I really want to join CAP, DO I have to cut my hair?

[davidsinn]

I agree, not so much with "If the cadet doesn't comply with the regs show them the door." because we as CAP want more members.

That can follow the rules of the organization.

That's the part you left off the end.

[spacecommand]

We have contracts between cadets, parents, and staff.

it has been made perfectly clear to cadets by command staff what the expectations for hairstyle are, with pictures from 39-1..

I get that and we do that but we then we proceed to said "If you wish to to not comply with CAPR 39-1" dot dot dot  then we would proceed to said " with the permission and compliance from your parents we will cut your hair.

First, I'm really not sure what's going on at your unit from reading all of your posts, with that, CAP isn't in the hair cutting business, parental permission or not. 

If the cadet says "NO" what do you guys do now?  You can't use any force for them to get a hair cut.

This is something to be left with the parents to handle.  If the cadets do not want to comply with regulations, then 2b them out of the organization.

It really should never get to the point where you as a unit have to say to a cadet, "OK you didn't cut your hair after we told you many times, we are going to cut it for you".  In reality, that's a cadet you DON'T want in the unit to begin with. 

[abdsp51]

[qoute}
If the cadet says "NO" what do you guys do now?  You can't use any force for them to get a hair cut.

This is something to be left with the parents to handle.  If the cadets do not want to comply with regulations, then 2b them out of the organization.

It really should never get to the point where you as a unit have to say to a cadet, "OK you didn't cut your hair after we told you many times, we are going to cut it for you".  In reality, that's a cadet you DON'T want in the unit to begin with.
[/quote]

I agree I know if my son/s were in and they came and told me that this was a requirement well there would be a heart to heart with the Sq/CC about this.

Also and if I am wrong please correct but most states prohibit a minor from engaging in any type of Contract.  There are plenty of ways to handle a member who does not want to play by the rules. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I agree I know if my son/s were in and they came and told me that this was a requirement well there would be a heart to heart with the Sq/CC about this.

I would be asking a lot of questions.

Also and if I am wrong please correct but most states prohibit a minor from engaging in any type of Contract. 

Correct, I believe.  Could one of our legal eagles (Ned) confirm?

There are plenty of ways to handle a member who does not want to play by the rules.

Hopefully short of a Form 2B.

Restriction from activities, verbal reprimand, notes of reprimand in a personnel file - all of those can be effective.  If the member just decides to quit, this is going to sound nasty, and I don't mean it to, but we didn't need him/her to begin with.

[abdsp51]

Hopefully short of a Form 2B.

Most definitely short of that.  On something simple as this definitely not unless there was a rash of other behavior. 

[RogueLeader]

Hopefully short of a Form 2B.

Most definitely short of that.  On something simple as this definitely not unless there was a rash of other behavior.

Such as:

You will not promote until you are in compliance with 39-1.   

[Ned]

Also and if I am wrong please correct but most states prohibit a minor from engaging in any type of Contract. 

Correct, I believe.  Could one of our legal eagles (Ned) confirm?

Without derailing the thread, I did want to comment that CAP has had cadets signing contracts for decades.  Heck, WIWAC, we had to sign a contract with our squadron commander for each achievement indicating when we would take our tests, etc.  This was a Jack Sorensen thing to help create "buy-in" and motivate the cadets to progress more or less on schedule.

So, I guess the legal point is that minors can sign contracts all day long.  And frequently do.  And it can be a Good Thing in the CAP context.

The only hitich is when people start filing lawsuits to enforce the contracts.  At that point minority may be a defence to enforcibility. (Many exceptions, varies by state, consult a licensed attorney if you really need to know.)

But there is nothing wrong, per se, with a minor signing a contract.

Ned Lee
Former CAP Legal Officer

[abdsp51]

Not allowed to promote, suspension from activities and anything allowed under regs. 

And Col Lee thank you for that insight. 

I think that as long as parents know what the standard and expectation is then this is avoidable. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Colonel Lee offered information I hadn't known either.

Seriously, if it gets to the point where not being allowed to promote (or even demotion), suspension, etc., have to come into play, I would start to wonder if there weren't more serious underlying behavioural problems.

[Flying Pig]

In my experience I have found that cadets who were really attached to their hair get into CAP and before to long, they end up starting to look like all of the other cadets.  Especially once they start making friends and their cadet/friends start saying "C'mon dude, you need to trim that mop."  Peer pressure isnt always bad

[abdsp51]

In my experience I have found that cadets who were really attached to their hair get into CAP and before to long, they end up starting to look like all of the other cadets.  Especially once they start making friends and their cadet/friends start saying "C'mon dude, you need to trim that mop."  Peer pressure isnt always bad

No it's not and I'm sure most of youth we have in the program would rather have their peers get on them than adults.  Saw it alot in JROTC from folks who thought it would be an easy A would get the boot for not following the guidelines.  Granted that's a different prom but adherence to grooming was a major part of it. 

[RogueLeader]

Colonel Lee offered information I hadn't known either.

Seriously, if it gets to the point where not being allowed to promote (or even demotion), suspension, etc., have to come into play, I would start to wonder if there weren't more serious underlying behavioural problems.

His hair i
If a new male cadet that needs a haircut, he won't make it past C/AB.  If a male cadet is up for promotion, but his hair is too long; his promotion will be waiting on the clippers.

[RiverAux]

It may be ok for a minor to sign such a contract, but what about someone other than a Wing Commander signing for CAP?   Even if these aren't meant to be "serious" contracts, what does the fine print in the regs say about it?

[spacecommand]

Yep, but it isn't up to the squadron itself to cut the cadet's hair.  The cadet has to choose to straighten up and fly right or he's not. 

[SarDragon]

It may be ok for a minor to sign such a contract, but what about someone other than a Wing Commander signing for CAP?   Even if these aren't meant to be "serious" contracts, what does the fine print in the regs say about it?

I was in a cadet unit when the cadet achievement contracts were being used, and they were signed by the cadet and the squadron commander. No big deal. There were expectations of performance for both parties, and specified outcomes.

[usafcap1]

Two points - the only members who can sign contracts in CAP are Wing CC's or other corporate officers, further, you cannot sign an
agreement which essentially says "it's OK to abuse me".  We all realize this is not your doing, and your CC is likely well intentioned,
but this is simply not what CAP is about, and we all know which road is paved with good intentions.

We require voluntary compliance with regs to participate, and do not coerce people beyond positive peer pressure or the withholding of opportunity.  Anything else is just wrong and not in keeping with our core values, senior or cadet.

A few times but we have contracts cadets, parents, and staff sign them.

1) I fully understand that but I don't and didn't make this rule.

2) This is based on my previous experience. Our old DCC made this rule and our staff follows them like they were made by God. BUT none the less. . . I'm dropping this topic re "How my squadron enforces CAPM 39-1". Lets get back to the original topic "I really want to join CAP, DO I have to cut my hair?" (emphasis added to correct myself)

[SarDragon]

Lets get back to the original topic "I really want to join CAP, DO I have to cut my hair?" (emphasis added to correct myself)

Yes.

Game, set, match.

[AngelWings]

Lets get back to the original topic "I really want to join CAP, DO I have to cut my hair?" (emphasis added to correct myself)

Yes.

Game, set, match.

+1