get him to remember his military bearing.

If you maintain bearing, it won't matter if it's cammie.

[DNall]

Far as the aspects you mentioned though, I wish they'd tighten up the rules on this. Just cause it's a corporate alternative uniform doesn't mean it should be a free-for-all. The hat should be mandatory & the CG blue goretex should be the primary outerwear. I don't know if you could find the blue field jacket, at least not as a low cost alternative to goretex. Some reasonable & practical alternative to that would be fine. Just, if it's going to be a uniform then it ought to be treated like a uniform.

Mandatory hat, I could go along with. Mandating the Gore-Tex, not so much. I do spend the money on uniforms, but it would be nice to have a break in some aspects. With blues, you have to wear either the Air Force windbreaker, or the Air Force trench coat. With BDU's, it has to be the camo field jacket. Right now the camo Gore-Tex isn't offically legal unless you have the fancy Vanguard rank sleeve.

Those items are kind of spendy, even used. The thing is, I can't really get used stuff locally at reasonable price or condition. The nearest surplus store is an hour and a half away, and most of their stuff is either crap, or stuff the military phased out twenty years ago.

I didn't mean mandatory goretex, just not the red sweater vest. Goretex isn't mandatory w/ BDUs either. I was trying to explain the same rules as BDUs but w/ appropriate colored items. Hence CG-blue goretex & I'm open to an alternative to the field jacket cause I know you can't get one in blue for cheap. I'm even willing to let people wear the woodland outerwear over the blue, and would be happy if the blue goretex were just recommended. I just don't want to see stupidity prevail & hear how it's technically within the letter of the reg even though you look like a freakin glow in the dark clown. I'd just like some more fomalized, nothing beyond what BDUs are, rules is all. Nothing crazy.

Besides being kinda practical, uniforms are supposed to be a PITA. Rienforces attention to detail on a daily basis & makes you remember you're wearing it & the sacrifice/obligation that comes with that gets pounded into you when you have to spend extra time making sure it's right & ready to go.

I remember attention to detail quite well, and I certainly don't need to be in a military uniform to do it. There are people that have met me the first time on numerous occasions that asked what branch of the military I was in. They knew before I mentioned it. On a couple of occasions, it was my appearance. On others, it was my bearing.

I would blouse blue BDU pant legs the same way as cammie ones, I'd still iron it, and I would still shine my boots. If I wear any kind of jacket, it would be zipped, buttoned or snapped all the way. I would make a point of having my hat available (all though it would be nice to not to have to wear it). And maybe, by doing so, I can get my commander to wear his in the same manner. He's too large for the mil uniforms, but I bet by example I can get him to remember his military bearing.

If you maintain bearing, it won't matter if it's cammie.

I mean that's the purpose of uniforms in general & if you're going to have a para-military uniform versus civilian attire, then it should have rules around it that treat it just like the military uniform. I know full well you understand that, and have complete faith that you would wear it looking good, but a lot of people wouldn't & that makes it worse than if they were wearing a golf shirt in the first place. I understand where they were trying to go by militarizing the corporate style uniforms, and they made them look pretty good to be honest, but they need to tighten up the rules & square up the audience they were targeting with this or it really is somewhere between pointless & counter-productive.

You do what you want, I'm not giving you uniform advice. If you want the thing & especially if you can inspire others to wear it right then more power to ya. I personally don't like it for big picture reasons & so won't personally wear it, but I got no problem with anyone that wears any combination, as long as they wear it right & remember what it's about.